Foolproof Cam Timing

[Slowpoke]

after 2 days and not needing a hair cut for 3 months, this application is not 100% fool proof, the marks for the cams on my 06 TC510 were not correct, but fear not there are other marks on the idle gear and cam gears that bring everything into the correct spot. if any one is interested i can reply!

Yep-
This is what I was referring to. There are 3 sets of marks on the drive gear & 2 of them are hard to see when the drive gear is installed in the head(at TDC). The problem you ran into is not uncommon & you were smart enough to manually turn things over to verify the timing. Some guys just bolt everything back up and hit the starter button, then start crying when they realize they just cost themselves a $1000 in damage........

 

[ray_ray]

You are making sound pretty simple now with the 3 marks ....

I'm in need of timing my engine ...due to not realizing all the moving parts when replacing a water pump seal ...

1) The first sticking point I hit is removing the cams ... It seems that a 5mm allen wrench is too small and a 5.5mm wrench is too big ... I did manage to get 2 of the 8 cap bolts broken loose but I'm afraid I'm gonna strip the heads on the others as they are very very tight ..

Do you remember what size allen wrench you used on the cap bolts?

Next point: Is it possible to set the timing with the cams in place?

2) I see all the marks and I'm trying to figure a way to do the timing alignment with the cams in place... I have the water pump stub shaft (it holds the timing gear) out of my bike to replace the pump seal ... That is what got me out of time ... With that shaft out, I am able to rotate each cam as a individual component ...

lesson learned about looking before tearing apart, next time i will save myself the head ache. now about the marks, on the idle gear there are 3 sets of dots punched in, one of them has 2 punch marks, this is the TDC set mark, now rotate the engine counterclockwise and you will see another punch mark come into view on the idle gear. match this mark up to the painted punch mark on the intake cam gear and roll the cam into place. now turn the crank clockwise past the 2 dot TDC and another single punch mark becomes visable, this is the exhaust cam gear line up mark.

 

[dfeckel]

If, with the water pump shaft out, you have enough room to move the timing gear/sprocket around to engage the cam gears at different positions (i.e., disengage the sprocket/gear, rotate it a tooth, and reengage it) while the cams are bolted in place, then you can probably retime it without removing the cams. I don't know if there is enough room to do this. The key is that the motor is at true TDC, the double marks on the sprocket/gear align with the notch in the head casting. You're taking a bit of a chance with the cam positioning when you play with just the gear/sprocket. Make sure the cam lobes are pointing towards the middle and slightly up when you reengage the gear/sprocket.

Ideally, you can get your cam caps off and just retime everything that way. I can't remember what hex driver was required to loosen them. Good luck!

 

[ray_ray]

If, with the water pump shaft out, you have enough room to move the timing gear/sprocket around to engage the cam gears at different positions (i.e., disengage the sprocket/gear, rotate it a tooth, and reengage it) while the cams are bolted in place, then you can probably retime it without removing the cams. I don't know if there is enough room to do this. The key is that the motor is at true TDC, the double marks on the sprocket/gear align with the notch in the head casting. You're taking a bit of a chance with the cam positioning when you play with just the gear/sprocket. Make sure the cam lobes are pointing towards the middle and slightly up when you reengage the gear/sprocket.

Ideally, you can get your cam caps off and just retime everything that way. I can't remember what hex driver was required to loosen them. Good luck!

I think I might can do it by adding some marks on the cams on the opposite sides and some trail and error ... I wish I could remove the cams but my tools just don't fit the cam bolts snuggly ... I don't get it ... a 5mm or 5.5mm should fit but both are slightly off ...

What about the cam chain? I'm having a problem getting the timing gear shaft to align back to the center mounting bearing in the cylinder ... Its like the timing chain is too short or tight and will not allow the shaft to move high enough to go back into the mounting bearing at the center of the cylinder ... Is there some tensioner holding pressure on the chain?

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

... Is there some tensioner holding pressure on the chain?

Yes- the Auto Cam Chain Tensioner- (if you did not remove it- or at least removed the middle spring/tensioner bolt).... other than that there are just the guides which don't apply any pressure.

 

[ray_ray]

Yes- the Auto Cam Chain Tensioner- (if you did not remove it- or at least removed the middle spring/tensioner bolt).... other than that there are just the guides which don't apply any pressure.

So if I wanna remove some tension and not create any more ill results, how do I go about removing and then replying tension on the chain?

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

So if I wanna remove some tension and not create any more ill results, how do I go about removing and then replying tension on the chain?

