Fuel range and capacity etc - TE450

[rockdancer]

the lambda sensor was removed

Ive tried connecting the Ibeat to see if it can do a fault diagnosis but it goes online for a few seconds and then disconnects . It says you have to close and restart tool but that doesn't seem to help . Using same port as previous time but not sure if bike needs to be running .

 

[268fords]

It sounds like a wiring problem. I would recommend removing the tank and check your entire wiring harness for chafing or broken wires. The harnesses on these bikes are known weak points.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

your problem seems to have morphed into a "not running- fueling?" issue; as opposed to the original "fuel range, capacity, rich?" question.

one thing at a time. make small, incremental changes that are called for.

use your old fuel pump plugged in to the wiring harness to confirm the wiring; and starting fluid will confirm you have a fueling issue.

once you get it running, set the idle back to where it should be (1900-2200rpm probably).

then concentrate on your richness/mileage issue.

 

[rockdancer]

No these 450s are different to newer 310s - the fuel pump has to prime when you turn on the ignition or its not starting .
The old pump is tested as dead . The new pump doesnt seem to be getting power to it . I am not sure where the relay is or a fuse that relates to this function
The wires look ok from what I can see and Ive exposed but the way they built these was ridiculous the wires have no protection . I knew this was a common issue

 

[Trenchcoat85]

No these 450s are different to newer 310s - the fuel pump has to prime when you turn on the ignition or its not starting .
The old pump is tested as dead . The new pump doesnt seem to be getting power to it . I am not sure where the relay is or a fuse that relates to this function
The wires look ok from what I can see and Ive exposed but the way they built these was ridiculous the wires have no protection . I knew this was a common issue

it may be different pump setup but it's the same operating theory, so in that regard they're the same. Do you think an xlite doesn't need fuel pressure to start? BTW, I have your exact same pump sitting on my bench, just to play with. And I have.

use 12 volts to each pump to confirm their state (just a short 3-second run; don't power it indefinitely) 'cause 2 bad pumps would raise an eyebrow or two (IOW, are you sure the old pump is "dead"? asking questions about relays or fuses makes your statement ambiguous). The bike WAS running when you started this thread... now it's not; the demarcation seems to be when you installed a new fuel pump.

Also, you need not remove the installed pump from the tank to run this test (and if it does pass this test- try starting the bike up while you have power hooked to the pump).

and yes, wiring has been a problem. A hard inspection for issues is needed- especially where the loom rides on the frame. Gotta look close; wiring problems sometimes are almost pin-prick size. A voltmeter is nice, too.

starting fluid will still confirm if you have a fueling issue- assuming you still have spark. do you?

it might be time to bring in another set of eyeballs.

good luck.

 

[rockdancer]

Ok you missed a bit of the post or it wasn't clear. It died in the bush and after that I investigated and found pump isn't priming . ( When stuck in the bush I did check plug and it was dry and there was spark ).
I knew when it wasn't priming the pump when ignition turning on as I couldn't hear it .
The old pump isn't running when connected to a 12v battery .
I bought a new pump and the new one is running ok but not when connected to bike.
Doesn't seemed to be any power coming from connection under tank .

There was some rubbing of insulation tape around wires near the radiatior . Will keep looking .

​

 

[Oldscool]

Please forgive me if I've missed this, have you checked the fuses? A failed pump could overload the system and blow a fuse.

 

[rockdancer]

yes mate I have checked them - will do again

I am not sure how to check the relays that sit under tank . 4 pins - resistance between which ones. I tried swapping them over and no difference.
Ive found some info on relay check here

https://husqvarnaoutlet.com/repair_...bR7mhk6pIDdXaqszMXAc87HDCxaV1qGH9cceRQrFGjZdc

 

[Oldscool]

Relay check
Remove the saddle and the the fuel tank as shown on pages E.15-E.23. Remove the relays (1) located on the frame, R.H. side (no. 1) and L.H. side (no. 2).
A: set the meter on "Impedance" position and check that the exciter coil functions properly; the value will have to be: 80 Ohm (+/- 10%) at 20°C.
B: set then the meter on "Continuity" position and check that the circuit is open.
1
C: using a 12V stabilized feeler for the coil and check that the circuit is closed.

Above is an extract from 2010 te310 / te450 / te510 w/shop manual
Can't copy the pic so here's a description ......with the clip side of the relay to the top the lhs contacts are main power switched (test B &C), the rhs is the switching (test A)

 

[Oldscool]

These are from swm rs500 manual but hopefully it helps.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Ok you missed a bit of the post or it wasn't clear. It died in the bush and after that I investigated and found pump isn't priming . ( When stuck in the bush I did check plug and it was dry and there was spark ).
I knew when it wasn't priming the pump when ignition turning on as I couldn't hear it .
The old pump isn't running when connected to a 12v battery .
I bought a new pump and the new one is running ok but not when connected to bike.
Doesn't seemed to be any power coming from connection under tank .

