Help, no spark, 2007 TE510

[J-train]

Background: I bought my 2007 TE510 back in March I guess, it has 6K miles on it, I have been riding it almost daily, as back and forth work transportation, and weekend light offroadng on the trails. The only engine related work I have done since ownership is replacing the battery, and changing the oil, several hundred miles ago.

Issue: Last night after work I decided to go for a trail ride, got geared up, hopped on the bike and no start, not even a chug, just sit there and spun. I checked all the obvious, gas in the tank, gas at the carb, fuses all good. Then I pulled the plug, it had a bit of gas on it but was not overy wet, I cranked the bike with no plug making sure if it was flooded or something, all the excess fuel could be expelled. Plug looked great, nice even light brown pattern, no oil or anything. I called the wife in, to hold the clutch in while I cranked and grounded out a brand new plug against the engine block and turned over the bike. Not a lick of spark could be seen. I repeated the test a few other times with different grounding points and nothing.

Plans: I have already pulled the coil, the mounting points looked a little bad, as far as rust corosion goes, I will clean that and try her again. As soon as I can go to the store and get a 9V I will get the ol multi meter out and do the recomended coil checks per manual. *Which is the primary and secondary side btw, the manual really does not tell exactly where to take the measurments*** If those test ok, I guess the next step is to move to the Stator and do the recomended tests there. If that turns out good, what if anything could it be to cause no spark what so ever? The CDI? Here is where I need an expert, give me a quick summary of where there should be power or some quick easy to understand test for continuity (I am not the best at reading wiring diagrams, so if someone could outline what connects to what, and where to trace wires from, that would help) Anything else I am missing?
Also Coil/CDI/Stator, are thye all the same for the TE models, and what years are interchangeable with my 07? I would assume 04-07 are close, how about newer TE's up to 10?

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

EDIT: You'll need to double-check that your Green with red stripe wire is the same as 2008-2010.

You can check the coil, but I have yet to see a post of a bad one. Check the Green wire with red stripe, it connects the coil and other stuff. If that wire or whatever wire supplies electricity to the coil is grounded out, it will ground out the coil. Look for any rubbed spots on wires.

new pic added for a wire found 6-6-13

 

[J-train]

My bike is an 07 carbed, should be a lot simpler you would think. So would a stator cause a no spark at crank issue? I have had no chargin issues or anything like that, bike has appreared to be rock solid. Anything else besides, Coil, plug wire, stator, or CDI that wouldcause a no spark at all issue?

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

My bike is an 07 carbed, should be a lot simpler you would think. So would a stator cause a no spark at crank issue? I have had no chargin issues or anything like that, bike has appreared to be rock solid. Anything else besides, Coil, plug wire, stator, or CDI that wouldcause a no spark at all issue?

My advice is to find out what wire supplies electricity to the coil, and trace that wire in its entirety, if it is rubbed bare and grounding out anywhere, it will disable the coil. An 07 510 with 6000 miles has a very high probability of a chafed wire somewhere.

 

[J-train]

Guys is there any way it could be the switch? I get starter motor power and the bike turns over fine. Power comes on at the gauges(momentary) as well. How about the condensor? What does that guy have to do with spark?

 

[Big and Husky]

I had the same problem as Old Husky Rider.
Big

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

.......I called the wife in, to hold the clutch in while I cranked ......

Take the clutch switch out of the equation, remove it, see your specific wiring diagram to figure out how.

 

[J-train]

If it were the clutch switch or the rt side handlebar switch wouldnt the bike not crank at all? Everything seems normal at both switches. When it is off the bike willl not crank, same thing with the clutch side, pulled in it will crank, let out it will not. I tried decipering that shop manual on how to check the coil, but I could not figure it out. It does not tell you where to take the measurements, only the values. I have no idea which side is shich, or where to measure. Cleaning the mounts to the coil did not work, all the wiring visually looks ok from what I can see.

 

[waserman]

Have you checked the spark plug cap ? I seem to recall another rider on here having similar issues and the plug cap itself being bad.