The ACCT is pretty basic but hard to explain- pictures are worth a thousand words- but I don’t have a picture…so here’s a bunch of words…
If you know where and what the ACCT is you know there are 3 bolts. The procedure of checking the ACCT for “clicks remaining” is the proper way to disassemble. Loosen the middle bolt- there is a spring that pushes on a ratcheting plunger. Remove the bolt and spring. This takes the tension off the ratchet- so it cannot be extended further- but does not decrease length due to the notches. Now loosen and take off the other two bolts- this will allow the ACCT to be removed- Once removed the slack that it took up on the cam chain is present- So your cam chain is now “loose”. So now you are holding your ACCT in your hand- see the notches- count them. You will want to reassemble later with the same amount of notches. (THIS is where people talk about how many notches they have left of adjustment in regards to how much their cam chain has stretched. Some say if you only have a few notches left – its time for a new chain. Then there is measuring pin to pin length as a guide- BOTH are indicators realistically.) At this point you can see that if you press on the back where the spring held pressure the ACCT it extends longer but will not get shorter due to the notches- you can release the catch on the notches, which is also spring loaded and then shorten how far it extends. The worst thing you can do on reassembly is install it overextended- which would put TOO much tension on the chain (or strip threads on the head or acct from one of the bolts on reassembly). I usually install the ACCT assembly (without the spring and center bolt) and with the ratchet more loose than I had- then putting the two outer bolts back in- then pushing the plunger through the center hole lightly- with a small screw driver- extending the ratchet-Click-click click- then put the spring in and the bolt- torque is light- go by manual torque settings on these bolts. NOTHING HAM FISTED- I personally go by feel on anything less than 20 ft lbs- I am not always comfortable with my torque wrenches.
So here’s a bit of info on the ACCT for you- its pretty easy and self explanatory when you hold it in your hand once.

 

[ray_ray]

wow ... and thanks for all that ...I hope to leave it in place but even after the gears are timed ... I still gotta put that water pump shaft back in ...

Can I not just back it off a few clicks to get just a slight amount of slack in the chain and take that slack back up after the pump is mounted?

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

wow ... and thanks for all that ...I hope to leave it in place but even after the gears are timed ... I still gotta put that water pump shaft back in ...

Can I not just back it off a few clicks to get just a slight amount of slack in the chain and take that slack back up after the pump is mounted?

it doesn't back out without taking it off (due to the ratchet)- I suggest either taking it off following the steps or don't touch it at all.

 

[ray_ray]

it doesn't back out without taking it off (due to the ratchet)- I suggest either taking it off following the steps or don't touch it at all.

OK and thanks!

 

[ray_ray]

I marked the opposite sides of all the cams with the proper marks. This allowed me to see and align the marks and re-time the engine but the water pump shaft will not go back into its location ... This is spooking me some as the timing chain seems really tight and no movement is possible ...

Does the the ACCT device hold the chain that tight? It's giving the impression it is locked ... But the bike was running with it set where it is currently set ... Do I just need more leverage here to move the ACCT?

 

[ray_ray]

I ended up pulling the ACCT off and this allowed enough slack in the timing chain for the pump shaft to be aligned back into the engine ...Adding slack to the timing chain may actually be essential for this procedure ...

1st test ride after all the fixes was AOK... Going out for a ~15 miler later today for as a final test .....

Thanks for all the help ...

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

On my 2010 TE450, the cam gears for both intake and exhaust are marked on the left side with a dimple that aligns with the plane of the top edge of the cam chest/head.

Disregard the arrow pointing to my homemade marks, while I was making those scratch and paint marks, I noticed the dimple.

 

[oregontrail]

Used the 'Foolproof' technique today to time the Husky, worked great!

 

[Uriel Rosales]

DEAR MISTERS:

HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR CAMTIMING PROCEDURE, IN SPECIAL WITH THE STEP 1...
WITH THE CAMS OUT, IF I PUT THE CYLINDER ON TDC, CAN I DISMOUNT THE WATER PUMP
AND TURN THE CAM SPROCKET WITH MY HANDS TO ALIGN THE TWO MARKS WITH THE
MARK ON THE HEAD????
OR THIS IS INCORRECT??)

 

[starter]

With both cams in it can be done but is a lot easier with either removed, as that way you can "walk" the second cam down from the marks and ensure everything is aligned. With the cams in it is a process of trial and error, making it harder as the lobes acting on the valves make it hard to move everything slowly.

 

[Mxrx37]

Hi I am currently struggling with this, after buying a te250 in a box of parts.
The photos are no longer available could you update them, or does anyone have them saved.

Thanks for the time.

 

[Homerb]

I've just replaced the timing chain and tensioner on my TE630 and the bike is hard to start and won't idle. It seems to run OK when revved. Pretty sure my valve timing is a tooth out. Going to try this method of timing it tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

 

[Homerb]

Thanks dfeckel, your method worked a treat! Cam timing was a tooth out, running great now.

 

[Dexter Ford]

Thanks so much for this. You explain this better than any manual I've seen---the Athena instructions just have a tiny, indecipherable picture, and instructions written in Italiglish. And the factory manual is equally unintelligible.