Husky 2t dual sport bike coming?

[wallybean]

While I would LOVE this to happen and would have one I am not counting on it. Think it might be a pipe dream at this point.

- Is there a WB366 kit for it yet?

I am thinking de-bore not big bore with this little sweetheart.

 

[TrailPunter]

There are two Husky dealers in this fair town. I'll go to the one on Washington St. you go to the one around the corner.

 

[Vinduro]

Vinduro,
open discussion and slightly curving away from the thread. Do you think that in your neck of the woods (SE) a simple CrMo 125 sized chassis, carbed, air cooled-non power valve, modern suspended and braked, mid size cc trail/enduro/xc moto would sell among the masses? Are there enough guys that crave that side of the trail rebuild capability and inexpensive and easy mech upkeep?. RN

I like the sound of that for sure.

 

[Vinduro]

They don't need a thermostat. I have run many bikes with a temp gauge and they run in a narrow range compered to air cooled bike. Way better. There is a reason everything is water cooled, not a fad. Even a huge majority of street bikes are water cooled. Show me one real performance bike built in the last 10 years that is not water cooled.

The main reason for watercooling is not temp control as much as it is for sound control. Maybe 125cc and smaller engines can truely benefit from water cooling under "IDEAL" conditions, but since when has offroad riding ever had "IDEAL" conditions. Unless you have a fan or moving faster than 8mph then a watercooled bike is overheating. When water cooled bikes first hit the scene back in 1981 / 1982, you should have seen all the failures at the ISDE. There were NO watercooled bikes that lasted longer than the first 20 miles at the 1982 ISDE in Czechoslovakia. In 1981, at the ISDE , Elba Italy, there were Americans that replaced their watercooled top ends with air cooled top ends by day 2. They simply cut the hoses to the radiators and then literally threw the watercooled cylinders across the Parc Ferme. Sure a hard run aircooled 250 (and to a lesser extent 500cc), will lose 10% power in a MX after 20 minutes or so but doesn't the rider lose that much in strength also ? So a 50hp 250 loses 5hp. Big deal. Most riders can't use 45hp. It has been shown that you can't put but 40hp down to the ground in the dirt. More just means the tire spins more. Maybe more top speed but how fast can you go on a MX course ? Much less in tight woods. Modern Nicosil Aluminum cylinders control heat better than the old cast iron cylinders.

 

[dfeckel]

I can't point to an aluminum air cooled finely finned modern plated/nikasil cylinder what is the closest? .

1986-1988 KDX 200s had a plated cylinder and a rudimentary power valve. It's the lightest bike I own and I love it. Great low and mid, not much to speak of on the top, but a new pipe would likely help there. Funky old school ergos, old style uni trak with hard-to-find bearings and bolts for replacement, inadequate drum rear brake (at least in its current scored-up lining state), but it starts easy, will chug up anything, and is surprisingly quick. I'd love to see this motor in a modern chassis.

 

[Dirtdame]

1986-1988 KDX 200s had a plated cylinder and a rudimentary power valve. It's the lightest bike I own and I love it. Great low and mid, not much to speak of on the top, but a new pipe would likely help there. Funky old school ergos, old style uni trak with hard-to-find bearings and bolts for replacement, inadequate drum rear brake (at least in its current scored-up lining state), but it starts easy, will chug up anything, and is surprisingly quick. I'd love to see this motor in a modern chassis.

Still my "go to" machine in any situation where I'm not sure of what I will be needing for the terrain. Any tough and technical stuff, where at the same time I might be needing a license plate....and Bentley The KDX gets the nod. It actually still fits my definition of an ideal modern trail bike.

 

[mnb]

I can patch most stuff up on the trail on a carbed bike but more electronics makes no sense to me.

Well, it's time you learn. No one uses vinyl records anymore either.

As far as the crappy EFI, it's just lazy, sloppy tuning. The street bikes have had great EFI for years. If the market demands better, the mfgs will have to respond.

I might be interested in one of these DI 2T Dual Sports... as long as the seat heigh it 2 or 3" lower than the current 2Ts, which are the tallest Huskies made.

 

[hammer]

Well, it's time you learn. No one uses vinyl records anymore either.

As far as the crappy EFI, it's just lazy, sloppy tuning. The street bikes have had great EFI for years. If the market demands better, the mfgs will have to respond.

I might be interested in one of these DI 2T Dual Sports... as long as the seat heigh it 2 or 3" lower than the current 2Ts, which are the tallest Huskies made.

I have been a drivability Tech for thirty years. I would say I know more about FI than the average guy but unless I'm going to carry an ECU with me it could be a long walk out of a place like Baja. I have had many FI street bikes and still have a few. I just don't see the need to complicate a simple off road bike.

