Dies at idle when blipping throttle. Best tuning practices?

[millenium7]

Bike is a 2009 TE510

The situation
I'll finally be able to get the husky road legal soon and be able to put some seat time on it. As of right now the only problem is in the tuning. I went in through iBeat and changed the values which were I believe 104 - 109 - 98. Bike had an FMF system on it and I have no idea how it performed like that as it had some issues that i've now sorted out
The FMF was so ridiculously loud that I wanted nothing to do with it whatsoever. I've picked up a stock pipe and even that was too loud, so I shoved a pitbike baffle in there to quieten it down to an acceptable level. I've no idea much this will affect the tune, but the opening is about size of a round marker pen now, baffle is about 20cm long. This may come out later but it's been in to keep it quiet at night when I was getting it running, however it will be registered like that for now

I've reset all the iBeat values to 100 - 100 - 100. TPS reset and idle adjusted to 1600rpm. Bike feels much better but it still stalls if I blip the throttle quickly at idle. And upon doing so will take a fair few cranks to restart itself. Otherwise it seems to run strong through the revs
Where I should start with tuning this thing? I havn't tuned a 4 stroke in a while and never done an FI tune
Am I right in that leaner at low should help fix the stalling issue?
How do I know if I should go leaner or richer?
What kind of step values should I adjusting each time? +/- 1.0? 3.5? 5.0?
Start at low, mid or high settings and work forwards or backwards?
The Stupid Question: Lower values in iBeat are leaner, higher are richer. Correct?

 

[Up-tite]

Try 115, 107, 102
Later george

 

[Mik-3]

My sm510r whit adjusted PC V also dies if i blip the throttle fast enough, my idle rpms is 1800

 

[millenium7]

Couple questions
1) What exactly is the knob on the throttle body? I pulled the assembly apart to clean it and it looks all it does is let more air in, effectively the same as slightly opening the throttle. Is that right? Has nothing to do with mixtures just adds a bit more air for more revs
2) All the restriction stuff has been removed in the past so its in full power mode. Does the ECU richen the mixture when the bike is cold automatically?

The reason I ask is at 100-100-100 I have to pull that knob out to start the bike, whether hot or cold (Or just open the throttle very slightly)
I had a quick fiddle last night just to see if I could make the idle better, with a cold engine 105 (no1) it now starts much easier, no knob needed. So i've set it to 105-107-110 for now and will see how it goes

 

[R_Little]

Couple questions
1) What exactly is the knob on the throttle body? I pulled the assembly apart to clean it and it looks all it does is let more air in, effectively the same as slightly opening the throttle. Is that right? Has nothing to do with mixtures just adds a bit more air for more revs
2) All the restriction stuff has been removed in the past so its in full power mode. Does the ECU richen the mixture when the bike is cold automatically?

The reason I ask is at 100-100-100 I have to pull that knob out to start the bike, whether hot or cold (Or just open the throttle very slightly)
I had a quick fiddle last night just to see if I could make the idle better, with a cold engine 105 (no1) it now starts much easier, no knob needed. So i've set it to 105-107-110 for now and will see how it goes

1 Idle adjustment...you are correct. There should be a cold start lever on the handlebar too. Use it to start the bike cold.
2. Yes

I'd turn the idle speed up a touch also.

I would not worry too much about how the bike runs cold...more concerned about how it runs when warm.

 

[duggoey]

Yes higher CO corresponds to a richer mix as far as I know. I found that at 100 100 100 was a crappy setting with a stock system on the Italian 310, it was almost unridable due to stalling at low revs (flaming out). My final mix was something like Georges above.

Remember the settings are climate and altitude dependant. What works for me at sea level in NSW Australia might not work for you.

 

[millenium7]

Ok so 100-100-100 is utter garbage as shown by running 105-107-110. Getting there. Starts way easier, much stronger bottom end and smoother, can take off without feeling like I need to raise the revs much if at all. Although i'm losing power on top it actually feels so much more alive and fun. It did pop-stall once at the crest of a hill so I thought i'd try George's recommendation of 112-107-102
Starts maybe just a little less nicely though idles beautifully. Not quite as smooth just lugging along in gear so maybe we've gone too far
Top end is a bit hard to say. With 110 it feels like i'm down on power yet at the same time feels faster. Whereas with 102 it sounds happier but doesn't feel faster. Kind of weird to explain. I guess the best thing to do is a WOT 5th gear plug chop and go off that

It did actually pop-stall around a corner as I blipped the throttle with the clutch in. I guess that's just the nature of the beast? I think i'll split the difference with the low end and try 108

Whats a good way to find a happy setting for mid-range? Right now it seems beautiful there with shatloads of power, lightning fast response and very smooth. I'm inclined to leave it there but I want to know i'm not too lean or just unnecessary dumping fuel being too rich. Should I just go +/- 1.0 at a time in an effort to find something better?

