exercise and diet

[WHITEROCKET5.9]

another lil thing i just remembered from my in shape not a shape days....dont take in more than 2-3 grams of protein per pound of body weight, you wont digest it.

 

[jtemple]

another lil thing i just remembered from my in shape not a shape days....dont take in more than 2-3 grams of protein per pound of body weight, you wont digest it.

2-3g is pretty excessive. 1-1.5g and lifting heavy things is the general rule of thumb for putting on muscle.

To put it in simple terms, count calories, get adequate protein and fat in your diet, and fill in the rest of your daily calories with whatever you please.

I get about 220g of protein and 85-90g of fat every day. The rest is generally complex carbs. If I want to gain, I add more carbs. If I want to lose, I take some carbs away. Protein and fat remains fairly constant.

 

[ray_ray]

You guys are pretty impressive here on this topic ... I'll just add you gotta be consistent with what ever routine you pick and stay with it over time ... Just listen to your body and make tweets to your plan as needed over time ... This kind of stuff is the real and only fountain of youth ..

Jack Lalanne said once that the only way to hurt the human body was not to use it ... Jack's gone but he lived a long time ....

 

[Ruffus]

You guys are pretty impressive here on this topic ... I'll just add you gotta be consistent with what ever routine you pick and stay with it over time ... Just listen to your body and make tweets to your plan as needed over time ... This kind of stuff is the real and only fountain of youth ..

Jack Lalanne said once that the only way to hurt the human body was not to use it ... Jack's gone but he lived a long time ....

Jack was an inhumane alien from another era. Shame he's gone. R.I.P. Jack

 

[BignHusky]

Makes me laugh when i see whey protein advertised at 60g per serving. Even the largest people can only digest 40 g in one sitting. 20 to 30g is fine for most people. The rest will make you fat and give you weird bathroom effects. Jack Lalane used to say if it tastes good spit it out... pretty good for a general rule. Although i like eating cauliflower and broccoli raw but most people don't.
BTW jtemple, the DHT was not a question towards use of the juice. A lot of people have spikes in DHT simply from doing heavy compound lifts. Some are simply prone more than others to DHT conversion. Not necessarily the worst thing since DHT is more anabolic than testosterone. Bald guys (naturally) often have more lean muscle mass because of it. The medical concern is that of prostate cancers seem to be higher in those individuals also.

 

[WHITEROCKET5.9]

2-3g is pretty excessive. 1-1.5g and lifting heavy things is the general rule of thumb for putting on muscle.

To put it in simple terms, count calories, get adequate protein and fat in your diet, and fill in the rest of your daily calories with whatever you please.

I get about 220g of protein and 85-90g of fat every day. The rest is generally complex carbs. If I want to gain, I add more carbs. If I want to lose, I take some carbs away. Protein and fat remains fairly constant.

its just what i read and went by when i was lifting and seemed to work from my results.. its been almost 5 years so im sure things might have changed. like everything else im sure someone made money from them saying that 2-3 grams would work lol

 

[BignHusky]

I have been focusing on eating only "superfoods", those foods that are high in nutrients or protein or some other needed element. I use the site below to make sure the foods I eat are high on the chart.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/10352/2
This is the chart for quinoa (keen-wah). it doesn't have the highest Nutrition Data score, or the best Nutrient Balance, but look at the Protein Quality. It's the only grain that is a complete protein, like meat is. Cauliflower also scores high on Protein Quality.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2312/2
Here's asparagus, has a Nutrition Data score of 5.0 out of 5, a Nutrient Balance score of 94, a Super vegetable.

Great site, shows the glycemic index also, very informative!

 

[Xcuvator]

So from the sound of it here, the GNC whey powder for beverage is too much protien at 60 grams per serving?

 

[jtemple]

Makes me laugh when i see whey protein advertised at 60g per serving. Even the largest people can only digest 40 g in one sitting. 20 to 30g is fine for most people. The rest will make you fat and give you weird bathroom effects. Jack Lalane used to say if it tastes good spit it out... pretty good for a general rule. Although i like eating cauliflower and broccoli raw but most people don't.
BTW jtemple, the DHT was not a question towards use of the juice. A lot of people have spikes in DHT simply from doing heavy compound lifts. Some are simply prone more than others to DHT conversion. Not necessarily the worst thing since DHT is more anabolic than testosterone. Bald guys (naturally) often have more lean muscle mass because of it. The medical concern is that of prostate cancers seem to be higher in those individuals also.

Like I said, I'm about as far from being bald as one can get. I think I'm the only human being on the planet with an advancing hairline. I look "bald" because I shave it off. It's lower maintenance. Besides, who wants helmet hair, anyway?

its just what i read and went by when i was lifting and seemed to work from my results.. its been almost 5 years so im sure things might have changed. like everything else im sure someone made money from them saying that 2-3 grams would work lol

Most of those "you gotta have this" statements are perpetuated by the supplement companies.

