FMF vs Stock muffler - TE511

[TomGlander]

Just for good times, and to let them roll, I decided to whip up an unscientific test of the sound barrier. The stock muffler on the TE511 is pretty quiet. A lot of posts about this already. You can be pretty stealthy with the stock setup.

I used an iPhone app to check the decibel rating. Six feet off to the side, standing at the rear of the pipe. Bike idling at roughly 2000 RPM.

Here's the stock pipe reading:

And here's the FMF Powercore 4, no spark arrestor, no quiet core. Just the full flow muffler:

Everyone says the FMF without a quietcore insert is loud. Now this is at idle. A 6 decibel difference is "all." But I'm very sure that when you rev the motor, this reading is going WAY up compared to stock.

Once I get the quiet insert I ordered, I'll post back to this thread with the new numbers, again only at idle. That way I'm comparing everything the same.

The sound is much nicer with the FMF. Throaty, menacing, sounds real nice to me. For the street, it's still not Harley straight pipe loud, but too loud for the hoity toity neighbor types. I'm somewhat hoity toity myself, (not really) but I can feel their pain. And bleeding eardrums, nah, not so good.

I'll also try dropping the diameter of the quiet core insert down to 3/4 inch, and make it about 10 inches long. Can compare that new modified core with the stock FMF quiet core, which is a larger diameter. I'll report the findings here, just for reference sake.

 

[TomGlander]

Also, the decibel app is by no means totally accurate. But it is a measure, all things being equal, that does give some kind of reference. And, the FMF had a much nicer air chopping sound. You could hear the exhaust valves opening and closing, a nice rich, cut through the clutter sound.

 

[Daveb511]

For me the Powercore 4 with the insert was still to loud. ..echoed off buildings when riding through town. I ended up selling it and put the stock pipe back on. I am much happier and the bike runs fine.

 

[ray_ray]

Just for good times, and to let them roll, I decided to whip up an unscientific test of the sound barrier. The stock muffler on the TE511 is pretty quiet. A lot of posts about this already. You can be pretty stealthy with the stock setup.

I used an iPhone app to check the decibel rating. Six feet off to the side, standing at the rear of the pipe. Bike idling at roughly 2000 RPM.

An iPhone app? Unscientific? I'd call this this cutting edge... No, bleeding cutting edge stuff ...

And nice work ...

 

[TomGlander]

After reading many posts on this subject in various places, I've come to the conclusion that sound is like art. It's all in the eye (or ear) of the beholder. "Too loud" is subjective. It comes down to what we like. And yes, I know about California madness and decibel levels and laws and codes and ordinances and pissy prissy people and fear of shutting down riding areas and noise pollution and all that jazz. But I'm not talking about any of that squishy stuff here.

I have found that the FMF without any insert is actually not so bad to my ears. It's not obnoxious, not like the straight open pipe cruisers that run up the Cook's Corner each Sunday. It's not "too loud" whatever that means. Like my Mustang with the MRT Interceptor axle back exhaust, it sounds GOOD. So I'm leaving the FMF on the bike, and will put the quiet core insert in when it gets here.

Also, my wife thinks it's a good idea. When you're driving in a car, radio on, applying makeup, texting, chatting with the passengers, doing everything EXCEPT paying attention to your driving, it's good when you can HEAR a motorcycle approaching. She says it's a safety issue. Better to loud than whisper quiet. She hates motorcycles that "sneak" up on her and startle her with their presence. Riding up on a bike that lets its presence be known, that shouts, "I'm here, watch out!" is a good thing. Of course riding skills are critical to staying alive on the mean streets. That's another topic entirely.

So FMF, you're here to stay. You're a good thing. Plus, I've notice some improved throttle response, which is a super good thing.

One more point on sound. Low bass sound is perceived by many to be more pleasant than higher, shrill sounds. The exhaust note of the FMF is very pleasant to my ears. And I suspect it's that way for others, too. Plus the bass "braaaap" is nice thing, too. So many things! I shall now post this thing.

