Information on the '08 Husky "race kit"

[Creeper]

Hi kids...

I'm doing a little research on the use of FI on single cylinder dirt and off-road bikes... and I have an interest in the functionality (and reality) of the '08 Husky "race kit" that is available for some (all?) FI models.

Trying to sort out the real deal from the BS... from a just for the academics of it perspective.

What I know, or think I know.

The Husky is a close loop system stock.
The kit consists of a an Arrows muffler, an O2 sensor plug and a few other bits and pieces.
When the kit is installed, the O2 sensor is deleted, the port is plugged and the ECU reverts to a pre-programed, open loop map designed for the kit.

This pretty accurate so far?

This kit is available for the 250/450/510 (street legal) models and is anywhere from free to $300.
The kit technically makes these bikes (technically) no longer street legal... but Husky apparently was trying to get the bikes 50 state, "new vehicle" legal and make new owners happy with a low or no cost solution to what ever effects the stock (legal) set-up has on performance.

Still pretty accurate so far?

There is no kit for the 610 models.
Addendum: BendEuroMoto indicates that there is a kit for the '08 610s. Contact him to order or for part numbers.

For those that have bought a stock bike, rode it stock, then installed the race kit themselves... what would you like to tell me about it and about the change in bike performance?

For Husqvarna mechanics that have familiarity with this kit... what insights would you care to share?

As I said, this is purely an academic study on my part. I have a '07 Sherco 510i Enduro, which is Magneti Marelli fuel-injected... so I'm simply looking at other bikes, trying to expand my knowledge of the FI application in this "subset" of motorcycles.

Thanks,
C

 

[Coffee]

Pics any help?

 

[Mike Kay]

Its also worth noting if you do add on the power up kit, the warranty is then voided. Even if you revert back to the stock set up. The on board computer logs the changes, and the dealer can simply plug in and see whats been done.

 

[Creeper]

Pics any help?

Hey Coffee... thanks.

I've seen pics of the kit parts on the Australian Husky website, but couldn't find anything on the US site. They seem to be having "issues" right now.

Didn't know if the kit was the same, or even what that status of the kit was. One of the mags... Dirt Rider or Dirt Bike, did a write-up on the TE450 and the race kit, but I don't think they rode the stock bike, only the kitted bike.

Do you happen to know if the ECU automatically switches to the open loop race map as a kind of "default" when the O2 is disconnected, or does the ECU require a reprogramming download? In other words, is the kit owner installable... or is a dealer visit required?

C

 

[Creeper]

Its also worth noting if you do add on the power up kit, the warranty is then voided. Even if you revert back to the stock set up. The on board computer logs the changes, and the dealer can simply plug in and see whats been done.

Interesting... so if the dealer wishes, at their discretion, they have the option of refusing warranty work on the grounds that you installed the race kit.
Sounds exactly like the "unspoken rule" of the Harley-Davidson dealer when it comes to "race" parts. As long as there's an easy buck to be made... don't ask, don't tell... and everything will be fine.

C

 

[Coffee]

Hey Coffee... thanks.

I've seen pics of the kit parts on the Australian Husky website, but couldn't find anything on the US site. They seem to be having "issues" right now.

Didn't know if the kit was the same, or even what that status of the kit was. One of the mags... Dirt Rider or Dirt Bike, did a write-up on the TE450 and the race kit, but I don't think they rode the stock bike, only the kitted bike.

Do you happen to know if the ECU automatically switches to the open loop race map as a kind of "default" when the O2 is disconnected, or does the ECU require a reprogramming download? In other words, is the kit owner installable... or is a dealer visit required?

C

Gotcha. Keeping in mind the O2 sensor is in the exhaust system before the muffler...

1. New slip on muffler
2. unscrew the O2 sensor
3. screw in plug that is shown in the pic
4. Somewhere (I've not done it) use the electrical plug shown in pic to connect to EFI box
5. That is it - no dealer necessary, goes straight to 'race/open loop' map.

