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Hi everyone,
As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.
When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.
Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.
Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.
Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.
Thanks for your patience and support!
Day of the SS
- Thread starter ray_ray
- Start date
I have mixed feeling about those. It's nice to not throw stuff away but there is no way to get them 100% clean, they are a mess to clean and reports are they do not filter as well despite the advertising. 
glangston
Husqvarna
Pro Class
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters
Above is some discussion about filters and elements.
Maybe short racing like MotoX makes this a good choice. Longer races like Baja or Desert maybe not as there are differences in them and paper filter specs and flow are pretty well known. Not sure what the flow specs are on the Scott but they're a pretty good company so they've probably tested it.
I remember George talking about warming these bikes up and said if you don't they will bypass the filter until the oil is suitably warm...not a good thing.
I realize I'm being a little negative, but I nearly bought one and was talked out of it. Labor of cleaning this, as opposed to just swapping the paper one out is a thing to consider also. Certainly going to generate less waste.....and that's a fair argument. Paper filters can be cut apart and examined too, a plus for diagnosis.
Above is some discussion about filters and elements.
Maybe short racing like MotoX makes this a good choice. Longer races like Baja or Desert maybe not as there are differences in them and paper filter specs and flow are pretty well known. Not sure what the flow specs are on the Scott but they're a pretty good company so they've probably tested it.
I remember George talking about warming these bikes up and said if you don't they will bypass the filter until the oil is suitably warm...not a good thing.
I realize I'm being a little negative, but I nearly bought one and was talked out of it. Labor of cleaning this, as opposed to just swapping the paper one out is a thing to consider also. Certainly going to generate less waste.....and that's a fair argument. Paper filters can be cut apart and examined too, a plus for diagnosis.
ray_ray
Mini-Sponsor
Negative? This term is miss used often on these sites ... Facts are facts ... neg or positive is really a non-issue ... Its just ~about impossible to get a fact that is true ;0) .. besides the down sides are the ones that matter ... the good side takes care of itself no matter how pathetic we might be on a subject ...
Labor of cleaning? ... lol ... I'll let that go
... I'm sure you are a hard charger and not one to shy away from the W word (work) ...
I like that web site but he is pretty brief on SS filters ... Not sure what year his words were written but he has the numbers right on the hole sizes ...
My memory may be bad on what I have read but the SS filters flow much more oil ... hot and ESP when cold I was reading once ... Some were even saying the entire oiling system was set up for the paper elements that restrict the oil and create pressure ... the SS just flow ... again ... more web stuff ...
I might cut my last one apart and see what is in it ....
Labor of cleaning? ... lol ... I'll let that go
... I'm sure you are a hard charger and not one to shy away from the W word (work) ... I like that web site but he is pretty brief on SS filters ... Not sure what year his words were written but he has the numbers right on the hole sizes ...
My memory may be bad on what I have read but the SS filters flow much more oil ... hot and ESP when cold I was reading once ... Some were even saying the entire oiling system was set up for the paper elements that restrict the oil and create pressure ... the SS just flow ... again ... more web stuff ...
I might cut my last one apart and see what is in it ....
ray_ray;108215 said:Labor of cleaning? ... lol ... I'll let that go
Post back after a few months with it. I hated cleaning mine, was hard to clean and never could tell if it actually was clean. You can use gas but then where do you dump the gas / oil mixture you end up with. You can use carb cleaner but them you just spent $2 on carb cleaner to give yourself cancer. I never came up with a solution to this cleaning mess and hated the fact that I am putting a filter back in that already was filtering, IE had crap in it. If it does filter to the ridiculous microns it says it does there is no way your getting everything out. the hassle, mess and unknowns made me switch back.
I run a stainless, it cleans up pretty easily with gas. submerge it and shake, then blow air from the inside out.
I would prefer to run paper filters, but at $8-9 a pop for the little pieces of shit, I would already be at $80+ and I've had the bike for 3 months. And the paper filters available aren't exactly high quality either.
