All 2st Harsh suspension??

[cometorium]

I own a 2012 WR 250 and I'm having problems with the suspension during all riding conditions.

I find it very, very harsh and where I ride there are lots of rocks and square edge bumps. If I am going on a rocky downhill I feel the forks just bobbing up and down forcefully (pushing my arms up, like a jackhammer) and the bike is very out of control.

On rocks and braking bumps it's the same thing, just deflecting everywhere, not being "plush". Last ride my back started hurting because of the harshness (this had never happened before). Every little hit is transmitted to my body. It's almost as if the oil in the suspension can't move out of the way quickly enough.

Also if I hit a series of whoops at a decent speed the rear end deflects to the sides, it doesn't "soak up" anything, it doesn't track straight through them as it should.

I also tried riding my brother's KLX 300 and even though it's not a "real" racing machine, I was much faster, the ride was smoother, plusher, safer... I'm a bit bummed out because the husky is much more expensive and should perform better.

My question is this: is the suspension really the problem or am I the problem? Should I go faster, change my technique, stop being a wuss? Or should I invest in modifying the suspension? The bike is perfectly set up (I weigh about 80 kg with equipment on, preload/sag is set, I've played around with the clickers), so the only thing left is revalve, which is very expensive for me.

I'm also curious if this is a characteristic of 2 strokes, since they are lighter they are more easily deflected than 4 stroke...?

Thank you.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

Try opening the compression clickers (bottom of the forks) fully and see if it helps. Also, verify that the forks are properly aligned and you have the proper tire pressure.

Other threads on the same topic:

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/suspension-plushness.35005/

There is a ton of revalving info in this thread:

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/diy-tuning-the-sachs-shock.23893/

The WR is going to be way stiffer than a KLX300; it's intended for different use, it's lighter, etc. If you want similar plushness, you'll need a revalve (see the link above).

It would be nice if you gave your location, so that people could recommend suspension tuners near you. In the US, some good tuners who understand these bikes and enduro terrain would be ZipTy, WER, LTR, Solid Performance... and a whole host of others, but that's a place to start.

 

[msmith345]

Adding to that, just because I have experience on both bikes...

In my 2012, I found the fork oil from the factory had the consistency of water. I dumped it out, cleaned the forks all up and put in Belray 5w at about 110mm from the top and had a huge improvement. The only thing I've done on mine is fork oil, springs, and play with the clickers a bit. And it soaks up much more than the stock KLX we have. I road them back to back Saturday on some very rocky, sharp rock terrain, and the KLX beat the crap out of me.

I'd start simple. Look to see if your forks are bound up. Your triple clamps shouldn't be torqued much at all. Try loosening triples up, making sure the tubes are the same height, and then torquing them to spec (something like 12nm for the top, 14 for the bottom I think). Then loosen the axle pinch bolts, and rock the bike back and forth with the front brake on to get things settled and lined back up and see if the forks seem to work smoother. Don't forget to tighten the pinch bolts back up.

The stock springs are really soft, even for your weight, so they shouldn't be harsh unless you have the clickers way wrong or something is bound up.


Did you buy the bike new, or pick it up used? If used, any idea if the prev owner did anything to it?

 

[Motosportz]

My question is this: is the suspension really the problem or am I the problem?

Its your suspension. this is the first area after protection items one should spend money on. If you like experimenting and playing with it and like mechanical work you can make it work well yourself. I have done this many times. I have also sent my suspension off many times. Both good results. If you want to do your own Kyle posted some great info. If not send it to a good shop, i recommend ZipTy Racing. The money you spend doing it will be VERY rewarding and beneficial, make your ride much more comfortable, safer, make you faster, etc. Its the best money you can spend on any bike. Do it sooner rather than later and then kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. The factory sends it with general settings and can not compensate for vast differences in ride weight, rider speed, what you are using your bike for and many other factors. A KLX was built to be a nice comfortable trail bike. The WR was built as a european race bike. Different ends of the spectrum and not well suited for your conditions.

 

[cometorium]

Thanks for your replies, I think I'll first try to do things I can do myself and/or are cheap (clickers, checking torque, changing oil, etc.). If the problem persists then I'll be looking at a revalve. I am definitely not mechanically adept enough to try it myself haha.

