125-200cc EG 144 re-install suggestions

[gestion01]

Started re-installing my Eg 144 top end...

Instead of bothering Scott with 30 emails because I'm a total newbie doing my own motor work but hey you have to learn sometime!

Scott told me torque is 15lbs on head and cylinder bolts. So I got that covered. I cleaned up the base of the old gasket.

Do I need any gasket sealer or is it straight on with the new one?

Little arrow towards the front on piston...got the circlips in but how can I tell they are set in position? does not seem to have a groove on the new piston?

Any tips or newbie mistakes to avoid? I have been waiting since november and don't want to mess it up!

 

[PC.]

No gasket maker if a paper gasket is used.
Arrow towards the front/exhaust port
Set the ring circlip openings at 6 or 12 o'clock.
Set the ring gap
I put a thin layer of premix on the rings, but otherwise assemble dry
There should be a pin in the ring groove where the 2 ring ends are to meet.
Dont reuse head o-rings/gaskets

It's an awesome first timer job for motor work. You'll be plenty proud when you button it up, fill the fluids and hear it fire to life.

 

[gestion01]

Ok so one side at 6 and the other at 12, I guess this is too balance the weight of the clips?

Whats involved in setting the ring gap? would something like that have been done by EG?



thanks for the info. It's my second 2t top end. The first one was about 4 years ago on a air cooled ktm50. Still runs!

 

[PC.]

In theory, the circlips can compress from the force of the piston traveling up and down. So, you place the clip openings at 6 or 12 o'clock (doesn't matter which) so the inertia cannot have an impact upon the clip openings as if they were at 3 or 9 o'clock. Hope that makes sense.

Gorr may have gapped them for you. Are the rings still in a sealed bag?
If so, they are not gapped.
If not, I'd call and verify.

For a forged piston the rule is .004" per inch of bore. Cast will be tighter, I believe.

here's a wiki about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piston_ring
Check out the section titled 'Fitting New Psiton Rings' for some explanation as to why its important. If the gap needs to be enlarged then I'll secure a fine tooth file in a vice and slowly/evenly remove material from only one side of the ring gap and only in one direction (not back and forth) and then de-burr it.

 

[gestion01]

Ok if understand correctly, I need to position de ring inside the cylinder by itself and mesure the gap where the ring splits. This should be .004 (noticed this on the package but did not think anything of it.)

What happens if the ring gap is too large? pull the ring apart until it makes up the gap?

 

[PC.]

Ok if understand correctly, I need to position de ring inside the cylinder by itself and mesure the gap where the ring splits. This should be .004 (noticed this on the package but did not think anything of it.)

Yes. This is straight from one of Gorr's articles:

http://www.off-road.gr/article25.html
Measuring the Ring Gap

The best way to know if the rings are worn is to measure the ring end gap. Put the ring in the cylinder and use the piston to push it down about 1/2 inch from the top evenly spaced. Now use a feeler gauge to measure the width of the ring gap. Normally, the maximum gap is 0.018–0.025 inch.

Wiseco recommends .004" for every inch of bore, so assuming you have a forged piston you'll need to determine the bore size and get out the calculator. If its cast then I would shoot for what Gorr says above.

What happens if the ring gap is too large? pull the ring apart until it makes up the gap?

I dunno as I've never had that problem. Too large is better than too small as you wont have to worry about the rings ends butting up and scarring the cylinder wall, but it wont have optimum seal. And if you're running a single ring piston you need a good seal.


And please note I am no motor builder or professional mechanic. This is just what I do on a rebuild and it has served me very well over the years.

 

[razornpc]

make sure the c-clips for the wrist pin are 180 degrees away from the little opening.

put oil on the ring, wipe the cylinder walls down with oil. oile your wrist pin bearing.

make sure everything is as clean as possible before reassembly.

it greatly helps to buy and use the motion pro torque wrench adapter for torquing your cylinder nuts.

also, when you start putting your cylinder on, be sure to start the nut closest to the power valve linkage as you set the cyl. down. its tight clearance.

i like using blue lock-tite on all the nuts for the cyl. after a few heat cycles re torque everything just for fun.

 

[gestion01]

It's wiseco. I will take the radius of the bore. Lets says it's 4''.

Then a multiply .004 x 4= .020 so that should be my gap.

Did I pass ?
rofessor:

 

[razornpc]

No gasket maker if a paper gasket is used.
Arrow towards the front/exhaust port
Set the ring circlip openings at 6 or 12 o'clock.
Set the ring gap
I put a thin layer of premix on the rings, but otherwise assemble dry
There should be a pin in the ring groove where the 2 ring ends are to meet.
Dont reuse head o-rings/gaskets
It's an awesome first timer job for motor work. You'll be plenty proud when you button it up, fill the fluids and hear it fire to life.

this is true, dont ask how i know

 

[NWRider]

I wrote this a while back. It might help

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=714983&highlight=top+end+guide

 

[gestion01]

Thanks for all the info and help.

What about my calculations for the bore size? I got it right?

 

[wallybean]

You have a 58 mm bore which equals - 2.283" so your minimum gap should be =.009". I made mine .010" when I did mine.

Hope that helps,
Walt

PS. Have a blast and springs should be in to Scott's soon, they are at Hall's right now.

 

[gestion01]

You have a 58 mm bore which equals - 2.283" so your minimum gap should be =.009". I made mine .010" when I did mine.

Hope that helps,
Walt

PS. Have a blast and springs should be in to Scott's soon, they are at Hall's right now.

helps a lot!

I get .012 not sure what to do now

ps. Scott will send me the springs when he gets them, but that's going to be a whole other thread

 

[wallybean]

.002" isn't going to adversely affect performance and gives you that much more room for error. I wouldn't worry until you had more than .010" above recommended gap. Of course I am no expert either.

Walt

 

[gestion01]

wallybean,

I read on another post you run a 460 main with a 32.5 idle jet. Is that still your preferred setup for the 144kit?

Weather is cold here -10C/14F I might just put the biggest jets I have to be on the safe side to test it. Like 45 idle and 490 main...

 

[wallybean]

That jetting is a little rich above 4000' so I have gone to a 450 here. At 1000' it was very good. I would say bump the main to 470, put your clip in the bottom groove of the needle, and go to a 35 pilot for the cold and break in at ~1000'. Work from there but don't be afraid to start adjusting once you have done several good heat cycles.

Maybe somebody who is closer to your altitude, temp, and humidity can chime in with some data.

Good luck and have fun,

Walt

 

[gestion01]

It's alive! :devil:


No real testing so it is difficult to say on the results. Going up and down the street in first gear... It's been 3 months since my last 125 ride...and been riding my 450 since then. Total opposite of a 125 in style.

All I can say for now is it's much stronger from a dead start. Stock I needed to gas/clutch/rev to get going.

Sound is ''smooth'' with the fmf muffler. Fits good.

Running 50/50 c12 and pump gas, 32:1, 35 idle, 470 main and bottom clip. For sure too rich for any decent riding weather.