FI Fuel Pump Mod

[Vansmack]

COFFEE EDIT: link to thread in the Tech Ref section
http://www.cafehusky.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3373


On the 08 and 09 Fuel Injected models, there is a small zip tie that was installed at the factory to hold the fuel pickup in place. This has resulted in the fuel pickup from moving out of place for numerous people, including me. The resulting condition is that when the fuel level is low, and when braking or going downhill, the fuel pickup is out of the fuel and the bike will stall. Once level again the bike will restart.

Here is the fix;

Remove the gas tank, empty the gas from it. You don't need a picture for that do you?

With the tank upside down, take out the six screws holding the fuel pump on. Gently pull the fuel pump assembly out.

Here you can see that the pickup has slipped. It pretty much pops right out with the factory zip tie.

Here it is back in place. There is a certain way it needs to align to slide all the way in.

Second zip tie installed, nice and secure now.

Reinstall the fuel pump.

Someone had asked about a fuel filter somewhere, it's on the inside and is replaceable.

 

[PALMER84ONE]

Ok, now my favorite moderator needs to put this in a place easy to find for future reference.

 

[Fast1]

be cautious on the torque when re-installing the fuel pump into the tank.

If i recall correctly it was 6 nm

 

[glangston]

What works for me in saving these very informative threads is putting the info and pics into a draft e-mail with an easy to remember subject like Fuel Pump Zip Tie. That way they are easy to search for, available for e-mail, and the pictures don't disappear over time.

So, thanks for the pics. and info.

 

[seredyns]

Thanks for the informative post! I haven't had any problems although I plan to check my 09 310 anyway. Just one question though, is there a special zip ty to use since it will be submerged in gasoline? Thanks.

 

[Vansmack]

be cautious on the torque when re-installing the fuel pump into the tank.

If i recall correctly it was 6 nm

That would be about 4.5 foot pounds or 53 inch pounds. I didn't bother to measure, I just did it snug.... then checked for leaks.

 

[Motosportz]

Has anyone tried replacing the in tank unit with an external Automotive fuel pump? On ADV lots of guys with failing KTM Adventure 950's are replacing them with a $20 external pump that works way better and lasts a lot longer than the hard to get and very expensive stock one. Just wondering. You would get slightly more volume and if it ever went bad one trip your your auto store and $20 and you are good to go.

 

[MOTORHEAD]

If you route your zip tie under the two post pointed out with the yellow arrows and over the center post pointed out with blue, yet stay under that little pointy clip thing, you'll zip ties will work better. You just kinda make a weave through the posts. The little clip lug on the center post keeps the tie from sliding up.

I didn't do that on the first one and it ended up sliding off the top of the keepers. The next time I did it as I'm describing and it's staying in place now. The keepers taper smaller as they go up, so the tie wants to slide off the top. That little clip lug stop it from going up.

 

[Vansmack]

If you route your zip tie under the two post pointed out with the yellow arrows and over the center post pointed out with blue, yet stay under that little pointy clip thing, you'll zip ties will work better. You just kinda make a weave through the posts. The little clip lug on the center post keeps the tie from sliding up.

I didn't do that on the first one and it ended up sliding off the top of the keepers. The next time I did it as I'm describing and it's staying in place now. The keepers taper smaller as they go up, so the tie wants to slide off the top. That little clip lug stop it from going up.

Ah-ha, you have refined the process! I got the zip tie on their pretty tight and it did not move at all, but it will definitely not move if you put it around that tab. I think you can see in the picture that the white, factory zip tie goes around that tab, but is otherwise useless. When I use up this tank of gas I'll revise my set up and the pictures. Thanks, Chris

 

[seymore]

Has anyone tried replacing the in tank unit with an external Automotive fuel pump? On ADV lots of guys with failing KTM Adventure 950's are replacing them with a $20 external pump that works way better and lasts a lot longer than the hard to get and very expensive stock one. Just wondering. You would get slightly more volume and if it ever went bad one trip your your auto store and $20 and you are good to go.

I doubt the $20 pump would have the correct pressure regulation. The TE pump assembly has a excess pressure bypass check valve that recirculates fuel in the tank. The bypass valve is part of the casting where the filter outlet hose connects. If I remember correctly from a eailier test the output pressure is around 43psi. If that pressure changes so will the AFR unless it's in closed loop mode with the O2 sensor. Pump pressure variations from the factory is what probably accounts for different FB1 setting seen on new bikes.

It may be that KTM950's and other use an external fuel bypass regulator with a return line to the tank. This configuration would allow the use of a simply inline pump. Remember, what we call the pump on the TE's is really a pump, filter, regulator and level sensor assembly.