 

[lankydoug]

I owned and operated an Auto shop for many years. We did everything mechanical or electronic except sell tires so I'm not afraid of electronics but when it goes it's like a lightbulb and there is no bringing it back with a stick and a screw driver. This thread demonstrates why some guys will always like vintage bikes and others like the latest greatest gizmos. I'm kind of torn in the middle, on the one hand I enjoy tinkering with jetting and prefer not having to own a scanner to diagnose a no start and on the other hand I want the easiest bike to ride and don't like breaking down. These new bikes will have to prove themselves to me before I drop the coin but if they do I'm all in.

 

[Ryan]

Watercooling sucks too. It hasn't proven to be a benefit to offroad bikes. Estart isn't a benefit I would want to pay for either. Dirt bikes need to be light and simple. All these so called "Improvements" have done is make bikes complex, heavier and more expensive. Next someone will pipe in and say aluminum frames are lighter which is also a falacy.

Why do you have a modern bike? Ebay is full of classic bikes with the simplicity that you speak of.

 

[Vinduro]

Why do you have a modern bike? Ebay is full of classic bikes with the simplicity that you speak of.

Well Ryan, I have about 70 of the bikes you speak of. It is just that parts are hard to come by for most. I do have a 1987 Honda XR200R that I can race in both PV AHRMA and modern races. I like my Husky WR125 / 150 / 165 . Been great. BUT, we don't have many bottle neck hills like we used to nor the slow tight going either. Enduros have had to be altered so modern bikes could survive them.

 

[Slowpoke]

I agree with some of what Dwight says, but also like the idea of some of the technical advances going on.
At it's core we only really NEED a simple bike like Dwight describes. It would(should) be very easy for anyone to build and sell something like that in a modern chassis for less than $6500.
However, not all watercooled bikes will boil over. Sure some of the early ones did, but the engineers learned a lot & improved them. The 2 Husky 250-310 4ts that I have owned have been very good on the cooling thing. They both put out as much power as any other equiv. bike, yet I'm not sure you could even get them to boil over in an oven.....On the flip side of that I've seen some KTM/Husys boil over just by shining some sunlight on them...
Yes estart adds a bit of weight, but it sure is a godsend on 4ts and also for shorter folks. Also, what is the value of it when you stall in a tight, or uphill section in a race and can hit the button and keep going with out losing any, or very little momentum? It's reasonable to say it got to be worth 5-10 seconds. What's that worth in a close race? What's it worth in bragging rights after beating your buddy thru a trail in this same scenario? (after yesterday, I can say A LOT! )
On the EFI issue, I firmly believe the problems encountered so far have been because the engineers either didn't put enough thought/effort into designing proper & robust systems, or were prevented from doing so by the cost accountants(most likely).
EFI has been reliable for years in numerous other difficult environments. No excuse for it not to be on a dirt bike.

 

[Ruffus]

From what I've read over the years since FI became mainstream is mostly pump failures. Are the any modern bikes utilizing a mechanical fuel pump? Then the only thing needed for it to run properly would be a computer controlled regulator with excess fuel returned to the tank when not needed.

 

[Ryan]

Well Ryan, I have about 70 of the bikes you speak of. It is just that parts are hard to come by for most. I do have a 1987 Honda XR200R that I can race in both PV AHRMA and modern races. I like my Husky WR125 / 150 / 165 . Been great. BUT, we don't have many bottle neck hills like we used to nor the slow tight going either. Enduros have had to be altered so modern bikes could survive them.

Vinduro, do yourself a favor. Go lay out a nice 8-10 mile trail "like you used to" and compare lap times on your 87 xr against your new husky. I ride with plenty of guys from the good ole days and they all talk about how you raced on Sunday and worked on your bike on Monday. Not just maintainance, but serious wrenching. I have been riding for about 20 years and do virtually nothing but change oil and clean filters.

 

[wallybean]

Thank god there are so many great choices from cool vintage to modern rockets. Something for everyone and always the guys that mix and match to their hearts content. I think that DI is coming or the 2T will be only available as used or vintage. Embrace it all and appreciate what makes others happy. In a time when most of us have to deal with so much that we are told we can't do or shouldn't do it is in everyones best interest to embrace new tech that delays another round of punitive regulation and interference. Our favorite sport doesn't really effect our climate/environment in the grand scope of all our excess but we are an easy target for the "informed" and "enlightened" elite both left and right.

I think it would be a cool and popular scoot that someone produces that stuffs an old style, air cooled motor in a modern chassis. I just don't know if it is doable in todays economy and limited market. I will always embrace anything innovative even if it is retro innovative. The more excitement that can be pumped into our industry the better.