Not 'really' open loop though - still some sensors left in the system, not sure if they are used in race/open loop mode.

• On a separate but related topic is the tuning of the EFI using iBeat (software & connectors & calbes) which usually the dealer has but most people don't
• On a seperate but related topic - although the iBeat is now available from Husqvarna it is unclear to me if that will remain so in the future.
• And there is always the Power Commander which sits between the sensors & EFI box... and the 'maps' for them seem to be different depending on where you bought the Power Commander... big topic

Looking into my crystal ball... might need a section of Cafe Husky for EFI...

 

[BendEuroMoto]

A couple of comments

The power up kit does indeed void the warranty on any part that was damaged from the use of the power up kit. If your dashboard goes bad, or a rivnut in your subframe comes loose, that should be covered. I have seen a lot of people buy performance parts that are offered by the OEM and go home and install them wrong, damaging the bike. I can not file a warranty claim because your played with the injection and blew up your engine. If the dealer installs the kit, and the bike is running perfect, it probably won't break anyways. If it does, most good dealers and manufactures deal with this sort of thing on a case by case basis. It is after all an off road racing motorcycle once it has the kit installed.

There is a power up kit for a 610, I have one on mine. I even have one in stock at my shop. I had to go through a lot of trouble to get them, but I have the part numbers now. It made quite a difference.
I also have the ECU code plugs to activate the open loop mapping so your can tune any of the TE's to any pipe you want.

The I-Beat software seems to vary the injector dwell time through out 3 ranges of throttle position by about 15% in any of the ranges. This should be enough to compensate for any after market pipe. I think a power commander may be redundant.

closed loop injection systems have a problem on light, high performance singles and twins. The O2 sensor will cause a surging effect that you will feel at steady throttle with low engine load. Ask any F650 owner, or 1098 owner. Eliminating the sensor and setting up the injection properly will make the bike a lot easier to ride in technical situations.

Last, in my experience, the power up kit make the TE 450's and 510's run considerable cooler exhaust tempertures.

David

 

[venture4th]

There is a power up kit for a 610, I have one on mine. I even have one in stock at my shop. I had to go through a lot of trouble to get them, but I have the part numbers now. It made quite a difference.

Thanks for that quality answer, out of interest, what kind of difference, where did you notice it in the rpm range? Curious as a 610 owner..

 

[Creeper]

Not 'really' open loop though - still some sensors left in the system, not sure if they are used in race/open loop mode.

Open loop is fuel injection where the ECU takes inputs from fixed sensors and the appropriate basic A/F ratio is applied... within the mapping parameters established by the makers. Usually a slightly rich A/F ratio... just to be on the safe side, and because they don't have an O2 sensor to verify mixture strength.
Think in terms of a 3 dimensional grid... throttle position and RPM being the primary or 'X' and 'Y' parameters, then add temperature and barometric pressure as the third dimension 'Z' variables.

Closed loop adds the O2 sensor and the ECU uses that input as the primary reference to fine tune the A/F ratio. The A/F ratio can be "inspected" hundreds of times a minute and the ECU will adjust the injector dwell accordingly. A closed loop system can provide a leaner, more fuel efficient (but not necessarily best performance) delivery.

This is the cause of the surging that David refers to below, and the comment that the bikes he's retrofitted run cooler than the closed loop bikes.

There is a power up kit for a 610, I have one on mine. I even have one in stock at my shop. I had to go through a lot of trouble to get them, but I have the part numbers now. It made quite a difference.
I also have the ECU code plugs to activate the open loop mapping so your can tune any of the TE's to any pipe you want.

You might want to post those part numbers for those owners that aren't aware of or can't find reference to them. I know I couldn't find anything on the 610, but my search was only a cursory one.

closed loop injection systems have a problem on light, high performance singles and twins. The O2 sensor will cause a surging effect that you will feel at steady throttle with low engine load. Ask any F650 owner, or 1098 owner. Eliminating the sensor and setting up the injection properly will make the bike a lot easier to ride in technical situations.