 

[TomGlander]

Went for a few more rides today with the FMF in place. Must say the machine seems very different from stock. Well yea, it really is quite different. More torque. Probably more of everything, except it's so new I haven't really opened it up. Only has 300 miles. Want to get 500 easy miles before I nail the throttle and really see what she'll do. I have a suspicion I'm going to wear a rather nice grin.

Nothing special here. Just the stock ECU with the power up part activated via my switch and the FMF pipe.

Rear sprocket is 1 44 tooth. Front is stock 15. With the smaller diameter Warp9 wheels, the gear ratio overall is really nice for the street. I can cruise at 60 mph at half throttle with plenty of power on tap. Can't say enough good things about this setup, and all the great information I've learned about this bike from the people on this here forum. Ya'll rock!

 

[TomGlander]

An iPhone app? Unscientific? I'd call this this cutting edge... No, bleeding cutting edge stuff ...

And nice work ...

Thanks ray ray. I guess compared to the old days of no smart phones and no amazing apps, this really is cutting edge stuff.

 

[bigmo]

My wife is an audiologist - so sound is her thing - it is also why I am banned from watching Supercross live anymore. I took her once and had to listed to three consecutive hours on how much permanent damage was done to us and the kids...

I actually borrowed some of her portable equipment she uses in homes and ran some testing that gave numbers that folks could expect if being tested at an AMA event. I only had access (initially) to the FMF Powercore 4 and the 1 3/8" insert (and of course the OEM can). The OEM can came in uber low at around 86 dB. The PC4 with the 1 3/8" insert was far too close to the AMA 94 limit. In multiple tests, I got an average of 94 dB. One item to note, is I did not have access to a tach and was "going by ear/feel".

Recently, I gave up on my catless OEM pipe (it was indeed louder at 88 dB) and went with an FMF PC4 once I yanked out of an FMF rep that a 1 1/8" SUPER quiet insert existed. I was really pleased with the post-install sound and couldn't wait for my wife to bring her portable audiometer home. As expected, the new insert was substantially quieter with consistent results at 92 dB.

At some point, I may get serious and get a tach and then put all the data down so folks have a definitive answer to the pipe question. I will say this, however, if you get the PC4 and the 1 1/8" insert, you will pass any AMA test - no doubt about it. I am very sensitive to sound and see it as our number one enemy to trail access. I run this setup without hesitation. For those that have spent time around allot of KTMs, the 449/511 sound exactly like a stock RFS circa 2001-2006 right out of the crate. Those were very tolerable levels.

edit: I forgot the add this part. There is a bunch of science behind power, perceived sound and how that relates to the dB itself. I think most folks understand that dB is a logarithmic scale. For simplicity, my wife tells me that an increase of 10 dB is a perceived doubling of sound. In our little test here, I find that spot on. The PC4 with larger insert was testing roughly 10 dB louder and to the trained or untrained ear, it was indeed twice as loud and the sound REALLY carried. That all being said, going from the stock 86 to the 92 (FMF with smallest insert) is indeed noticeably louder. 6 dB is not an insignifcant jump.

To keep it in perspective the AMA is "limiting" the SX and MX bikes to 115/116 dB. Better bring your earplugs folks!

I wont hijack, but the pipe and insert is money well spent. The bike runs immensely cooler and the weight savings alone are worth the cost. I got both items for < $280 (shipped) at OEM Cycle.

And another semi hijack, the ONLY way we are ever going to get on the right path is through litigation. A class action for hearing loss against the AMA with an immediate implementation for 92 dB for all competition events - not money - a plan. Then drop 1 dB annually until all competition is at 86 or 87 dB. That will do more for trail access than any advocacy group can ever hope to accomplish.

Rant off.

 

[Cosmokenney]

Everyone says the FMF without a quietcore insert is loud. Now this is at idle. A 6 decibel difference is "all." But I'm very sure that when you rev the motor, this reading is going WAY up compared to stock.