I prefer to eat real food. The only thing I supplement is creatine, fish oil, calcium glucosamine/chondroitin and a multivitamin.

My staple protein sources are lean meats, eggs, and greek yogurt.

So from the sound of it here, the GNC whey powder for beverage is too much protien at 60 grams per serving?

The idea that you can only process X grams of a macronutrient in one meal is mostly B.S. Your body is very efficient. What matters at the end of the day is getting the right amount of calories and macronutrients in you.

Meal size and frequency is of very little importance.

Do some research on Intermittent Fasting if you want to see a bunch of information that shows that.

 

[BignHusky]

[quote="jThe idea that you can only process X grams of a macronutrient in one meal is mostly B.S. Your body is very efficient. What matters at the end of the day is getting the right amount of calories and macronutrients in you.[/quote]
while everyone is different 60 grams is not only impossible to absorb in a single meal it is also a lot of stress on the liver. again you will see the effects of consuming this much whey protein not only in terms of bathroom effects but more than likely over time also in terms of excess fat. If consuming whey at 80 grams per serving i would suggest cutting the serving in half and don't pay double at GNC for what you could buy else where.

 

[jtemple]

while everyone is different 60 grams is not only impossible to absorb in a single meal it is also a lot of stress on the liver. again you will see the effects of consuming this much whey protein not only in terms of bathroom effects but more than likely over time also in terms of excess fat. If consuming whey at 80 grams per serving i would suggest cutting the serving in half and don't pay double at GNC for what you could buy else where.

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

Specifically:

5. Myth: Maintain a steady supply of amino acids by eating protein every 2-3 hours. The body can only absorb 30 grams of protein in one sitting.


Truth

Whenever you hear something really crazy you need to ask yourself if it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. It's a great way to quickly determine if something may be valid or if it's more likely a steaming pile of horseshit. This myth is a great example of the latter. Do you think we would be here today if our bodies could only make use of 30 grams of protein per meal?

The simple truth is that more protein just takes a longer time to digest and be utilized. For some concrete numbers, digestion of a standard meal is still incomplete after five hours. Amino acids are still being released into your bloodstream and absorbed into muscles. You are still "anabolic." This is a fairly standard "Average Joe"-meal: 600 kcal, 75 g carbs, 37 g protein and 17 g fat. Best of all? This was after eating pizza, a refined food that should be quickly absorbed relatively speaking.

Think about this for a second. How long do you think a big steak, with double the protein intake of the above example, and a big pile of veggies would last you? More than 10 hours, that's for sure. Meal composition plays an important role in absorption speed, especially when it comes to amino acids. Type of protein, fiber, carbohydrates and prior meals eaten all affect how long you'll have amino acids released and being taken up by tissues after meals.

Origin

I think this "30 grams of protein"-nonsense started to circulate after a classic study from 1997 by Boirie and colleagues. "Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion" was the first study to quantify the absorption rate of whey and casein protein and gave birth to the concept of fast and slow protein. After that, whey protein came to be known for it's ability to rapidly elevate amino acids in the blood stream and casein for it's ability to create a sustained release of amino acids. Whey was anabolic and casein anti-catabolic.

Given that 30 grams of whey protein was absorbed within 3-4 hours, I guess some people believed that meant 30 grams of protein can only be used in one sitting. Or that you had to eat every 3-4 hours to stay "anabolic." Unfortunately, people missed a few facts that made these findings irrelevant to real-world scenarios. First of all, this study looked at the absorption rate of whey protein in the fasted state. On it's own, and with no meals eaten beforehand, 30 grams of whey protein is absorbed within a mere 3-4 hours. With meals eaten earlier in the day, or if you'd consume a whey shake after a meal, absorption would be much slower.

Second of all, whey protein is the fastest protein of all and digests at 10 g/hour. Casein is much slower; in Boirie's study, the casein protein was still being absorbed when they stopped the experiment 7 hours later. Most whole food proteins are absorbed at a rate of 3-6 grams an hour. Add other macronutrients to that and they'll take longer.

 

[BignHusky]

http://www.precisionnutrition.com/rr-whey-too-much[/QUOTE

]
honestly didn't know there was so much debate over this still. For me i know how much is too much... the bathroom effects arent cool and the calorie intake around that many grams of protien is above maintenance for me so i start seeing the weight gain.

 

[Xcuvator]

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

Specifically:

This seems reasonabe to me and I think I will continue to drink my 60gram shake with a meal each day. I have no "problems in the bathroom" or noticeable fat gain. But I did seem to notice muscle being built a little faster after starting the whey shake. That part could be in my head, I don't know.