David

Pretty much as suspected. Closed loop to meet federal new vehicle emissions standards... and an inexpensive, easy to install open loop conversion kit to correct the issues associated with closed loop performance.

Thanks for sharing your personal experiances David.

Chris

 

[jlk_250]

I recently purchased a new '08 SM510R and have some experience with and without the power up kit. You've got the right picture. The price of the kit is something like $399 USD as I recall. $349 is a common selling price. You can also buy just the O2-removal plugs individually. The electrical plug is about $10-15 USD and the mechanical plug is about $45 from what I've read. (The O2 sensor could be left in place but would be damaged by being in the exhaust stream while not being plugged in. If you're never going to have it enabled anyway, who cares?)

I had intended to leave mine stock at least throughout the break-in period but after putting up with the poor throttle response, bucking and stalling for a short time I took out the O2 sensor and replaced it with the power-up plugs. Maybe this technically will void part of the warranty but I figure it can't be good for the bike to be so lean it bucks and stalls, plus the hot restarts don't seem to be easy on the starter either. More importantly, a bike that bucks and stalls unexpectedly is unsafe on the street. I think the power-up kit is -good- for a gentle break-in. It seems much less abusive to the engine.

Regarding the iBeat software, I think that Husqvarna should sell the cable at or near cost and provide the software for free download just so there is one less reason to avoid buying their new FI models. I doubt the iBeat tuning process is a revenue stream for either Husqvarna or the dealers. It seems like a nuisance for everyone the way it's done right now.

Jon

 

[Creeper]

Regarding the iBeat software, I think that Husqvarna should sell the cable at or near cost and provide the software for free download just so there is one less reason to avoid buying their new FI models. I doubt the iBeat tuning process is a revenue stream for either Husqvarna or the dealers. It seems like a nuisance for everyone the way it's done right now.

Jon

Interesting point Jon, and I can see it clearly. Let me offer a counterpoint to your argument that, depending on your perspective, would be equally as clear.

I worked as a technical instructor for Harley-Davidson Motor Co. for roughly 12 years. During that time, I saw the original Magneti Marelli FI system and the replacement Delphi system as well.

Harley D thought long and hard about how to deal with performance upgrades as initially, there were none. What they came up with was a cartridge with a single download in it. The cartridge was inserted into the diagnostic scanner called a "Scanalyzer" and the software was downloaded into the ECU. There were different software cartridges for different combinations of H-D performance accessory sets.

If you went out of bounds and used aftermarket components, you're only course of action was to buy a Dynojet Power Commander and either download one of their maps for a particular combination of aftermarket parts... or, if you had a unique combination of parts, put the bike on a Dynojet dyno with a real time O2 sensor and the dyno operator could manually program the Power Commander to accommodate.
A time consuming process as there could be as many as 120 individual points of adjustment.

I ran such a dyno for a few years and programmed hundreds of Harleys as well as Hondas, Ducatis, Suzukis and other FI bikes.

The latest dynos do the adjusting for you. You have to hit the rpm and throttle position points, but the software reads the O2 and makes the adjustment to the ECU automatically... and more importantly, quickly.

Back to the subject...

Later on, with the advent of the Delphi FI system, H-D expanded this cartridge program to include a huge number of genuine H-D performance parts... from a mild pipes and air cleaner install to big bucks, over the top stroker and big bore kits, ported heads, cams, pistons, mufflers and so on.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that H-D had a tremendous amount of R&D invested in putting these combinations together, and a lot of "intellectual property" as well.

If Husqvarna can market downloads at a fair price, or include them as part of a "package deal" in an accessory install... I doubt they will ever offer them for free.
A "genuine Husqvarna" download, would have Husky's blessing as regards the accessories they've put together as an optimized package.
It's only fair, IMO that they get paid for their efforts. True, once they reach a break-even point on their investment, it's mostly profit... but depending on their time and effort, who knows what that break-even point would be?