That's the thing. At idle the FMF + QuiteCore is pretty quiet. But sharply roll the throttle on, and that thing roars like a lion. Also running in that nice cruising RPM, like you do most of the time on the street, it's noticeably loud. For me, I wanted the performance for off road. I ride the TE so little on the street that the extra noise doesn't bother me -- in fact, I really don't notice it because I'm having too much fun.

On my KLR, however I have to have a quiet exhaust. On that bike I ride almost exclusively on road, and long miles of that drone from a loud exhaust really gets to you.

 

[oregonsage]

6 DBa is a significant increase. We test race bikes to 96 and a 102 would be obvious without a meter to anyone familiar (and the neighbors across the valley).

I never attend an MX National without ear plugs anymore. The noise level is insane. On TV Ralph wont shut up long enough to hear the bikes....so I turn down the sound to save myself from the rambling narrative...problem solved.

 

[TomGlander]

My wife is an audiologist - so sound is her thing - it is also why I am banned from watching Supercross live anymore. I took her once and had to listed to three consecutive hours on how much permanent damage was done to us and the kids...

I actually borrowed some of her portable equipment she uses in homes and ran some testing that gave numbers that folks could expect if being tested at an AMA event. I only had access (initially) to the FMF Powercore 4 and the 1 3/8" insert (and of course the OEM can). The OEM can came in uber low at around 86 dB. The PC4 with the 1 3/8" insert was far too close to the AMA 94 limit. In multiple tests, I got an average of 94 dB. One item to note, is I did not have access to a tach and was "going by ear/feel".

Recently, I gave up on my catless OEM pipe (it was indeed louder at 88 dB) and went with an FMF PC4 once I yanked out of an FMF rep that a 1 1/8" SUPER quiet insert existed. I was really pleased with the post-install sound and couldn't wait for my wife to bring her portable audiometer home. As expected, the new insert was substantially quieter with consistent results at 92 dB.

At some point, I may get serious and get a tach and then put all the data down so folks have a definitive answer to the pipe question. I will say this, however, if you get the PC4 and the 1 1/8" insert, you will pass any AMA test - no doubt about it. I am very sensitive to sound and see it as our number one enemy to trail access. I run this setup without hesitation. For those that have spent time around allot of KTMs, the 449/511 sound exactly like a stock RFS circa 2001-2006 right out of the crate. Those were very tolerable levels.

edit: I forgot the add this part. There is a bunch of science behind power, perceived sound and how that relates to the dB itself. I think most folks understand that dB is a logarithmic scale. For simplicity, my wife tells me that an increase of 10 dB is a perceived doubling of sound. In our little test here, I find that spot on. The PC4 with larger insert was testing roughly 10 dB louder and to the trained or untrained ear, it was indeed twice as loud and the sound REALLY carried. That all being said, going from the stock 86 to the 92 (FMF with smallest insert) is indeed noticeably louder. 6 dB is not an insignifcant jump.

To keep it in perspective the AMA is "limiting" the SX and MX bikes to 115/116 dB. Better bring your earplugs folks!

I wont hijack, but the pipe and insert is money well spent. The bike runs immensely cooler and the weight savings alone are worth the cost. I got both items for < $280 (shipped) at OEM Cycle.

And another semi hijack, the ONLY way we are ever going to get on the right path is through litigation. A class action for hearing loss against the AMA with an immediate implementation for 92 dB for all competition events - not money - a plan. Then drop 1 dB annually until all competition is at 86 or 87 dB. That will do more for trail access than any advocacy group can ever hope to accomplish.

Rant off.

What? What?! What****************************************!! I don't like your idea of litigation at all. I hope that never happens. All we need is more attorneys telling everyone how to live, what they can't do, and how they can't do it. Put me down for 100% opposed to litigation. And this is no rant.

By the way, the quiet core knocks off the edge of the sound. It's a different sound now. A bit quieter for those who care about these things. Sounds really good to me now.