 

[J-train]

What do you mean by cap? My wire and plug if that is what you are talking about look like they are made as one piece withthe coil. Also I checked the resitiance of the stator, as per manual. It looked good, but that was what I was hoping it was. Still me magnetic shaving builde up (doubtfull)

 

[waserman]

What do you mean by cap? My wire and plug if that is what you are talking about look like they are made as one piece withthe coil. Also I checked the resitiance of the stator, as per manual. It looked good, but that was what I was hoping it was. Still me magnetic shaving builde up (doubtfull)

The plug cap on most if not all of the bikes I own actually screws into the plug/coil wire . Sometimes they become loose and won't fire or the plug cap itself could fail . I believe that some of them are a specific resistance , not sure if this is your case though.

 

[J-train]

Alright guys I am at wits end here. I have tried everything you guys have suggested. Checked the clutch switch, working fine, spark plug, the ingnition switch it working fine, I pulled the stator, cleaned the magnetic sludge, which upon further inspection would only effect charging it looks like as the pick up used the outside of the flywheel. It also electronicly checked out ok. I really wish someone could jump in here and better explain how to check the coil, exactly, not just what the manual says, cause I don't understand exactly how to take the measurements. I did some gee wiz checks and tried cranking the bike with the multimeter on both sides of the coil terminals and when I hit the starter switch, I get voltage at the coil, it shoots to 12V then weirdly goes higher. To me this seems to point to the coil/wire being bad, but I am a horrid electrical trouble shooter. If I had a reputable dealer anywhere near me the bike might already be there, but I don't. Anyone have any more ideas? This is very frusterating, I was loving riding this bike everyday, was after a supermoto setup for the canyons as well. Now I got to get it back on the road.

 

[J-train]

Did some more digging and watched a few youtube videos, specifically about testing coils and stators/pick up coil.
I tested the pick up coil spining the engine with the starter at the plug and got a strong volt pulse when spinning the motor
I then tested the pick up coil at the CDI connector to eliminate wiring all the way to the CDI, again I got strong volt pulst when spinning the motor.
I ohms checked the brown wire from the CDI that feeds into the coil primary and got around 2 Ohms, about what the primary reading should be
I then Ohlms checked from the brown wire of the CDI harness at the spark plug wire and got around 12.5 K OHM just what the secondary winding should read.

All these reading are indicating that I have a good coil and a good pick up and the wiring to and from the CDI seems to be good, my start/stop switches along with the clutch switch also appear to be operating OK.

Have any of you ever heard of a CDI going? I am skeptical to say the least.

 

[KXcam22]

So where are you in your troubleshooting? Most no spark issue are from simple things and not large component failure. CDIs do fail but not that often. I have had one in 42 years. One thing to check is that the coil is getting a spark signal. The coil can measure fine but if it doesn't get the signal to spark it wont. The WH/BR wire to the coil from the CDI must supply impulse power to the coil to spark. Also check the WH/OR wire to the CDI. It should not be grounded. That is the kill switch wire to the CDI. We should be able to figure this out. Cam.

 

[J-train]

KX, thanks for the reply, I am knocking my head against the wall with this one. I cough a bunch of components on ebay as a lot, off of a running bike (supposedly) I swapped the CDI, Coil, Condensor, and none of thsoe fixed it. I have dones some pretty extensive wire pinning and not seen anything visual or electrical that would cause me concern. Short of unbundling the whole wire harness to look for rub marks I am pretty confident the wring is good. But if somethign was shorted, I guess a continuty check might still be telling me it is good. I did some digging and watching instructional youtube videos last night on alternative ways of testing the stator, and pickup/charge coill. Most importantly checking for AC voltage at the pickup and the exciter coil of the stator, those are what I am concerned about not so much the lighting/bat charge. Granted my meter is the cheapest you can buy, so I am not too sure how much to trust my readigns, but through the two wires that go to the pick up coil (green and red) I am getting absolute no AC votage while spinning the engine with the starter. I also am only getting about 10VAC through the black/red & red/white wires. I am not 100% sure I am taking those readings correct, as the video I watched was from a 2 stroke scooter, and he only had one wire for each pick up and exciter. He grounded the other lead to get his reading. The start switch was what I had thought for a while, but I have completely isolated it and hooked leads to the kill wires and the run wires and the switch appears to be functioning correctly. I also pulled the switch apart and it is very simple, and I could not imagine how it could be shorted. Anyway, I am hunting a used stator, and maybe if I get desperate a new one (345$) but after that I am outta ideas. What else could it be, the Voltage regulator? doubtfull, a wire somehwre else grounding fro the lights or gauges or something, (could not see that mattering) Anyway, any and all advice would help. I will check those wires you recomend, i know for a fact I have continuity checked both of them, but I will look real good for insulation damage.

