HELP Need Transmission Thrust Washer

[MATPOC]

wrote about it on few threads, hoping new thread title may get more exposure.

I got a missing Thrust Washer, part NLA (no longer available) and what I got as replacement just doesn't seem right: OD too small, material is soft and gold plated, so not hardened like the rest of transmission parts.

part # 1513 71401

#11 on a diagram


Anyone parting a bike out? Maybe someone rebuilding their motor can measure it up so I can make one?

 

[Rotax_655]

wrote about it on few threads, hoping new thread title may get more exposure.

I got a missing Thrust Washer, part NLA (no longer available) and what I got as replacement just doesn't seem right: OD too small, material is soft and gold plated, so not hardened like the rest of transmission parts.

part # 1513 71401

#11 on a diagram


Anyone parting a bike out? Maybe someone rebuilding their motor can measure it up so I can make one?

See if these measures can help you

 

[mg94]

That made me laugh. One guy desperate because part is NLA, the other turns up with a bucket of them lol

 

[MATPOC]

I had a guy in Spain contact the dealer and they said NO... Rotax, how do I get my hands on it?

 

[Rotax_655]

there are at least 5 online vendors that give them available.
why do not you take her from one of them?

 

[MATPOC]

there are at least 5 online vendors that give them available.
why do not you take her from one of them?

I have tried searching for this part number and found nothing, maybe they are EU vendors and Google does not show them to the Yanks?

 

[MATPOC]

Can you share any links? All I find is links to parts catalogues, big pdf files, no one actually selling.
Tried reverse image search on google and came up with nothing, it tells me it's a picture of tire

 

[Rotax_655]

https://www.motosport.com/oem-parts/part-number/151371401


https://husky-shop24.de/Husqvarna-Red-Ersatzteile-151371401-Scheibe-Getriebewelle-570-04-610ie-08

 

[rancher1]

It is common for online vendors in the US to claim to have or get parts that they can't get or do not have. They just want to take your dollars and worry about it later, after you wait several weeks they say sorry we can not get that after holding your money and wasting your time along with giving you false hope.

 

[MATPOC]

Exactly ^ I called the MotoSport, they don't have a part but guarantee that it's OEM, I told them that Husky sold me a cross-referenced part and it was wrong, they assured that it will not happen and I will get refund if the part is not OEM... so I placed order, will see what shows up, only 1.60 plus $7 shipping...

Meanwhile a friend in Deutschland is contacting the husky-shop24 to confirm what they have

 

[Rotax_655]

http://shop.italhusky.com/en/products/2004/smr-570r/gear-box-193

 

[Rotax_655]

Number 47

Ask them

 

[MATPOC]

Molto Bene!
Mille Grazie!

The rest of my words may not be family friendly

 

[Theo]

I was just wandering in some old threads thinking "look at this: it's from 2008... I remember when, in 2008..." when I stumbled upon this one:
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/gearbox-help.970/
Apparently, it's a common issue. IMHO it sounds more like an error in the parts catalog and, if the bike was mine and the transmission worked fine before having splitted the cases, probably I would not install that washer.
EDIT: but your transmission did not work fine; I've just re-read and remembered... .

 

[MATPOC]

I did get the part today, will install and assemble cases without crankshaft to see how it shift and if there are any issues with spacing.

Gold one on the left I got from Hall's, silver one on the right from some online place, neither is black like the picture above.

 

[Theo]

I did get the part today, will install and assemble cases without crankshaft to see how it shift and if there are any issues with spacing.

As far as I've seen, usually, unlike the crankshaft, the transmission shafts can enter their bearings without interference; I guess this holds good in our engines, too.
I have also noticed that usually the bearings are not the same for the transmission shafts: the primary has a bigger bearing on the clutch side, retained by tabs; the countershaft has a bigger bearing on the front sprocket side, retained by tabs, too. This is, I guess, for two reasons:
•on those sides there is the biggest radial load
•since there's no interference, only on those sides the shafts are axially fixed to the bearings. If I've got it right, when you tighten the nut of the clutch you lock the primary shaft axially to the clutch side bearing (usually, like in the 610, the RH side one). In the same way, the countershaft is locked, axially, to the bearing of the sprocket side (in the 610 and usually, the LH side), when you install it. This means that, if you are worried about spacing and alignment, for your test IMHO you should also install the cluth and the sprocket, or the shafts will be free to move axially. Am I right?

Gold one on the left I got from Hall's, silver one on the right from some online place, neither is black like the picture above.

View attachment 85424

Are they the same inner Ø, outer Ø and width?

 

[MATPOC]

Yes, transmission shafts float free, input shaft is "fixed" to the bearing via clutch nut, bearing has a plate fixing it to the cases. Without clutch installed input shaft has about 2mm side-to-side movement (I checked when I assembled cases today)
What I was worried was that installing 1mm washer I would not be able to close cases if the washer was not designed to be there, but it seems it fits perfectly, no play on the output shaft (which may be too tight after everything heats up and expands?) Also I have other bikes (Honda) and they do have end-play on transmission output shaft...
Some are located in place by the nut on the chain sprocket side, once tightened it's fixed to the bearing, but on TE same as few other bikes sprocket is held with snap-ring which does not fix the shaft in place.... I remember installing the sprocket last time around I was having hard time because shaft kept "falling in" to the cases and I had to fish it out in order to get the ring in place.