 

[millenium7]

I read on here somewhere that if you are in full power mode, then only CO No.1 makes any difference in iBeat, and even though you can change No.2 and No.3 it won't actually have any effect. Is this true?

I'm still having issues getting it right just above idle. It'll stutter and feel weak, and the engine seems to run REALLY hot. As in if I don't have any pants on it will literally leave a burn mark on my left leg kinda hot. With No.1 at 115 the engine still feels ridiculously hot around town. After just plodding along for a while at low throttle openings I checked the plug and this is how it looked

That to me looks very lean. So I set everything to the max of 130, at first it seemed pretty similar but then after 30 seconds or so I did notice it was really weak just above idle and it idled much lower, wasn't happy. Plug was very black after plodding around for a bit. Yet at higher throttle openings it did feel pretty much fine, I was expecting it to stutter, bog and complain but nope it'll hold WOT just fine, if I back off to match throttle with revs it won't bog or rise in revs it'll respond as it should when jetted fairly well

115 with very slight throttle opening it feels weak and its been so long tuning 4 strokes that I can't remember if thats lean or rich, but the plug suggests lean. 130 is way too far and it idles like crap and needs revs to pull away
Should I try 122 and then go from there until I find a sweet spot? Or should I be going off the plug? (i'm not actually sure the best way to check plug color for low range, just idle it for a couple minutes?)
whats the go here?

 

[R_Little]

My plug is whiter than that and my TE250 with the same system 4pt injector and all runs fine and NEVER stalls.

It may be your pump is just not keeping up or your injector is clogging.

Also, what is your TPS setting at WOT? That affects your whole map.
Does is stutter at small throttle openings?

 

[millenium7]

There is literally a burn mark on my left leg right now from a ~15 minute ride, not a slightly red area, a literal burn mark where its scorched the skin and blistered. No it didn't touch the pipe, thats just in the normal riding position

TPS has been set to 100.2% at WOT and tends to sit at 0.1% when closed. Yes small throttle openings are the problem, seems to run ok everywhere else, but idling is VERY hot and small throttle opening it's weak and stutters a bit

 

[millenium7]

So I set it to 118% and it was noticeably better but still not fantastic, kept incrementing by 2% at a time until I got to 124%. Could barely tell a difference betwen 122 and 124% so i've left it there for now. Bumped No2 from 107% to 110% thinking that maybe its slightly lean in the midrange and as the revs rapidly drop its slightly too lean. But all this seemed to do was make it feel a tiny bit 'fatter' in the mid range and it seems to be happier at 107%

It still pop stalls every once in a while, and usually it happens at the crest of a really hill when I back off. It's much better with anything from 120-124% but it still does it on occasion
In addition to this its ALWAYS hard to start the bike again after a pop stall. I have it crank it over several times and if I give it no throttle whatsoever it'll stumble and fart ass around at 1000rpm as its cranking, but it very rarely will catch and keep running by itself. I have to crank it over a half dozen times or so until it starts firing on its own, then open the throttle very slightly until it revs. If I use the throttle knob thingy it makes it a lot easier, but I feel I shouldn't have to be using that when the bike is hot
When its cold it seems to start up pretty easy, and say 50-50 if its hot and i've shut it down normally as to wehther it'll start right back up without needing any throttle input

 

[millenium7]

The bike does run a lot cooler at 124%, I can actually touch the rear heat shield for more than a split second. But this value seems quite excessive, and the reluctance to start when hot or after a pop-stall is quite odd. Oh and I should mention that not once have I ever been able to start this bike with the kick starter
Whats the procedure with the injector. How do I remove it? And can it be cleaned by any regular ultrasonic cleaner?

 

[AndrewS]

I read on here somewhere that if you are in full power mode, then only CO No.1 makes any difference in iBeat, and even though you can change No.2 and No.3 it won't actually have any effect. Is this true?

I suspect you read something about the 2008 models. IIRC, they only had one adjustment point.

Have you considered a JD Tuner? They've helped a lot of people, including me.

 

[millenium7]

Well running No.2 and No.3 at the max of 130% doesn't seem to make much of a difference, i'd expect it to basically be unrideable like that. However No.1 definitely does make a difference. I don't recall where that comment was or if it was in regard to any specific bikes

 

[Fooschnickenz]

My 2011 te310 acts just like this did u ever get it sorted?

 

[millenium7]

Yes the problem was primarily some sort of issue with the fueling. Have a look at this thread for some more info http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/you-can-kick-start-these-bikes-i-dont-believe-you.81107/
But the key point is that the fuel injector must have been partially blocked. It didn't visually look problematic, but after cleaning it performed much better. My method of cleaning was to fill a syringe with carb cleaning and attach that to the injector supply port. Then run 2 bits of wire to the injector and repeatedly tap it against the bikes battery to fire the injector and thus squirt carb cleaner through the system. After doing that I had to back the fueling off as it was way too rich. I also removed my makeshift baffle as that was creating too much backpressure and making it hard to start. Settled on 115/107/102 and it has been very well behaved