Counter shaft/front sprocket backlash

[WSA]

Hi... First post on this forum and I'm a big fan of many on here that I recognize from other forums. I thought I'd bring up a topic here that I've read/posted on other forums and I have not found mentioned here yet.

Left over 07 TE450 (Euro3) bought within the last several months new. Only 750 miles with "easy" break-in. 80/20 dirt/street use. It's been great... I love the bike

During a session of admiration and fondling (I know you all do it too) I found some forward/backward backlash when wiggling the countershaft sprocket. I also read some stories about counter shaft splines being stripped in other forums. There seems to be a few different opinions as to a cause:

1). Spline wear due to various causes ranging from no cush drive to improper chain tension to lack of lube to suspect hardening...etc)

At least in my case, I don't "see" any wear and I can duplicate the backlash on the end of the shaft (where it does not sit) with the same results in the position where it normally sits.. so I'm reluctant in some of the theories that it is wear related (at least in my case).

2). Someone mentioned a theory where there may be some mismatches (improperly broached?) cog angles between the sline and sprocket. Some have claimed that they have found a tight fit with aftermarket sprockets when the OEM give slop.

3). Lastly, I've also read that some dealers have informed owners that the slop is normal on a CS held in place with a clip. The latter is the explanation I got from my dealer.

Sorry for the long winded summary of what may be a regurgitated issue, but can any of you share your perspective or confirm if you have any CS backlash, wear or different fitment between sprocket mfgs?.

I ordered a Renthal sprocket just to see if I get a different fit or not. Keep you posted. Thanks for any feedback.

 

[Motosportz]

2). Someone mentioned a theory where there may be some mismatches (improperly broached?) cog angles between the sline and sprocket. Some have claimed that they have found a tight fit with aftermarket sprockets when the OEM give slop.

We sell sprockets and have noticed some of this as well.

 

[Rusty 2]

I had an XR600 once that was like that with the OEM CS sprocket. It was a known problem on the 600/650 forum of TT. I'll bet I ended up ordering half a dozen CS sprockets for it,...including a Renthal....until I finally wound up settling on the top-of-the-line CS cog from SideWinder. I don't know why, but it seemed to have the least play of any I tried,....and even it still had some.

Coat the shaft with a good thick grease before you slide the sprocket on.

 

[Ruffus]

I have an Afam C\S sprocket with practically zero slop after 1800 miles. It was so tight when I installed it compared to factory one (300 miles) that I thought it must be the wrong one, it fit perfect, I just didn't have it perfectly aligned at first. There is a noticeable difference between the way the two fit.

 

[Coffee]

Incredibly interesting information.

 

[Troy F Collins]

Hi... First post on this forum and I'm a big fan of many on here that I recognize from other forums. I thought I'd bring up a topic here that I've read/posted on other forums and I have not found mentioned here yet.

Left over 07 TE450 (Euro3) bought within the last several months new. Only 750 miles with "easy" break-in. 80/20 dirt/street use. It's been great... I love the bike

During a session of admiration and fondling (I know you all do it too) I found some forward/backward backlash when wiggling the countershaft sprocket. I also read some stories about counter shaft splines being stripped in other forums. There seems to be a few different opinions as to a cause:

1). Spline wear due to various causes ranging from no cush drive to improper chain tension to lack of lube to suspect hardening...etc)

At least in my case, I don't "see" any wear and I can duplicate the backlash on the end of the shaft (where it does not sit) with the same results in the position where it normally sits.. so I'm reluctant in some of the theories that it is wear related (at least in my case).

2). Someone mentioned a theory where there may be some mismatches (improperly broached?) cog angles between the sline and sprocket. Some have claimed that they have found a tight fit with aftermarket sprockets when the OEM give slop.

3). Lastly, I've also read that some dealers have informed owners that the slop is normal on a CS held in place with a clip. The latter is the explanation I got from my dealer.

Sorry for the long winded summary of what may be a regurgitated issue, but can any of you share your perspective or confirm if you have any CS backlash, wear or different fitment between sprocket mfgs?.

I ordered a Renthal sprocket just to see if I get a different fit or not. Keep you posted. Thanks for any feedback.

REMEMBER..IF YOU FONDLE IT MORE THAN TWICE..YOUR PLAYING WITH IT !!

seriously though....I have always noticed that CS sprockets are never solidly fixed to the countershaft for whatever reason....probably to absorb shock....?? I dont know I've seen all kinds of examples...from circlips...bolts and washers...to large 32mm nuts...all the while the sprocket floats around on the shaft...and does cause not cause any harm....I think the idea is the sprocket should be a softer material than the countershaft itself....for obvious reasons

 

[WSA]

Update

I'm beginning to wonder if I'm over reacting to this CS "backlash" issue.