Link to TE fuel pressure test...
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6152242#post6152242

 

[BlipBlip!]

Has anyone tried replacing the in tank unit with an external Automotive fuel pump? On ADV lots of guys with failing KTM Adventure 950's are replacing them with a $20 external pump that works way better and lasts a lot longer than the hard to get and very expensive stock one. Just wondering. You would get slightly more volume and if it ever went bad one trip your your auto store and $20 and you are good to go.

Kelly, I'm in agreement with you on this one as well.

Not just that, but the Husqvarna in-tank fuel pump is one of the biggest obstacles when designing a larger after-market tank for the new TC/TE/TXC 250 and WR/TC125 range of motorcycles considering that they share the same fuel tank.

The idea of a external fuel pump came up when Lindsey at P3 started the WR125/TC250 tank project.

It sounds like something that should be looked into more now.

thanks,
BlipBlip

 

[MOTORHEAD]

Ah-ha, you have refined the process! I got the zip tie on their pretty tight and it did not move at all, but it will definitely not move if you put it around that tab. I think you can see in the picture that the white, factory zip tie goes around that tab, but is otherwise useless. When I use up this tank of gas I'll revise my set up and the pictures. Thanks, Chris

I leaned the hard way. I put three ties on tight, the first time, and my bike started running funny again. Took it apart found they had a slid up and the pump was loose again.

Now I just use one installed like this and it's been going good for a while. Should hold until the ties rots from the gas.

 

[Motosportz]

Kelly, I'm in agreement with you on this one as well.

Not just that, but the Husqvarna in-tank fuel pump is one of the biggest obstacles when designing a larger after-market tank for the new TC/TE/TXC 250 and WR/TC125 range of motorcycles considering that they share the same fuel tank.

The idea of a external fuel pump came up when Lindsey at P3 started the WR125/TC250 tank project.

It sounds like something that should be looked into more now.

thanks,
BlipBlip

For those of you who are adventurous...

http://www.ktm950.info/how/fuel_pump/facet_40171/facet_40171_install.html

and

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315948

"My 40171 has worked flawlessly for many months now. I've had mine thoroughly submerged too, and still no problems"

 

[dags]

the FACET is a great little pump - as a prime/lift pump to a swirl pot or delivery pump for carb`s. It can`t take the place of the EFI pump.

Many reasons it wont work in this type of install - and just to name a couple

Not an in tank pump
4-6 psi (depends on model)
No pressure regulator
etc
etc

you can use alternatives, but remember if it`s EFI you must use an EFI pump capable of around 40 psi & a mounting config that will accept direct replacement.
If you don`t understand the workings of the EFI system yet, don`t play around, if you do understand it - you`ll know just how involved it can be to use an alternative & weigh up the necessary mods vs price of OE or direct replacement alternative brand

If you want to go external, you`ll need to learn about swirl pots, low pressure pumps, high pressure pumps, return to tank by-pass / pressure regs, (mechanical & vacuum) etc etc & be prepared to machine up parts & / or have deep pockets or maybe just end up with a really ugly & messy set up -

rofessor:

 

[Motosportz]

OK. please pretend my post is not there

 

[r6addict]

Anyone ever think of using safety wire in lieu of a zip tie? I'm gonna mod my fuel pump this weekend with .33 gauge safety wire and wrap around the posts to keep in place.

 

[meletis]

Anyone has the fuel pump specs???
Really keen to replace it with an external one, plenty of space in the TE model where the radiator fluid excess bottle stands.

 

[MOTORHEAD]

OK, mine came loose again. This time I used safety wire on it. The zip tie I used before must have swollen from the fuel, because it was just loose enough to let the pump slide up a little. I was able to get two clicks from the tie and added a double wrap of safety wire above it. I bet it won't swell.

 

[jlk_250]

Mine just slipped again too. First it slipped up when stock and I replaced the cable tie with a new one that was hooked on the clip as described above. It apparently swelled up because it was just slightly loose. This time I added two wraps of stainless steel safety wire as suggested above. I don't think cable ties are good choices here because they swell and it takes hardly any looseness before the pump can slip out.

 

[BentAero]

Can anyone see why using a zip-ty lengthwise to hold the pump in place wouldn't work? Even if the zip-ty stretches a little from the gasoline, it still should hold the pump in place.

It's the black one, the faded yellowish one is the oem.

You can barely see the black zip-ty around the bottom of the housing.

By gently pushing down on the fuel pickup screen, the tie will fit thru. You can see just a little bit of light under the tie.

Zip-ty between connectors and hose.