High jumps with an SM 610

[Theo]

I use my 610 only on tracks and I'm not good in the dirt section. The remedy is, first of all, to train and I do it; I also attended a supermoto offroad course recently.
This is not the only problem, however: I have an heavy bike.
Look at this video:

I don't expect to jump like a pro, but I'd like to jump much higher than what I can currently.
Sad to say, with little jumps like that my suspensions almost bottom out and I'm not surprised. The SM 570 -a proper racing supermoto- weighs 20 kg less than my bike and the springs of its suspensions have the same spring rate, so mine are too soft.
Look at what this guy does with a 260 kg Harley:

IMHO, that Harley has just the right suspensions.
I have two questions for you:
1-If I jump higher without tuning my suspensions, I'll bottom out. Would that damage the bike?
2-Changing the springs should not be very expensive (I can do it by myself both in the shock and in the fork); would I need to revalve or I could just use the clickers?

 

[Borgschulze]

You are also landing pretty much on the flat part of the jump... if you land on the slope it will be less harsh.

 

[glangston]

As long as you're serious enough to race I'd get the suspension checked out and set up for your personal preferences.

 

[Theo]

You are also landing pretty much on the flat part of the jump... if you land on the slope it will be less harsh.

It makes sense, but currently I'm not able to land on that slope at all: it's too far from the "take-off" point. I don't feel like jumping so much. Besides, since it's a slope I would land on a lower point and so the difference in height would be greater.
Maybe I could try to jump longer without going much higher; is there a technique to do that (without scrubbing)?

 

[Alberto]

In the video comparison which one is you?, I noted the first guy jumping is not preloading suspensions at the moment to enter the ramp.. the second racer does it and jumps longer.. and when entering the ramp, 1st racer must be on its feet, not on the seat, that way the rear suspension wont throw his body to the front, wasting the rebound energy on lifting the ass, not the whole bike.. assuming you are the second racer, you are doing good, but yes, the suspensions bottom out completely.. maybe its just to adjust the settings, not changing springs

 

[Theo]

I am the one who jumped on the seat:

This photo and the video were taken during the same day, in May.
At the end of July, I attended a supermoto offroad course and since then i ride much differently. Now I stand up when I am about to jump.

maybe its just to adjust the settings, not changing springs

I don't have compression clickers on the fork, but I have them on the rear shock. For some reasons I never touched those clickers, but during the last trackday I decided to try: I stiffened the compression turning the high speed screw two clicks in and then I went two clicks in with the slow speed screw, too. I didn't notice any change. The next time I'll try to turn it two clicks more and see what happens.

 

[Alberto]

Thats great, you have improved your riding skills then!

For my TE250, the manual says the following:

 

[Theo]

Thanks, I read a similar explanation on the manual of the 610. According to that, the compression adjusters were fully turned anticlockwise when the bike was new and, sure enough, I found them like that, but the preload is almost at its maximum. I won't modify the preload, I'll just try to modify the compression damping, mainly the high speed compression, because I like my setting in corners; I'd just like not to bottom out when landing.

 

[huskylove]

You need to go faster.

Forward momentum will keep you traveling at a smoothe steady arc coming to the ground even on the down ramp.

If you jump high and fall like you are doing you are making a short arc.

 

[Theo]

This guy at 2:18 is going at almost 60 mph on that jump! (If that virtual speedo is reliable: it seems a little crazy).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPk2rfZYqm8

I'd like to jump faster but, doing so, the arc may be longer, but it will be higher, too, and the suspensions will probably bottom out.

 

[Alberto]

Try to make the jump longer, not higher, you can put your body and the bike in a forward position instead of making it to go thru the sky.. not sure if I explained myself...It will also depend on the shape of the ramp..

 

[Theo]

Try to make the jump longer, not higher, you can put your body and the bike in a forward position instead of making it to go thru the sky.. not sure if I explained myself...

It sounds interesting, but I haven't understood how I could do it. How can I put both the body and the bike in a forward position? I mean: I can put the body forward on the bike or the bike forward under my body (i.e. putting the body behind). How can I do both the things at the same time?

 

[Borgschulze]

It's hard to explain, stand up tall before you hit the jump, then absorb some of the jump with your legs, instead of compressing the suspension with your body weight. You will have to go faster though to compensate.

 

[Aviduser]

You're really not that far off. body posture is but a bit more confidence/skill you can make it.

Standing up elbows bent carry a bit more speed into the face of the jump. Don't try and be a hero, just chip away at it or find some smaller table tops. It will be hard on the bike if you're not quite making it to the downslope. Getting on the throttle as you land will help absorb the impact.

Depends how comfortable you are jumping I guess. It only took me 4-5 times coming up short to be able to clear a jump about that size when I first started. I had years of experience jumping mountain bikes though. It came realatively easy, even though I try not to jump as much these days.

 

[yzrider]

Landing on the downslope is so much ridiculously softer of a landing than landing flat. Proper suspension set up a full revalve and proper springs is also huge. Your making the 610 do things it isnt tuned at all for. Get it set up properly and id seriously consider watching motocross videos. Instructional ones like by gary semics and such. Believe me landing on the down slope and the techniques gary semics offer are what you are looking for.

 

[Theo]

stand up tall before you hit the jump, then absorb some of the jump with your legs, instead of compressing the suspension with your body weight.

Good point: if I diminish the compression, the rebound will be slower and so the suspensions will throw me less high.

Your making the 610 do things it isnt tuned at all for.

I think that I'll tune the suspensions, sooner or later, because you're right.

Anyway, there is a track where i land on a downslope. The next time I'll pay attention and notice whether tha landing is so soft; I don't remember now.

 

[yzrider]

Coming from someone who races motocross. Believe me its not a question at all if the downslope is a smoother landing. If youdont rremember its because it wasnt harsh .

 

[Theo]

Ok, I believe you.
Well, to reach the downslope on most of the jumps that I do I should land farther and, before being able to reach the slope, I'll have to land farther on flat, compressing the suspensions more.
So, here are the dirt marks on my fork and my shock. Do you think that there is enough compression available before bottoming out?

 

[yzrider]

I promise you the money spent on suspension tuning is worth it. I broke my ankle severely with a bike that suspension was maybe 20% too soft. Yours has to be nore like 80% too soft for this application, if you continue to advance in skill and agression the results can and will get bad.

I was unable to put weight on my foot for 5 full months

 

[Theo]

Got it: I won't jump higher until I get my suspensions tuned.