Fuel range and capacity etc - TE450

[rockdancer]

Hi people
I have a TE450 2010 . I notice that when the bike is stalling due to low fuel there is still around 1200 mils of fuel left in the tank
Is there anyway of getting better use of this fuel by changing anything on the fuel pump?

Bike seems to run well but ​

I am not happy with the fuel economy - getting 40 kilometres from the tank in hard enduro style riding .

Ive read that the temp sensor can make it run rich if its not working .
Is there a way testing the temperature sensor ? Resistance?
Can you just remove it ? Does coolant come out ?

I see that a few people have changed fuel pumps - one was a Ducati that was slightly bigger than holder and another one that I'm not sure of the brand or quality - is there a recommended fuel pump that is tried and tested ?
thanks

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Sounds like your pump is working but may have been jolted loose from its "saddle" or holder maybe?

How much gas do you put in after 40km? 4liters?-I don't know if you have a huge problem... kinda rich (and the pump is up). 8 liters?- something is way wrong with your state of tune.... w-a-a-a-a-y rich; but your pump is probably fine, though.

CTS might be a good guess. the test isn't robust (1500-2K ohms ambient temp, 1000 ohms as it warms up, maybe less than 500 ohms hot. you cant have power to the CTS during resistance measurements) but the sensor is so cheap that most people throw a new one in ($20US).

 

[R_Little]

If you have the stock 2 gal tank. then the fuel pump takes about .2 gal space leaving about 1.8 Gal gas capacity. Like Trench says you can check to see if the pump has crept out of it's holder, but 1200 ml of fuel left when the pump runs dry seems about right to me. I figured there was about only 1.5 gal usable capacity in those tanks with F.I.

Now the 40km per tank mileage is a problem. I only owned the x-lite 250 and 310 with the same Mikuni FI and I get an easy 40-60km per gallon in mostly single track.
OTOH, if you are really riding "hard enduro" in 1st and 2nd gear all day, I can be normal.

Check the pump for proper placement and if it is okay, use I-beat to look for faults.

The 2010 TE450 is generally reliable.

 

[rockdancer]

It took 6 litres to fill it back up . Its a 7.2 litre tank so with pump etc that does sound about right .
I put a litre in on the trail - In total I used 7 litres for 50 kilometres
There was a lot of wheel spinning and swearing .

The fuel pump is tied on with plastic ties . ​

​

CTS - Can you test the resistance with it on the bike ?​

​

The spark plug looks ok​

Not sure what symptoms of running rich would be​

​

Its hard for me to get an Ibeat hooked up as local dealer doesn't do it due to cost of licence.
I know you can download it free and get a wire etc so I may have to do that at some point if its worth while doing

Ill ride it again and carry two litres of fuel

One good thing was the 450 was great on the hills with a soft tyre . I think a few ktm riders that were a bit dubious of the husky were impressed .
Hopefully R little you are right but I don't want to say they are reliable yet .

 

[Trenchcoat85]

cts: yeah, just unplug it to measure the resistance. [hell, just unplug it on a warm bike to see if it runs the same. yes? bad cts] but like i said- the test is not too robust. It can pass and still be bad. The black sensors may be more suspect than the white ones. insert your racial profiling joke here, I guess. but most people just slap a new cts in.

your tank may not be 7.2 liters... empty it then fill it to find out. having 1.2 liters of unusable gas seems to be too much to me. I've never heard of this, but maybe mount the front of your tank higher and see if it picks up any more fuel. And 7km/lt is pretty bad mileage (meterage?) but not totally unheard for a race bike in race conditions. my 310 gets 18km/lt or 43mpg doing my old man single track stuff... definitely not in race mode.

running rich symptoms: consuming a lot of gas. smoke. carbonized exhaust (and valves/head/plug), maybe soot too. gasoline smell. if your gas tank is not leaking or evaporating, the gasoline must be going through the motor.

hey, your oil level isn't rising, is it? Clean air filter, open intake and exhaust tracts are a must (IOW, don't leave a rag in your air box or a hardened chunk of mud in your exhaust)

I suppose your MAQS sensor could be screwed up (a suite of TPS, MAP, ATS sensors IIRC) but I've never heard of this. rancher1 is the expert.

the big block motors are have a solid reputation; and they're a bit more of a lugger than the next-gen designs (xlites, 449/511).

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

You say you are getting 31 miles from 1.85 gallons? Thats about 17 MPG. I regularly got minimum 25 MPG up to 35 MPG on my 2010 TE450 and it was programmed rich.

You have a problem somewhere

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

The spark plug looks ok
Not sure what symptoms of running rich would be

.

If the bike is rich, the plug will be black and sooty.

As a test, ride the bike easy on some dirt roads, no wheel spin, nothing over 1/2 throttle. You should get 30 MPG at least.

 

[rockdancer]

You say you are getting 31 miles from 1.85 gallons? Thats about 17 MPG. I regularly got minimum 25 MPG up to 35 MPG on my 2010 TE450 and it was programmed rich.

You have a problem somewhere

Correct on mileage - but we were riding all hills and single track . Logs etc . 4 hours or so of riding . So it could use twice the fuel as on an open trail or road.