 

[huskyista]

but through the two wires that go to the pick up coil (green and red) I am getting absolute no AC votage while spinning the engine with the starter.

its most likely that ur pick up is bad u should get ac volts when u perform that pickup test. replace ur pickup

 

[J-train]

its most likely that ur pick up is bad u should get ac volts when u perform that pickup test. replace ur pickup

Is this a common thing for these bikes? I took it all apart and looked at it, and the wires. It looks to be a sealled type sensor that is pretty much just a magnet. How about my 10VAC measurement on the ignitor side of the stator, whie I cranked the starter, does that sound OK? Also I have come up short on trying to find that sensor by itself. A new Stator from Husky includes it, but also the fly wheel and is priced at a whopping 342$.

 

[KXcam22]

Your electrical troubleshooting skills seem to be developing pretty good. Also keep in mind that a stator can be easy to fix or rewind. There are lots of posts and video out there. All you need is some magnet wire and a couple of beer. Beats paying for one. Some questions. I am assuming your bike is a 2007 TE510. My electrical dwg shows 4 wires to the stator, 2 for an internal pickup (hall efect) and 2 for the power to the CDI. You mention an external pickup but my dwg shows internal?

If you can see a voltage pulse from the pickup coil AND the ohms measures out correct then it likely is OK. All it does is send a V signal to an SCR in the the CDI to turn on and discharge the stored voltage in the capacitors to the coil. I don't have any info on what AC voltage the stator will generate to send to the CDI, but at starting it would not be huge, 6-12v. A test you can do is to measure the voltage input to the primary side of the coil, the wire from the CDI to the coil, while cranking. You should see a definite voltage pulse there. I am also assuming that you have stuck a screwdriver in the spark plug gap to see it you can get a spark from the screwdriver to the engine case. Let em know. Cam.

 

[J-train]

Your electrical troubleshooting skills seem to be developing pretty good. Also keep in mind that a stator can be easy to fix or rewind. There are lots of posts and video out there. All you need is some magnet wire and a couple of beer. Beats paying for one. Some questions. I am assuming your bike is a 2007 TE510. My electrical dwg shows 4 wires to the stator, 2 for an internal pickup (hall efect) and 2 for the power to the CDI. You mention an external pickup but my dwg shows internal?

If you can see a voltage pulse from the pickup coil AND the ohms measures out correct then it likely is OK. All it does is send a V signal to an SCR in the the CDI to turn on and discharge the stored voltage in the capacitors to the coil. I don't have any info on what AC voltage the stator will generate to send to the CDI, but at starting it would not be huge, 6-12v. A test you can do is to measure the voltage input to the primary side of the coil, the wire from the CDI to the coil, while cranking. You should see a definite voltage pulse there. I am also assuming that you have stuck a screwdriver in the spark plug gap to see it you can get a spark from the screwdriver to the engine case. Let em know. Cam.

I got a hold of baja designs to see if a revind from them for 120$ would take the stator completely out of the equation (plus give me more power, s benifit anyway) they told me all they mess with is strictly the lighting winds on the coil, if the exciter(large winding that sends the cdi the voltage to charge the capacitor, red/black & red/white wires) and the pick up coil they use the same one you send them. So I one or both of those are bad, a rewind does you no good, at least acording to Baja.

And I was able to get 10VAC at the exciter/CDI capacitor charge winding of the stator. (red/black & red/white winding). Now the pick up coil, the little small magnetic sensor with the red & green wire, I could not get anything. It made a lot more sense to me when I pulled the stator and looked at it, to put a visual to the different wire lead colors and what they do. I do feel like I definatly grasp the concept of what all the parts of the ingnition system do now and how they relate to each other. I have a real bad fear though, I am going to end up spending all this mony replacing all the parts that I suspect and really can not prove they are good/bad and then it's going to be a damn broke or grounded wire somwhere even though I have already checked and double checked the wiring, it could be hiding somewhere tricky.

 

[J-train]

Oh and I have tried a couple different spark plugs grounded to the case and not even a hint of spark any time. I also did try to test the brown/white wire going to the coil primary from the CDI on the primary size. I measured the volts at it when cranking and got nothing. I think I was in VDC<so I will go check it again in VAC just to double check