 

[TomGlander]

Here's the bottom line. If you're considering an FMF Powercore 4 for your bike, do it. I was very skeptical at first, and was worried about a number of needless things. I ordered the quiet insert, installed it, and now the bike absolutely perfect. The pipe has a number of benefits over stock -- lighter, better flow, adds torque, sounds terrific, and the engine MUST run cooler than stock with all that extra back pressure from the catalytic convertor and extra clogging.

I don't have anything but the stock ECU and map on this bike. I haven't flashed anything. I was worried that the addition of the FMF would create a too lean situation, there would be backfiring, and the header pipe would glow orange. None of that has happened. In fact, the bike doesn't backfire, engine braking is great, it idles without issue, never been a flameout, a stall, or anything else gone wrong. Just a real solid performer.

This is a 2014 TE 511. Maybe I got lucky. Maybe it's just a solid machine. I haven't cut holes in the airbox. The powerup plug is the only thing that's changed, as in I've switched the plug. But either position, on or off, doesn't seem to make any difference in the power. At least I don't notice anything between "on" and "off" modes.

With the 15-44 gearing, and the 17 inch super moto wheels, the gearing is pretty nice. Could go down to 40, but not needed, really. With this gearing, it's got gobs of torque, midrange, and I suspect top end, but won't know until I've put 500 easy miles on first. It's a fun bike to ride to work, cruise the canyons, and just enjoy riding. Have never had a bike like this before, and so glad I've done all that I've done.

For anyone's benefit, who may be considering this bike, here's a list of mods:

1. FMF pipe with 1 3/8 inch quiet insert
2. Trail Tech Striker computer (this is real nice)
3. License plate hanger elimination with LED illuminating bolts
4. Smaller turn signals front and rear
5. Stainless Steel permanent oil filter
6. Mobil 1 0W40 oil
7. Super moto Warp9 wheels with Dunlop Street Smart tires (harder center compound for mainly upright riding)
8. G2 ergo quick throttle with Jimmy Twister thrust bearing
9. Risk Racing Ergo Wave grips
10. EarthX lithium battery
11. Modified shorter kickstand (no cost)
12. Aluminum gas cap (this is a must. After 200 miles and 4 weeks, the plastic cap is warped and would leak fuel)
13. XF radiator coolant
14. Negative battery terminal ground to frame, and spark plug ground to frame instead of grounding to engine

That's my list. I'm not going to have the ECU flashed, at least not now. If in the future I decide it's something I can't live without, I'll do it. But I'd most likely go with Power Commander module if I'm going down that road. No racing. So I dunno. Jury is out on that one.

Finally, the bike is a real work of art. The design, the way it all flows, that angles, the entire package just oozes sexy and cool. Nobody who's seen the bike has ever thought it wasn't extremely cool. So that's the end of the FMF saga. By the way, I did run numbers with the iPhone app again. Looks like a 2 dB drop. Numbers are numbers. My perception is that the FMF with insert is perfect for around town or on the trail. Really enjoying this machine now in a whole new way. And when I'm ready for the dirt, I'll just put the dirt wheels back on. So it really is a fabulous multi purpose machine, one I would recommend to anyone who has decent wrench skills.

 

[TomGlander]

Forgot to add the skidplate. Got that from George Erl at Uptite Husky in Santa Ana. Extremely well made, and bolts on without any issue whatsoever, using the existing bolts. A very nice addition. Thanks George!

 

[bigmo]

What? What?! What !! I don't like your idea of litigation at all. I hope that never happens. All we need is more attorneys telling everyone how to live, what they can't do, and how they can't do it. Put me down for 100% opposed to litigation. And this is no rant.

By the way, the quiet core knocks off the edge of the sound. It's a different sound now. A bit quieter for those who care about these things. Sounds really good to me now.

Litigation is the only means to a change. The AMA claims it is serious about change and yet we enter 2014 and 2015 with a 116 dB limit? Really?