Trenchcoat - thanks for info . Lugger motor- yes it lugs well. Having said that Ive had 310 and 2 TE250R x lite motors and these 450s like to rev alright - wicked top end .

 

[R_Little]

You say you are getting 31 miles from 1.85 gallons? Thats about 17 MPG. I regularly got minimum 25 MPG up to 35 MPG on my 2010 TE450 and it was programmed rich.

You have a problem somewhere

He does.

Actually the usable gas in the that tank is about 1.5 gal because the pump does not pull all the gas out.

In any rate 20 mpg is some pretty poor gas mileage unless you are pushing your bike up a muddy hill all afternoon and then falling back down over and over.

Get I-beat and tune it. I find lowering the COs on the bottom saves a lot of gas.

I get 30mpg on single track on my 250 and 310.
40 mpg on 3rd gear single track.

 

[rockdancer]

So I have changed the temperature sensor and riding today on a flowing single track - getting 10 klms per litre or 23 miles per gallon . Better economy but a much easier ride taking less than 2 hours to do 40 ks not 4 hours to do 50ks .. So I don't think its made any difference.
I haven't seen the fan come on - not sure if that's normal . I let it sit for a while .
Might have to see if I can find a mechanic with an Ibeat or try get to get connector to look into it and re-set TPS etc?

Id be happy with 30 MPG

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

Your bike is probably like mine, programmed very rich, which is good for keeping it cooler and for power. I never got more than 35mpg and normally got 25-30 MPG. Open the crankcase fill hole and smell the hole for any gas odor. This to check to see if you are getting gasoline passing by the rings into the crankcase.

If you are not leaking gas to the ground or to the crankcase, its just programmed too rich.

 

[rockdancer]

I think its rich from removal of Lamda sensor . Its only go t 500 k's on it .
It sounds like a few people tweak CO with the Ibeat software . Some still seem to be chasing around different issues . I am not sure if I want to go down that path - guessing . I don't have a local mechanic with it either . The bike runs well and I don't want to cause other issues .

 

[R_Little]

I think its rich from removal of Lamda sensor . Its only go t 500 k's on it .
It sounds like a few people tweak CO with the Ibeat software . Some still seem to be chasing around different issues . I am not sure if I want to go down that path - guessing . I don't have a local mechanic with it either . The bike runs well and I don't want to cause other issues .

I-beat is good to have with these bikes.

The big thing is it is necessary to adjust the TPS setting which gets out of wack sometimes.

I'm about to take my TE to the Hancock ride and proceed to get 48 miles or slop, hills, wet roots and single track out of 1.5 gal of gas. It can be done.

 

[rockdancer]

He does.



Actually the usable gas in the that tank is about 1.5 gal because the pump does not pull all the gas out.



In any rate 20 mpg is some pretty poor gas mileage unless you are pushing your bike up a muddy hill all afternoon and then falling back down over and over.



Get I-beat and tune it. I find lowering the COs on the bottom saves a lot of gas.



I get 30mpg on single track on my 250 and 310.

40 mpg on 3rd gear single track.

Had another couple of rides and not much better economy . Starting to annoy riding buddies and me.

Just fitted a 3 gallon tank and

Ive finally got Ibeat set up hooked up to an old laptop ​

Co was 110 , 110 , 105 .
No idea really but I have re-set at 102, 105, 105.

Not many 450s posted any readings . Any advice?

I will test ride

The pipe and plug didn't look too rich before so I am a bit cautious and don't want bogs or stalls

Idle speed seems high at 2000 rpm . Will adjust the screw .
Hour meter is only at 12 hours for a 2010 bike . It s done around 550 ks .

 

[rockdancer]

Bit of a hesitation now down low so Ive set at 105, 105, 105
Ive set idle speed to around 1500.

 

[R_Little]

On my x-lites, increasing the idle to around 2200 helps with the pop stalls and hesitation.

I lower the CO1, until I get a little bit of lean surge at cruising speeds.

Of course I don't have a 450!

 

[rockdancer]

So I took the old girl out . I didn't like the new setting - was back firing - popping and more flameouts . Lacking power . Too lean
Was better when it warmed up a bit .
Tank felt good and fuel economy seems better but lost a bit of fuel out the overflow when bike dropped a few times .
Bigger issue though - I got stuck out in the bush . No fuel pump priming . Pulled tank off in the bush and couldn't see anything wrong with it .
Had to be towed out by a ktm ...
Checked when I got home and the pump is getting power so I am assuming its the common fuel pump failure . Its a keihin pump .

 

[huskyfrk]

have you thought of going w a power commander ? , on my 2010 smr 450 i went w a power commander & auto tune. elinated low speed stall on decell. runs like a frieght train. feels faster then my 06 smr450 RR factory motard.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

I know you have an lambda sensor, but still- I'd check to make sure there was not an air leak somewhere (manifold, TB, clamp, etc)

good luck.

 

[rockdancer]

Getting frustrated - I replaced the fuel pump and filter but tried hooking the assembly to connection with it out of the tank and its still not firing up the pump . I assume it will not start working if I put in in the tank .
I think there is a wiring issue somewhere.
Any clues as to where to look ?