I'm from Mexico, the terrain where I live is rocky and hard (like a desert). I frequently visit the United States so I could ship my suspension out to have it worked on by experts.

I bought the bike new and it doesn't have many miles. Granted, I have never checked the triple clamp torques, fork oil...

I'm racing this bike and I am not very fast but guys who are have used it and they said the suspension was harsh, without me telling them previously. This is when I thought it maybe was a problem with the bike. Maybe, as you guys have said, it is not well suited to rocky conditions? I also rode a KTM 300 EXC and found it easier to ride than the WR. Not saying it was better , just that the suspension seemed better suited for the terrain.

Again, thank you, I'll work on it and report back.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

A KTM 300 EXC generally has a very soft/plush stock suspension. It's not "better" or "worse," it just depends on the conditions and the use. Most of them are quite a bit softer than the WR, for sure.

If you want your WR to feel like a 300 EXC, which would work well in some conditions, it will need a revalve.

 

[cometorium]

Just out of curiosity, what is the WR intended for then? Smoother, faster tracks?

 

[Motosportz]

Thanks for your replies, I think I'll first try to do things I can do myself and/or are cheap (clickers, checking torque, changing oil, etc.)

Honestly IMHO thats not going to do much other than take three rides to give up and send it off. Spring rates and valving are everything. You cant make the wrong stuff right with clickers and settings. I have been down this road a million times. Sending it off to a shop thats knows these suspension components well like ZipTy will make drastic improvements, will transform your bike and is well worth it. I have waited too long to do some of mine and learned that lesson the hard way many times. If you can afford it do yourself a favor and send it off as soon as you can. Will make all the rides after that so much better it will all be worth it.

 

[Motosportz]

Just out of curiosity, what is the WR intended for then? Smoother, faster tracks?

yeah with 165 pound pilots.

 

[cometorium]

Honestly IMHO thats not going to do much other than take three rides to give up and send it off. Spring rates and valving are everything. You cant make the wrong stuff right with clickers and settings. I have been down this road a million times. Sending it off to a shop thats knows these suspension components well like ZipTy will make drastic improvements, will transform your bike and is well worth it. I have waited too long to do some of mine and learned that lesson the hard way many times. If you can afford it do yourself a favor and send it off as soon as you can. Will make all the rides after that so much better it will all be worth it.

I guess you are right...

 

[Motosportz]

I guess you are right...

I know it sucks to remove the suspension, send it off, wait for it, pay some money and reinstall but after that is it all and well worth it if you are going to keep the bike for any length of time. Beats getting kicked around and tossed off the trail and frustrated doing what is supposed to be super fun. It really is transformational.

 

[msmith345]

Honestly IMHO thats not going to do much other than take three rides to give up and send it off. Spring rates and valving are everything. You cant make the wrong stuff right with clickers and settings. I have been down this road a million times. Sending it off to a shop thats knows these suspension components well like ZipTy will make drastic improvements, will transform your bike and is well worth it. I have waited too long to do some of mine and learned that lesson the hard way many times. If you can afford it do yourself a favor and send it off as soon as you can. Will make all the rides after that so much better it will all be worth it.

I honestly disagree on this. The stock suspension should not be "harsh". The stock springs are soft and at 80kilos or around 175 lbs, it shouldn't be too far from what he needs spring wise. If it has the very light viscosity break in oil in it, however, there will be virtually zero dampening, which will lead to a lot of bottoming, causing a harsh ride.

If the fork is NOT bottoming, then something is binding the fork, preventing it from compressing. That's going to be clamp pressure, alignment, or something along those lines.

And yeah, you can absolutely ship off the forks internationally and get them revalved at a site sponsor. I have no doubt they will set them up very well for you. But I'd talk to your local racers, who've had their suspension done and see where they did it. Chances are you've got someone fairly local that does a fine job and can get you squared away. No one is going to know the trails and terrain that you ride like a local suspension guy.