 

[cptnandre]

I myself was fighting weight gain for a few years with no luck since a few slip ups here and there pretty much destroy your dieting challenge. I was educated by a friend about the Paleo diet, and at that time we created a paleo challenge between a few of us. Challenge was a strict paleo diet for thirty days, take a before pic in front of a mirror and an after pic at the end of thirty days. Cheats added $5 to a thirty day pot, and I think we ended up with around two hundred bucks. The diet consists of a gluten free lifestyle, cut out the grains and sugars and eat what one can grow and or kill. The first two weeks are the hardest but soon you grow into it. You will notice a pound a day loss which is shedding your retained water weight, you will soon flatline though. I'm 30 years old 6' and was 220LBS, I was down to 195LBS within 30 days and I weened my body off all the things which the regulars must have on a daily basis. The diet taught me how to get creative with natural foods and seasoning food properly. What i got out of the diet was a new outtake on daily consumption and I now had a diet that was a part of me where dieting was no longer necessary. Because I was now in some form of shape and had a foolproof diet, I joined a crossfit gym and that is on a whole other level. I believe its the greatest workout known to mankind. Its fun, productive, and routine is the enemy. I now weigh 198 LBS of muscle and in the greatest shape of my life.
http://paleodietlifestyle.com/

 

[hammer]

I myself was fighting weight gain for a few years with no luck since a few slip ups here and there pretty much destroy your dieting challenge. I was educated by a friend about the Paleo diet, and at that time we created a paleo challenge between a few of us. Challenge was a strict paleo diet for thirty days, take a before pic in front of a mirror and an after pic at the end of thirty days. Cheats added $5 to a thirty day pot, and I think we ended up with around two hundred bucks. The diet consists of a gluten free lifestyle, cut out the grains and sugars and eat what one can grow and or kill. The first two weeks are the hardest but soon you grow into it. You will notice a pound a day loss which is shedding your retained water weight, you will soon flatline though. I'm 30 years old 6' and was 220LBS, I was down to 195LBS within 30 days and I weened my body off all the things which the regulars must have on a daily basis. The diet taught me how to get creative with natural foods and seasoning food properly. What i got out of the diet was a new outtake on daily consumption and I now had a diet that was a part of me where dieting was no longer necessary. Because I was now in some form of shape and had a foolproof diet, I joined a crossfit gym and that is on a whole other level. I believe its the greatest workout known to mankind. Its fun, productive, and routine is the enemy. I now weigh 198 LBS of muscle and in the greatest shape of my life.
http://paleodietlifestyle.com/

Yes sir only way to live.
Check out books from
Robb Wolf
Mark Sission
Art DeVanny [He has not touched a grain in over 30 years]

http://www.arthurdevany.com/

 

[jtemple]

Alan Aragon knows his stuff.

http://www.alanaragon.com

http://www.alanaragon.com/articles

There's an article linked on his site called Is there a limit to how much protein the body can use in a single meal?

 

[BignHusky]

there are so many people on the internet that "know" thier stuff. I will try anything, if it works great if it doenst move on. I pulled this from an ISSN article. One thing i have learned is that there are as equally many opposing views and studies on every aspect of diet and training as there are with conclusive ones. We are getting down to pins and needles which, yes i admit i love the banter but i think we all pretty much do what we need to do to stay fit, loose fat and build muscle. The basic take away from this thread is that a lot of us have achieved great improvements in body composition at various ages and starting bf totals. I hope it is inspiring and would love to see peoples progress. To debate the finer details could take up many specific posts and really deserve their own threads. Hell why not start a whole new section here on the Cafe?
...now my 2 cents worth

The International Society of Sports Nutrition has a position statement from 2011 that states:​

1.Increasing meal frequency does not appear to favorably change body composition in SEDENTARY populations.​

2. If protein levels are adequate, INCREASING meal frequency during periods of hypoenergetic dieting may preserve lean body mass in athletic populations.​

3. Increased meal frequency appears to have a positive effect on various blood markers of health, particularly LDL cholesterol, total cholesterol, and insulin.​

4. Increased meal frequency does not appear to significantly enhance diet induced thermogenesis, total energy expenditure or resting metabolic rate.​

5. Increasing meal frequency appears to help decrease hunger and improve appetite control.​

The studies cited in that link in the OP's post are small studies, i.e. ten people in the first study and their age was up into the 60s, so that study was flawed.​

 

[jtemple]

I agree, if you look hard enough, you can find an argument for and against pretty much everything.

 

[MorrisBetter]

I agree, if you look hard enough, you can find an argument for and against pretty much everything.

No you can't!

 

[McKay]

No you can't!

Yes you can!