I would prefer to run paper filters, but at $8-9 a pop for the little pieces of shit, I would already be at $80+ and I've had the bike for 3 months. And the paper filters available aren't exactly high quality either.
ray_ray
Mini-Sponsor
Interesting ... maybe I can find an acceptable method ... I'll have to ponder this even more now I already think a light is a way to check it for clogs ... even if it does not get 100% of the pores open, it should be OK I think ... nothing is a 100% except death ... Taxes are not included here as if you make 0 or less than the standard deductions, U own nothing in the usa ... but you might have to still file and let the powers know U are still here 
We re-use paper elements and they are known to release and recapture the same bits ....
I already think a light is a way to check it for clogs ... even if it does not get 100% of the pores open, it should be OK I think ... nothing is a 100% except death ... Taxes are not included here as if you make 0 or less than the standard deductions, U own nothing in the usa ... but you might have to still file and let the powers know U are still here We re-use paper elements and they are known to release and recapture the same bits ....
nocontrol;108226 said:
We (Motosportz) sell paper filters for $23 for a pack of 5.
I'm not knocking the SS filter just did not have a positive experience personally and always hated the fact i was putting a used and not 100% clean filter back in.
glangston
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Motosportz;108240 said:
I was responding with this general idea of cost, around $5, that's what I pay for them from you or George (Uptite Husqvarna in Santa Ana.) If people are paying twice that in other places it changes the perceived economics. They're pretty light and compact, shouldn't be much to ship them.
HUSKYnXJnWI
Husqvarna
AA Class
I have them for my Ktm (which runs 2 filters and 2 screens). I certinaly have saved some money- but my confidence is not 100%. And I do hate cleaning them. ON that bike I think the best would be running 1 paper and 1 SS. Eliminates the hi flow (low pressure) concerns and gives a little confidence back because deep down I know the paper is filtering better. I haven't had an issue- but you don't know of an issue until its too late unfortunately- and then what do you blame.
One concern not mentioned- oil flows from outside to inside the filter (oil inside is the clean stuff)- what if you submerge the filter and /or happen to get something durring the cleaning process inside the filter? How would you get it out? say something that was 40 microns... You won't. That's my biggest concern when I clean them. I use simple grean and soak them up to the line before the seal. Then I spray compressed air through the seal hole to push out the cleaner and particles. Then I spray carb cleaner to rince and evaporate everything- then I spray with compressed air. - I have heard that the "way" to clean these best is with "ultrasonic cleaner machines".
Personally gonna stick with paper for the husky. Oil filters are almost as debateable as oil really- seen quite a few. Have to make your own mind up in the end. Just thought I'd share my experience with them- much like Kelly's really.
One concern not mentioned- oil flows from outside to inside the filter (oil inside is the clean stuff)- what if you submerge the filter and /or happen to get something durring the cleaning process inside the filter? How would you get it out? say something that was 40 microns... You won't. That's my biggest concern when I clean them. I use simple grean and soak them up to the line before the seal. Then I spray compressed air through the seal hole to push out the cleaner and particles. Then I spray carb cleaner to rince and evaporate everything- then I spray with compressed air. - I have heard that the "way" to clean these best is with "ultrasonic cleaner machines".
Personally gonna stick with paper for the husky. Oil filters are almost as debateable as oil really- seen quite a few. Have to make your own mind up in the end. Just thought I'd share my experience with them- much like Kelly's really.
ray_ray
Mini-Sponsor
There are alot of points here 4 sure to weight ... I had already considered the 'leaving a piece of grim in the filter' possibility ... it could even be larger than the 40 mic ... Cleaning these things is one place you don't wanna screw up too badly 4 sure ...
I'm not really worried about clogging ... even the most paranoid person might run a paper element twice and who knows what these things do in this case ... SS are high flow ... 25% blockage or more might not be even be an issue
...
Thanks for the cleaning tip and my bet is placed ;0 ) ... I hope the returns are better than my market picks 4 sure ...