I agree with you about the possibility of reducing new owner fears and concerns... but, like H-D, customers that have a degree of trepidation about FI will eventually come around to how straight forward and simple it is and appreciate the potential for options as well as the guarantee that a "genuine Husqvarna" download is a safe, sure and relatively cost effective tuning tool.

For that matter... sooner or later, everyone that buys a new bike of any brand will have to come to grips with FI and the unique, quick, "jet-free" and easy tuning possibilities available to them.

C

 

[Creeper]

This isn't too relevant to Husky riders specifically, but I thought you might be interested in some of my research.

Below is the list of current production, single cylinder, fuel-injected dirt/off-road/dual sport/MX racing/trials competition motorcycles that are or will be (2009) sold in the US... as far as I know. :wink:

• GasGas 4-stroke enduro models (2005-2007 Magneti Marelli , 2008 to present, Kokusan battery-less)
• 2008 to present Husqvarna 250/450/510/610 models (Mikuni)
• 2005 to present Sherco 450/510 enduro models (Magneti Marelli)
• 2009 250 Sherco enduro (Magneti Marelli)
• 2008 to present KTM 690 models (Keihin)
• 2005 to present Montesa/Honda Cota (Keihin battery-less)
• 2007 to present BMW 650 X models (BMW/Bosch)
• 2000 to present BMW F650GS (BMW/Bosch)
• 2009 BMW G450 (BMW/Bosch)
• 2008 to present Suzuki RM-Z450F (Keihin battery-less)
• 2009 Kawasaki KX450F (Keihin battery-less)
• 2008 to present Yamaha WR250 R&X models (Mikuni)
• 2009 Husaberg 450 (Keihin)

Not included in this list are the original Sagem FI Cannondale or any other oddities/rarities/"never existed in production form" bikes.

I may have left out a few current trials bikes... and there may be some inaccuracies based on available information, so if anyone has additions, subtractions or corrections... 'lemmy know.
For example, if someone knows that a particular brand/model has "battery-less" FI, other than the ones I've listed... that would be nice to know.

C

 

[Coffee]

Open loop is fuel injection where the ECU takes inputs from fixed sensors and the appropriate basic A/F ratio is applied... within the mapping parameters established by the makers. Usually a slightly rich A/F ratio... just to be on the safe side, and because they don't have an O2 sensor to verify mixture strength.
Think in terms of a 3 dimensional grid... throttle position and RPM being the primary or 'X' and 'Y' parameters, then add temperature and barometric pressure as the third dimension 'Z' variables.

Closed loop adds the O2 sensor and the ECU uses that input as the primary reference to fine tune the A/F ratio. The A/F ratio can be "inspected" hundreds of times a minute and the ECU will adjust the injector dwell accordingly. A closed loop system can provide a leaner, more fuel efficient (but not necessarily best performance) delivery.

Very very true. I'd really like to use an oscilloscope on an EFI Husqvarna and perform a many experiments I'm not convinced how exactly it all works... Things like changing the other sensors inputs and changing the iBeat numbers while measuring the A/F. I'm no expert at EFI but do like to measure things myself.

And of course what one version of microcode/efi does in one bike can be changed quite easily on the another bike - the next years model, or even slip streaming / changing the code mid-year. But it sounds to me like you already knew all of that.


Toss in some Dynojet Power Commanders tuned by different distributors with different maps and the situation gets quite tricky in a hurry.



Thank you very very much for your posts on this site, they are greatly appreciated.

.

 

[Creeper]

Very very true. I'd really like to use an oscilloscope on an EFI Husqvarna and perform a many experiments I'm not convinced how exactly it all works... Things like changing the other sensors inputs and changing the iBeat numbers while measuring the A/F. I'm no expert at EFI but do like to measure things myself.