I know I am closer to dirt than birth by far but I remember growing up when most kids dream was a dirt bike. Now we are barely an off beat concept on the perifery of a kids focus. When I was just getting started riding/racing it was nothing to see 1-2 thousand people show up at the local motocross track for a race. This is in a county that didn't have 10,000 residents in Montana. Now there are no races in the county. We are a large county that is ~80 miles long and 45 miles wide. Of course that is a dwarf in Montana or any of our western states. I remember going from just another shrimpy high school kid to being able to see awe in all my friends eyes as I buried a field of intermediates on my GP125 a few times. I received prefered treatment from my banker for over twenty years when I lapped him twice in a local cross country event that attracted over 400 racers(19th overall). We don't have any "local" events anymore. Now I am an old, fat, fart that couldn't beat an 8 year old, and that sees the ever dwindling future of a once great sport. If embracing DI 2T helps revitalize this sport then I am all in. I doubt it will revitalize anything other than shift sales from 4t's to 2t's. Unfortunately our sport has been so marginalized by regulation and restrictions that it is probable that nothing will save us from the you can't crowd. Now is that enough doom and gloom for everyone.

 

[TrailPunter]

Well said Sir. I live in one of those areas that recreation possibilities are greatly restricted. Having a plated bike is pretty much a necessity. I've had the BLM, Forest Service, etc.. look at me more in the last two years than in the previous thirty. And I'm slow! Yes, I'm on the other side of fifty. The EFI on my 610 has been flawless. If and when this bike is introduced I hope that they put a wider ratio tranny in it. Do we need this level of technology? In this day and age yes we do.

 

[Vinduro]

Vinduro, do yourself a favor. Go lay out a nice 8-10 mile trail "like you used to" and compare lap times on your 87 xr against your new husky. I ride with plenty of guys from the good ole days and they all talk about how you raced on Sunday and worked on your bike on Monday. Not just maintainance, but serious wrenching. I have been riding for about 20 years and do virtually nothing but change oil and clean filters.

Well, Ryan, My lap times would not vary that much. I have a 1982 XC250 Husky that I would race anytime against anybody. That bike is plenty fast and handles well. As for the maintainance issues, remember that materials the are used today are much better than they were years ago. As are lubricants. Nicosil cylinders last longer and are less prone to seizure than cast iron cylinders. Oring chains are great compared to old non oring chains. Bearings are better as well as metalurgy. Back "In in the good ole days" as you put it, we had to survive deep water swamps and mud bogs without bridges. Bottleneck hills were also the rule. We didn't have as many events every year but the ones we had were brutal. My modern Husky would not have survived the 1982 ISDE in Czecho. No modern watercooled bike would. Too many hills and bottlenecks. You are being influenced too much by marketing flash. Wake up.

 

[Ryan]

Well, Ryan, My lap times would not vary that much. I have a 1982 XC250 Husky that I would race anytime against anybody. That bike is plenty fast and handles well. As for the maintainance issues, remember that materials the are used today are much better than they were years ago. As are lubricants. Nicosil cylinders last longer and are less prone to seizure than cast iron cylinders. Oring chains are great compared to old non oring chains. Bearings are better as well as metalurgy. Back "In in the good ole days" as you put it, we had to survive deep water swamps and mud bogs without bridges. Bottleneck hills were also the rule. We didn't have as many events every year but the ones we had were brutal. My modern Husky would not have survived the 1982 ISDE in Czecho. No modern watercooled bike would. Too many hills and bottlenecks. You are being influenced too much by marketing flash. Wake up.

In the first part of your reply, you basically made my point. Better bearings, better metal, better chains, better lube, better cylinders...BETTER!!! Its common sense stuff not worth arguing against. Hey, I think vintage bikes are cool as hell and I was raised on stories of old huskys and their riders. Its what got me into the brand. However, if you truly believe that your modern husky wouldn't "survive" a race back in '82, you are the one that needs to wake up.

 

[Colo moto]

This article isn't exactly about 2 stroke dirt bikes, but is about air cooled vs water cooled aircraft engines. Different application, but all the same principles apply. Pretty short, and some good info.

http://www.liquidcooledairpower.com/lc-ridofheat.shtml

This one isn't about air cooled dirt bikes either, but about detonation in air cooled 2 stroke engines. It offers some insight into what could be one reason every performance engine today is water cooled.

http://klemmvintage.com/deto.htm

 

[MikeB]

Reading this thread - and a recent Dirt Bike review of a KTM200 got me thinking about the real differences between a good old KDX200 (the classic trail bike) and the "new" KTM200 (the modern classic trail bike). Either one is quite capable (Vinduro on a ratty piece of crap is faster than me on anything). I love the idea of a modern big bore air cooled 2 stroke but realize that those times have passed for all the reasons discussed (noise and pollution being the 2 biggies). Maybe there's a niche market for someone to produce aircooled top ends for something like the modern KTM300. But for the factories which respond to world markets the future would seem to be in DI watercooled 2 strokes for lots of reasons. A 2 stroke has fewer parts and should be cheaper to produce which should allow the manufacturers to make higher profits AND 2 strokes with DI are capable of producing more hp with lower emissions and higher fuel economy than 4 strokes. Since a modern aircooled big bore is not realistic (I love the Motosportz Yamasuki 465) I look forward to a futuristic small bore DI 2 stroke.