Here are some words from the TT site ...not sure where they came from but sounds good any way
Paper and mesh filters take a fundamentally different approach to filtering. Mesh filters filter down to a certain size, and for practical purposes, no smaller than that. They do, however, only require a single pass to filter to that level. They work by simply having a very strictly controlled mesh size, through which a spherical object larger than that size cannot pass. They are rated in "absolute" terms, as with the Scotts (35μm "absolute"). This rating tells you that nothing larger than 35μm (35 microns) will pass through it. (1 micron, or micrometer more correctly, is 1/1,000,000 of a meter, or 0.001 mm, or 0.000039")
Mesh filters are able to achieve this level of filtration with remarkably low resistance to fluid flow, as well, which in the case of the Scotts means that the bypass valve will not open on cold starts, and there will be no appreciable pressure loss across the filter.
"Paper" filters are different. They can stop even finer debris than mesh filters, but they also allow some larger debris to pass. They filter somewhat the same way a thick shrub catches objects thrown into it. Most tennis balls get stuck, but not all. An occasional golf ball gets caught, but an occasional soccer ball passes through to balance that out.
The random arrangement and density of the fibers in the element create odd and irregular gaps through which debris can pass. This creates little crotches of sorts that enable the filter to catch extremely small debris, but also creates gaps that allow it to pass ridiculously large material at other times. The paper element media is also three dimensional to a degree, whereas mesh is essentially two dimensional; if something passes through one opening in the mesh, it's through, which isn't necessarily the case with fiber media.
Fiber, or paper, filters can stop debris as fine as 20 microns, or even less. But, they won't stop it all on the first pass. Worse yet, they won't stop all of the debris even as large as 90 microns or more on the first pass, and some particles occasionally come free of the filter to re-enter the oil stream. They are usually considered multi-pass filters, which carries the expectation that the same debris will pass through the system multiple times before being intercepted. They will be given "Beta" ratings like "80/25", which tells you that it will stop 80% of all 25 micron particles on the first pass. However, they will rarely publish the fact that they may very well also test at 85/35 or 85/40, and certainly will not mention that they tested at only 95/60 (95% of 60 micron debris).
Additionally, paper filters resist oil flow, particularly when cold, a great deal more than does mesh, and cold starts often cause a paper filter to bypass. In the Scotts filter, a one inch square of the mesh media they use will flow 1.9 gallons of cold 90 weight gear oil per minute at only 1 psi pump pressure (70 degrees F). The YZ filter contains about 15 sq/in of mesh, which means that the media itself has the ability to flow over 28 GPM of cold 90 weight. The pump at the corner gas station is only about half that fast on a good day. That figure is also far beyond the delivery capabilities of the engine oil pump in any case. That basically means that unless you run half a shop rag through your engine, the Scotts filter will never bypass under any conceivable circumstance, and will filter at full capacity regardless of temperature. This is often not the case with "paper" filters, which commonly open the bypass valve during warmup operation.
So, it isn't a black and white, indisputable, one's better than the other kind of choice, but in my opinion, the 35 micron stainless mesh is the way to go, and Scotts makes the best example of that type of filter. Let me also point out that there is a huge difference between the medical grade stainless steel mesh used in Scotts filters and the OEM brass screen filters used in YZF's up until '03. The brass filters will filter no finer than 70-80 microns absolute, which is not nearly acceptable, IMO.
I'm not really worried about clogging ... even the most paranoid person might run a paper element twice and who knows what these things do in this case ... SS are high flow ... 25% blockage or more might not be even be an issue
...
Thanks for the cleaning tip and my bet is placed ;0 ) ... I hope the returns are better than my market picks 4 sure ...
Here are some words from the TT site ...not sure where they came from but sounds good any way
Paper and mesh filters take a fundamentally different approach to filtering. Mesh filters filter down to a certain size, and for practical purposes, no smaller than that. They do, however, only require a single pass to filter to that level. They work by simply having a very strictly controlled mesh size, through which a spherical object larger than that size cannot pass. They are rated in "absolute" terms, as with the Scotts (35μm "absolute"). This rating tells you that nothing larger than 35μm (35 microns) will pass through it. (1 micron, or micrometer more correctly, is 1/1,000,000 of a meter, or 0.001 mm, or 0.000039")
Mesh filters are able to achieve this level of filtration with remarkably low resistance to fluid flow, as well, which in the case of the Scotts means that the bypass valve will not open on cold starts, and there will be no appreciable pressure loss across the filter.