The problem is that, for whatever reason, the bulk of our sport buy what the SX/MX crowd runs. The folks that care about this sport and even give a flip about conservation are simply outliers. The vast majority of motorsports are donuts-in-the-parking-lot loud-pipes-save-lives kind of guys...just the simple truth.

Banning pipes over 94 dB is a good start and will do more for our image with the general public than any singe action. We are never going to convince the tree huggers that we have a right to ride - I get that. What we dont need, however, is t piss off every soccer mom and Joe Public - that 90% center is our friend and not our enemy. The vast majority of Americans don't care about us using public lands...but as soon as a booming and echoing four stroke crashes their picnic or bike ride, you can be damned sure they will align with the tree huggers. I have seen this countless times.

 

[Tinken]

What? What?! What !! I don't like your idea of litigation at all. I hope that never happens. All we need is more attorneys telling everyone how to live, what they can't do, and how they can't do it. Put me down for 100% opposed to litigation. And this is no rant.

Welcome to Kalifornia

 

[michiganguy]

Really litigation? How about a little personal responsibility, and if you don't like the noise don't go or....wear hearing protection. More laws, the last thing anyone needs!!!

 

[TomGlander]

Banning pipes over 94 dB is a good start and will do more for our image with the general public than any singe action.

Banning them at AMA events? Or banning in general? Who would inforce this ban? Will the police set up traffic stops? Rangers in the desert at events out with testing equipment checking on every bike? Lines of guys corralled and in cuffs because they were over the limit? Events shut down? Bikes impounded? Do the police have anything better to do with their time? I agree with the concept on principle. But the practicality of the idea escapes me.

If the day ever comes in Kalifornia that check points are set up specifically for the evaluation of exhaust note, and litigation has run its course, and the law of the land is enforced, then I'll know it's time to move to Arizona. Or Oregon. But for now, and probably as long as I'm alive, I doubt this will ever happen. Even after litigation, there are bound to be enforcement issues, manpower problems, budgetary concerns, and the like. Just my thoughts, of course.

Leave it to Tinken to make a good joke. Kalifornia. Say that with an Austrian accent.

 

[bigmo]

It is easy to just say no to litigation - but what are the alternatives? What we have now doesn't work...

Banning > 94 dB pipes at all AMA events would work. Then start a process whereas AMA competition bikes (even amateur) knock off 1 dB every couple of years until we settle in at 88 or 89 dB. It is EASY to do. My last woods bike (a CRF250X) was ridiculously competitive and blew 86 and 87 dB at every enduro I raced. It IS possible. It would also make the two stroke competitive once again. Direct injection two-strokes would meet all the EPA requirements while keeping the sound in check. How mice would it be to see smokers ruling the track once again?

The point is, the pipe manufacturers make pipes for competition events and glossy marketing. If the market is a 91, 88, 86 - whatever dB - that is what they will make. As a result, the rest of us will have access to plethora of quiet pipes.

Don't believe sound is an actual issue? Spend time talking to average Americans that don't have a dog in the fight (non-riders and non-greenies) - ALL will talk about sound.

And there is ZERO excuse to run a 116 dB pipe. Even momentary exposure causes permanent hearing loss at that volume. I should not have to wear earplugs so some schmuck can race his Dr. D "Boom Boom Pow" pipe... Each mile he rides closes two miles of trails.

 

[Muchmore]

The last thing we want is the government regulating our sport. The AMA should be setting it's own rules as far as noise is concerned. If the public can't use it they won't buy it, but, don't over regulate it.

 

[Mike-AK]

Banning pipes over 94 dB is a good start

Liberals and their "ban everything I don't agree with attitude" are un-American. You don't like something, fine, but quit demanding to make decisions for everyone else. It's not your right to do so. You want your gov't dictating everything you do, then move to N. Korea. Otherwise, feel free to make your own personal decisions, but don't be so intolerant of those made by others.