ID, OD and thickness seem right, fits the shaft perfectly, zero play, unlike gold washer that has ID slightly too big, maybe .5mm too big.

As far as I've seen, usually, unlike the crankshaft, the transmission shafts can enter their bearings without interference; I guess this holds good in our engines, too.
I have also noticed that usually the bearings are not the same for the transmission shafts: the primary has a bigger bearing on the clutch side, retained by tabs; the countershaft has a bigger bearing on the front sprocket side, retained by tabs, too. This is, I guess, for two reasons:
•on those sides there is the biggest radial load
•since there's no interference, only on those sides the shafts are axially fixed to the bearings. If I've got it right, when you tighten the nut of the clutch you lock the primary shaft axially to the clutch side bearing (usually, like in the 610, the RH side one). In the same way, the countershaft is locked, axially, to the bearing of the sprocket side (in the 610 and usually, the LH side), when you install it. This means that, if you are worried about spacing and alignment, for your test IMHO you should also install the cluth and the sprocket, or the shafts will be free to move axially. Am I right?


Are they the same inner Ø, outer Ø and width?

 

[mekanik]

Seems to be a distinct lack of information about this. Tinken used to be a good source of information when it came to things like this.

 

[Theo]

What I was worried was that installing 1mm washer I would not be able to close cases if the washer was not designed to be there, but it seems it fits perfectly, no play on the output shaft (which may be too tight after everything heats up and expands?)

Unless someone has some tests results to share, probably no one will be able to answer for sure. We can make some theories, but they will be moot.
Well, my theory is that they pobably won't be too tight because the cases will expand faster than the bearings, the shafts, etc., because the former are made up of an aluminum alloy and the latter of steel. After all, when you have to remove old bearings from a crankcase, if you flip it with the bearings facing downwards and heat the case, some of the bearings may just fall out of their seats due to gravity, IMO mainly because, although they are affected by the heat, too, they don't expand as fast.

Anyhow, looking at the parts diagram you posted, I haven't understood whether that washer will make the gears #13 and #10 working farther from each other (like I guess) or if it will only affect the part #12 (which seems unlikely to me). If their distance is affected, then (considering that in the thread from 2008 that man said that they are 1st and 4th gear) it seems to me that, when you will engage 1st gear, the dogs on the #10 may not enter the windows in #13 as deep as before: have you tried to push them together on the shaft and see whether there is reasonable contact? Looking at this picture:

taken from this thread, you could install the transmission just like that, in the LH side case, and engage 1st gear (IMO if you move the fork with your hand while rotating the shift drum you could make it) and see whether the dogs completely enter their windows. You could take a picture with and without the washer: you could just remove gear #13, remove the washer, reisntall #13 and see the difference. How the two gears of first gear mesh with and without the washer is another thing to check.

but on TE same as few other bikes sprocket is held with snap-ring which does not fix the shaft in place.... I remember installing the sprocket last time around I was having hard time because shaft kept "falling in" to the cases and I had to fish it out in order to get the ring in place.

That's what I usually experience when I reinstall the sprocket.

P.S.: Merry Christmas!

 

[MATPOC]

I did assemble transmission in the left side case before closing cases and it works fine, however while engaging 2nd gear (it's on the far end of the output shaft which is pictured on the photo) shift drum tends to lift (move right) showing some resistance, so IMHO any spacing issues between shaft and shift drum would prevent 2nd from fully engaging and that is exactly what I had an issue with: intermittently it got stuck 2nd and when I disassembled the motor on the side of the road in Labrador I found that shift drum would not fully rotate to detent position and I could not force it in, however later, after I fished out some mystery plastic parts from the sump) it worked just fine once we got it in third (possibly bumping the shaft back in place?) I assumed it was the plastic piece (thin flat half-circle, like half a washer) that jammed the drum, but once the cases got split found it unlikely. Also never found source of that plastic piece, looked like a part of the bearing cage but all bearing cages were metal in this one, so that is still a mystery, where did that piece come from?

missing washer fits between 1st and 4th but it rests on the shoulder of the output shaft and on the other side it works against a brass bushing inside the 1'st gear (closest one in photo) preventing the shaft (and 2n'd gear) from moving right (up in the photo) which is the exactly what would prevent 2nd from engaging.

After looking at the diagram I want to add numbers to the description, gear #6 moves left and engages gear #3 to engage 2n'd gear.
Snap ring #5 (there are 2 of them, one each side) it sits in the grove on the shaft #9 preventing further movement of the #6 gear
washer #11 fits on the far shoulder of shaft #9 and works against #12 bushing which rests on the bearing, it keeps shaft #9 from moving right and possibly limiting the movement of gear #6....
Sorry, maybe more confusing now, it's late night here, 1 am and I have partied for few days now, so brain slightly mush...