If you can find a Authorized Dynojet Power Commander tuning center near you, you can get all the A/F ratio numbers you can stand.
Of course, what you get can be dependent on the skill and consistency/repeatability values of the Dynojet tech at hand.

I did some training and writing for Dynojet, and the range of knowledge as well as the range of interest was staggering.
Anywhere from "I'm hear to party!" to guys that were only one or two clicks below FI engineers in their knowledge of the subject.

And of course what one version of microcode/Edi does in one bike can be changed quite easily on the another bike - the next years model, or even slip streaming / changing the code mid-year. But it sounds to me like you already knew all of that. .

Right there with ya' Coffee. Tuning can be such a variable on EFI... the maker can change code or software packages and alter the entire process and diagnostics methodology. It's in their best interests not to though... at least not without making sure the techs in the field are properly updated and trained.
FI is hard for techs too... especially ones that can't or won't embrace FI and don't realize that if they don't, they'll soon be serving fries at McDonald's.

Thank you very very much for your posts on this site, they are greatly appreciated.

FI is kind of an on again off again personal interest... and as it's all very new to so many people, I think it's good to dispel rumors and falsehoods... regardless of brand.
Husky riders seem to have really taken to the '08 FI bikes... more so than other brands, so FI Husky riders could consider themselves near the cutting edge of bike development. That may be the logic behind my wanting to jump into this here on Cafe Husky.

C

 

[Coffee]

If you can find a Authorized Dynojet Power Commander tuning center near you....

I dream big..... and am in the SF bay area CA... might be a place about 12 hours drive from here that might know something about power commanders... if they are willing.

Might be a little while yet.

 

[Creeper]

I dream big..... and am in the SF bay area CA... might be a place about 12 hours drive from here that might know something about power commanders... if they are willing.

Might be a little while yet.

Might be some closer than that. Many will be Harley and custom shops, but some of those guys can be pretty sharp and analytical in their approach, brand regardless.

It would be interesting to find out what Husky/Mikuni feel is a good A/F ratio for a DS bike huh? Both with and without the O2 sensor.

 

[Ruffus]

Digital A\F ratio meters are available for not too much money, they've been used in the performance automotive market for at least 10 years. If anyone wants I can do a bit of research on the most practical setup for tuning, getting a permanent one thats dash mounted is even more readily available.

 

[Creeper]

Digital A\F ratio meters are available for not too much money, they've been used in the performance automotive market for at least 10 years. If anyone wants I can do a bit of research on the most practical setup for tuning, getting a permanent one thats dash mounted is even more readily available.

They are handy... but every one I've ever worked with in the past was off a bit, or a lot compared to a full blown, dyno system, O2 sensor/software package.

The best ones (and I've not worked with the current premium ones, so this is only what I've researched) all seem to have a 4 or 6 wire wide band, heated O2 sensor... and would be more accurate than the basic economy Lambda 1 and 2 wire kits.

Like all things electronic, I'm sure they've improved dramatically since I've had an opportunity to use one.

C

 

[Ruffus]

I'm wondering, are all O2 sensors the same depth & thread size\pitch?

I'll look into it tomorrow, last time I checked was a couple years ago & those systems were worlds better than what I looked into back in 95 when I first started messing with Auto injection systems.

I also recall that closed loop systems went to open loop mode while idling or under acceleration. Not sure if modern injection systems do the same

 

[Creeper]

I'm wondering, are all O2 sensors the same depth & thread size\pitch?

I'll look into it tomorrow, last time I checked was a couple years ago & those systems were worlds better than what I looked into back in 95 when I first started messing with Auto injection systems.

Good question. As I recall, no, they can vary greatly... but I'm a little hazy on that, so I can't give you a straight answer. I'll do a little digging myself.

O2 sensors can vary greatly in price/quality depending on durability and reliability values. A quick check of some automotive O2 sensors at a online auto performance house reveals pricing from under $60 to nearly $600. Wow!

C