Taking the previous comments to heart (Thanks Everyone), I went ahead and stopped by Dirt Tricks (Ironman) shop and talked with Nate (Very supportive and helpful). His office is just covered with sprockets for every brand and tooth size you could imagine (except 13 tooth CS for Husky ... but he had 14 and 15) .

Anyway, he also had a wall with countershaft splines from various makes of bikes. Out of curiosity I played around with some to get a feel of "backlash" between the various applications he had sitting there... Kaw, Honda, Zuk, KTM...etc. Firstly, what some have said previously, it seems there can be expected to be at least "some" slop. Some had as much wiggle as my stock Husky (Gas Gas), the KTM was tighter, but still moved just a tad. The Honda was pretty tight and I could not notice any movement really. What was interesting is that it seemed the CS with smaller and more splines seemed to have the least amount of play. Compared to the Japanese bikes, the Euros seemed to have less splines with broader notches while the Japanese bikes had more splines but with smaller notches (if that makes sense). The latter seemed to give a tighter fit. So I think it might be normal to have some slop on the Husky considering the design of the CS and how it is held on with a clip. Probably old hat to some here, but wanted share what I think I learned.

Secondly, It was not until I compared my CS sprocket with a new one (and the expert eye of Nate) that we noticed some slight wear indications on my sprocket. I previously posted that I saw no signs of wear, but found out that I'm full of it. (sorry). I think this explains the extra slop that raised my concern. Not sure why it happened so quick though... assuming some sprocket wear is expected at 750 miles. Maybe not. But I'll be checking it every once and a while.

Lastly, The Ironman sprocket did tighten up the backlash I had with my stock CS. There was still a little bit of wiggle, but it is noticably tighter. I'm curious if I'll like the 14 tooth or not.

I'm going to try another MFG sprocket in the next couple days or so... Keep you posted.

Thanks for everyone's help

 

[Swampds]

You have the euro te 450 right? I have the 14 x 50 combo and love it. It takes a little more clutch work in the tight stuff....but it give you the right amount of grunt and speed to get over most obstacles.

 

[Troy F Collins]

Update

I'm beginning to wonder if I'm over reacting to this CS "backlash" issue.

Taking the previous comments to heart (Thanks Everyone), I went ahead and stopped by Dirt Tricks (Ironman) shop and talked with Nate (Very supportive and helpful). His office is just covered with sprockets for every brand and tooth size you could imagine (except 13 tooth CS for Husky ... but he had 14 and 15) .

Anyway, he also had a wall with countershaft splines from various makes of bikes. Out of curiosity I played around with some to get a feel of "backlash" between the various applications he had sitting there... Kaw, Honda, Zuk, KTM...etc. Firstly, what some have said previously, it seems there can be expected to be at least "some" slop. Some had as much wiggle as my stock Husky (Gas Gas), the KTM was tighter, but still moved just a tad. The Honda was pretty tight and I could not notice any movement really. What was interesting is that it seemed the CS with smaller and more splines seemed to have the least amount of play. Compared to the Japanese bikes, the Euros seemed to have less splines with broader notches while the Japanese bikes had more splines but with smaller notches (if that makes sense). The latter seemed to give a tighter fit. So I think it might be normal to have some slop on the Husky considering the design of the CS and how it is held on with a clip. Probably old hat to some here, but wanted share what I think I learned.

Secondly, It was not until I compared my CS sprocket with a new one (and the expert eye of Nate) that we noticed some slight wear indications on my sprocket. I previously posted that I saw no signs of wear, but found out that I'm full of it. (sorry). I think this explains the extra slop that raised my concern. Not sure why it happened so quick though... assuming some sprocket wear is expected at 750 miles. Maybe not. But I'll be checking it every once and a while.

Lastly, The Ironman sprocket did tighten up the backlash I had with my stock CS. There was still a little bit of wiggle, but it is noticably tighter. I'm curious if I'll like the 14 tooth or not.

I'm going to try another MFG sprocket in the next couple days or so... Keep you posted.

Thanks for everyone's help

I wouldnt say you are overeacting to this issue....but I think its fair to say the CS sprocket is going to slide around a bit...which would be considered normal...some do fail though

I have heard great things about that ironman stuff though......

 

[ioneater]

Slightly resurrecting this thread after replacing my 13T OEM with a Sprocket Specialties 13T from Motosportz. (Thx Kelly) I noticed a bit of radial play in my OEM sprocket before the Baja ride so decided to replace it with a new one after getting back. The sprocket itself was the culprit. The new one fit very snug on the CS with no play axial or radial. Am curious to see if it remains this way with miles (hours up here) put on it as the C clip fit with no play at all, barely engaging the groove. Rock on!