There was some rubbing of insulation tape around wires near the radiatior . Will keep looking .

​

how did the new pump work when you hooked 12v to while it was in the tank? And did you try to start the bike (if the pump was running)?

how did the starting fluid work out for you?



what i'm giving you are not fixes... they're diagnostics. they let you zero in on the problem. it's very hard to throw parts at a problem and have it get fixed unless you've done some diagnostics.

btw, if you've swapped relays and nothing changed, you can be fairly confident your problem is not a relay itself.

 

[rockdancer]

Ive tested it out of the tank in the assembly in accordance with the manual

It doesn't work when connected to the bike

I am not going to try starting fluid as I know its the pump power supply . Its not priming when hooked up to bike . I just don't know what part of the system is the cause of lack of power to the pump connection.

I tried starter fluid 6 months ago when I had the issue with a disconnected fuel pump pipe and it didn't work - wouldnt start .. When I found and fixed the disconnected fuel pipe in the tank it ran fine.
Don t get me wrong -I do appreciate your help trenchcoat

I am pulling the whole harness off the bike .

Thanks for the wiring diagram Oldscool its the same as the Husqvarna one bit with a bit more info
It doesn't seem to be many wires that actually relate to this issue but I am no electrical guy . The bike has done only 400 miles .

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Ive tested it out of the tank in the assembly in accordance with the manual

It doesn't work when connected to the bike

I am not going to try starting fluid as I know its the pump power supply . Its not priming when hooked up to bike . I just don't know what part of the system is the cause of lack of power to the pump connection.

I tried starter fluid 6 months ago when I had the issue with a disconnected fuel pump pipe and it didn't work - wouldnt start .. When I found and fixed the disconnected fuel pipe in the tank it ran fine.
Don t get me wrong -I do appreciate your help trenchcoat

I am pulling the whole harness off the bike .

Thanks for the wiring diagram Oldscool its the same as the Husqvarna one bit with a bit more info
It doesn't seem to be many wires that actually relate to this issue but I am no electrical guy . The bike has done only 400 miles .

 

[rockdancer]

Used contact cleaner on all the connections on the harness and connected it up and that seems to have fixed the power issue to fuel pump connection . The bikes running again.
Not running great though . Not sure where the issue was .
However it was getting hard to start before pump failed and still seems to be that way . Doing a fair bit of backfiring too. I thought it was just the change I made with Ibeat but not so sure .

What does the little silver cannister do ? The black wire connected to it has a small perforation in the rubber and wires are visible . It must have happened when I pulled the pump out -as the new tank has a tighter fit.
Is this a possible issue ? Not sure how it would be fixed

 

[Trenchcoat85]

What does the little silver cannister do ?

that's the thermistor for the low fuel-level indicator.

Also- I don't think that the wire perforation is too big of a deal. However, both those wires fatigue; it might be good to put a zip-ty around them to keep them from bouncing around and breaking. Actually, zip-ty all those wires together.

I don't think your fuel hose & filter are stock (which may be a good thing).

 

[rockdancer]

Ok thanks - yeh I did zip tie them later . I put new hose and filter on

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Ok thanks - yeh I did zip tie them later . I put new hose and filter on

if you start having problems in about a year, think about pulling the pump and checking if you need submersible fuel hose. Some stuff breaks down fast.

BTW, if it's not destroyed, keep your stock hose on the shelf (that is, if the hose was stock- it's smooth and hard to work with).

 

[rockdancer]

Ok thanks . I did use the proper type of hose.
If I get a year without another issue I' d be very happy

I added some split corrugated plastic covering to cable harness

Ive had to go back to original rich CO settings ( 110, 110, 105 ) to avoid backfiring - will need to test ride it to see if its running ok

 

[R_Little]

Make sure that filter is not clogged or even split at the seam letting pressure out.

That looks like an aftermarket fuel pump too.

Buy another ebay cheap pump and see if it runs differently?

 

[rockdancer]

Its a new filter and that's a new quantum pump

Its running ok now with rich settings again . No back fires. Doesn't have great power though.

If I keep the bike I would think about changing to a carb . Crazy ? Might need to get a wrecker TC or TXC and take whats needed ..

I am not sure if the TC cdi would run the TE too well though