"Paper" filters are different. They can stop even finer debris than mesh filters, but they also allow some larger debris to pass. They filter somewhat the same way a thick shrub catches objects thrown into it. Most tennis balls get stuck, but not all. An occasional golf ball gets caught, but an occasional soccer ball passes through to balance that out.
The random arrangement and density of the fibers in the element create odd and irregular gaps through which debris can pass. This creates little crotches of sorts that enable the filter to catch extremely small debris, but also creates gaps that allow it to pass ridiculously large material at other times. The paper element media is also three dimensional to a degree, whereas mesh is essentially two dimensional; if something passes through one opening in the mesh, it's through, which isn't necessarily the case with fiber media.
Fiber, or paper, filters can stop debris as fine as 20 microns, or even less. But, they won't stop it all on the first pass. Worse yet, they won't stop all of the debris even as large as 90 microns or more on the first pass, and some particles occasionally come free of the filter to re-enter the oil stream. They are usually considered multi-pass filters, which carries the expectation that the same debris will pass through the system multiple times before being intercepted. They will be given "Beta" ratings like "80/25", which tells you that it will stop 80% of all 25 micron particles on the first pass. However, they will rarely publish the fact that they may very well also test at 85/35 or 85/40, and certainly will not mention that they tested at only 95/60 (95% of 60 micron debris).
Additionally, paper filters resist oil flow, particularly when cold, a great deal more than does mesh, and cold starts often cause a paper filter to bypass. In the Scotts filter, a one inch square of the mesh media they use will flow 1.9 gallons of cold 90 weight gear oil per minute at only 1 psi pump pressure (70 degrees F). The YZ filter contains about 15 sq/in of mesh, which means that the media itself has the ability to flow over 28 GPM of cold 90 weight. The pump at the corner gas station is only about half that fast on a good day. That figure is also far beyond the delivery capabilities of the engine oil pump in any case. That basically means that unless you run half a shop rag through your engine, the Scotts filter will never bypass under any conceivable circumstance, and will filter at full capacity regardless of temperature. This is often not the case with "paper" filters, which commonly open the bypass valve during warmup operation.
So, it isn't a black and white, indisputable, one's better than the other kind of choice, but in my opinion, the 35 micron stainless mesh is the way to go, and Scotts makes the best example of that type of filter. Let me also point out that there is a huge difference between the medical grade stainless steel mesh used in Scotts filters and the OEM brass screen filters used in YZF's up until '03. The brass filters will filter no finer than 70-80 microns absolute, which is not nearly acceptable, IMO.
Motosportz;108240 said:
Which model is that? The hiflos that are recommended for the newer bikes are like $9 whereas the older ones are $5 or so.
Edit: just went on your site, and it is the 154 that you sell for $23/5 pack. The newer bikes are supposed to use the 563 which you sell for $40/5 pack. I am not going to pay $8 for a crappy little filter every few hundred miles.
All good points and good posts. 
Run what works for you. I always do 1 filter to 2-3 oil changes. I have cut them apart and there is still very little in there.
Run what works for you. I always do 1 filter to 2-3 oil changes. I have cut them apart and there is still very little in there.
kouack
Husqvarna
AA Class
Motosportz;108240 said:
And 40$ for a pack 5 for the newer model
I'm a mechanic on Helicopter and we only use SS filter, on the engine and combining gear box and they are clean/inspected every 150 hrs in a ultrasonic bath with some varsol with a citrus smell
, and replace every 900 hrs. Ok a turbine doesn't have much moving parts compare to a piston engine, but still have an accessory gear box for all the other crap running of it. I'm seriously considering it for the cost factor as well now.
kouack
Husqvarna
AA Class
I will have to check @ work to try to find spec, will try to get you an answer Monday evening.
Also the oil used is tinner, BP2380 is used http://www.airflowint.nl/site/data/document/607.pdf
Also the oil used is tinner, BP2380 is used http://www.airflowint.nl/site/data/document/607.pdf
Some sort of cleaning station like a parts cleaner tub where you force cleaning fluid through it in the opposite direction would be ideal for cleaning them. i just see no way to clean them without contaminating the inside to some extent.