 

[Motosportz]

And yeah, you can absolutely ship off the forks internationally and get them revalved at a site sponsor. I have no doubt they will set them up very well for you. But I'd talk to your local racers, who've had their suspension done and see where they did it. Chances are you've got someone fairly local that does a fine job and can get you squared away. No one is going to know the trails and terrain that you ride like a local suspension guy.

The reason I suggested ZipTy is they know a lot about these components and huskys and are near Mexico and I'm sure have valved hundreds of bikes for that type of terrain. I also had very positive personal experience as they flat nailed the setup on my personal TE511 for NW riding which is different than they typically ride. Good info on looking local as well.

As for the rest of it, gobs of suspension shops and spring shops etc exist because most bikes need revalved and resprung to be right and huskys have been long known to be off the mark setup wise for most riders on this side of the pond. Never heard of light break in oil in suspensions. To each his own but after owning a ton of bikes and riding a lot I prefer my bikes to get suspension work and get the most out of them. Best money you can spend on a bike IMHO.

 

[Dirtdame]

I'm lighter than most riders who ride the WR series bikes. I start by getting the right spring rates and making sure that the sag is set correctly. Then I have the high speed valving set up for sharp edges and rocks. Then I play with the clickers to get the ride level set for everything. In that order.

 

[Tinken]

Something doesn't seem right and it sounds like their might be an internal issue within the forks. As far as springs and re-valving goes, Ty weights close to your weight and he typically runs lighter than oem springs. Not sure where in Mexico you ride, but Ty has ridden all over the world and raced in baja, winning the 500 and 1000 races. You can shoot him an email here: Support@Ziptyracing.com, I'm sure he would have greater insight.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

Just out of curiosity, what is the WR intended for then? Smoother, faster tracks?

I'd say that the WR is set up for faster enduro or GNCC racing, whereas the EXC is set up for trail riding. For an A/B hare scramble rider, the stock stuff is probably pretty good. For a C enduro rider like me, I need more softness because I have to ride through stuff instead of over it.

I honestly disagree on this. The stock suspension should not be "harsh".

Part of the problem is that it's all subjective. I thought that the stock stuff was harsh on certain terrain.

If it has the very light viscosity break in oil in it, however, there will be virtually zero dampening, which will lead to a lot of bottoming, causing a harsh ride.

Must differ by bike (no surprise there). Mine had fairly normal weight oil in it, and the valving was definitely stiffer than I wanted.

And yeah, you can absolutely ship off the forks internationally and get them revalved at a site sponsor. I have no doubt they will set them up very well for you. But I'd talk to your local racers, who've had their suspension done and see where they did it. Chances are you've got someone fairly local that does a fine job and can get you squared away. No one is going to know the trails and terrain that you ride like a local suspension guy.

Fully agree. We have good sponsors, but a good local guy is a great option. These forks/shock aren't anything special, any decent suspension guy should be able to deal with them.

 

[dirt addict]

Does the O.P. have at least 10 hours on it? The 09 that I just picked up had about 3-5 easy hours when I got it. There was a lot of deflection from the forks over 8" - 12" rocks when leaning to a side. I made some clicker adjustments, but after about 8 total hours on the bike the suspension has softened up. I did align the forks and re-torque the clamps. What ever it was, they work great thru rocks now.
The rear was under sprung for my weight (195). I went with a 6.0 shock spring, a 6.2 would work too I think....

 

[cometorium]

Does the O.P. have at least 10 hours on it? The 09 that I just picked up had about 3-5 easy hours when I got it. There was a lot of deflection from the forks over 8" - 12" rocks when leaning to a side. I made some clicker adjustments, but after about 8 total hours on the bike the suspension has softened up. I did align the forks and re-torque the clamps. What ever it was, they work great thru rocks now.
The rear was under sprung for my weight (195). I went with a 6.0 shock spring, a 6.2 would work too I think....

yep, more than 10 hours..

 

[Motosportz]

The rear was under sprung for my weight (195). I went with a 6.0 shock spring, a 6.2 would work too I think....

That shows you how far off the spring rates are as stock is 5.2 or 5.4 maybe.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

Parts diagrams for my 2012 says the stock rear spring is 5.4. I weigh ~170 without gear and it is about right for me (based on static/rider sag and feel).