125-200cc Consensus on the stock CR 125 forks?

[venturini]

So I just purchased a '13 CR 125. I plan to race it in several WI Harescrambles this year in A class. Running 160-165 pounds right now. Only about 2 hours on it because the trails are flooded out but man oh man, the forks need some work. I know that they are not "broken in" yet with only two hours but this is my third new bike and so far I never had such a "violent" set of forks before. My first new bike was an '11 TE 310---while the suspension is nothing special by any means, overall it was ridable. The second new bike was a '12 KTM 250 XC----I rode it in stock form for an entire season with only minor clicker adjustements and it served me very well.

Now I'm running in this '13 CR 125-----hitting obstacles in a straight line it's fine but the issue for me is when the bike is leaned even slightly and I hit nasty roots, the forks want to kick out on me. It's such a bad jolt that each time I was sure that I was going to crash but thankfully didn't. For reference, I am standing, weight forward when this happens. I've tried two softer on the fork compression and it was slightly better but now, as I stated, we're flooded out so no riding through the nasty sections to test it.

OK, so that is the background. My next question is, is it even worth trying to race HS's all year chasing clicker settings or just send it off to get worked. And my MAIN question is, what are the known "issues" with the stock forks that I should be aware off, i.e., harsh mid stroke, bottoming bad on big jumps even when sprung correctly (no real way to test this right now and don't want to find out during a race) etc. etc.

It would be nice too to know it this bike needs an unusual sag setting to really rock in the handling department.

Other than the forks, the little screamer is a hoot. I turned down the offer from the dealer to put on the "old style" Mikuni carb because I know I'm getting a Lectron soon----wish I hadn't because the stock carb ain't nothing special by any means, even after two hours of jetting to get it the best it could be it still sucks from 0 to 1/4 throttle but hopefully that will change after the engine breaks in and I've settled on a ratio (don't worry, I don't need any advise about pre-mix ratios :-) One more week and I can get the Lectron ordered from Motosportz but if the suspension needs revalving then the Lectron will have to wait another month.

 

[braddenning]

I DONT KNOW IF THEY ARE THE SAME FORKS AS A WR 300 BUT THEY PERFORM THE SAME ****************************************!! no matter what i had done the bike deflected like a pinball, so i got a pair of closed cartridge forks from a 12 TC 449 and had them gone over by WER and man !!! its a whole new bike !!!

 

[old3]

Husky and Marzocci do some weird stuff in their forks. I had a set of 3 06's and stock they were all goofy except the SMR which was pretty good for MX right out of the box. My TC450 was horrid/dangerous.

The good news is that they can be made to work. My guy built a set of 1999 45mms for my 125 and they are great. He did a bunch inside them, not just valving as I understand it. They were in a lathe for a good while, LOL!

 

[Watky]

MY 2011 wr 150 xc with the open chamber marzocchi were ordinary stock, even when broken in. They were harsh, had a terrible mid stroke spike & wouldnt settle in corners. All my other bikes have had Ohlins forks and shocks and the stock marzocchi forks on the husky were pitiful when compared.

Had them revalved retaining the same fork springs & the difference was huge once the clickers were dialed in & even more so once I got the forks positioned correctly on the axle**************************************** Got rid of the stock axle puller type and put the standard Non axle puller axle on.

The words from the suspension tuner when he was pulling the forks apart were along the lines of : Wow these are FF____ sh---t, Way to much fork preload, fork oil too heavy & no wonder it handles shit the shim layout is F---- atrocious. But this is good as you are going to feel the difference as it will be like night & day. He performed some of his secret mods & did his thing with the shims, set pre load at 0 - 0.5mm I think And then attacked the shock and did his thing on that. And wow the bike settles in corners, there is no more harsh spikes and it soaks up roots well, but the biggest benefit I find is sharp square edge hits or holes you didn't see are now soaked up and you no longer get the bars slamming you and jarring your shoulders. rocky trails the bike tracks a lot straighter now. prior the bike would be deflecting the whole way along the rocky trail.

 

[old3]

My 06 TC450 would be uber harsh on little stuff then blow thru right to bottoming hard on anything slightly bigger. Bizarre to say the least, the opposite of progressive. I've heard of more than a few brand new sets being built incorrectly and missing a part here and there too...

 

[Tinken]

We rebuild the insides of the stock forks for racing. On Ty's cr125, we replaced the stock shocks with his favorite Marzocchi 48mm shivers.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/braaaaap-world-finals-husky-1-2-5-challenge.31852/#post-295635

 

[PC.]

MY 2011 wr 150 xc with the open chamber marzocchi were ordinary stock, even when broken in. They were harsh, had a terrible mid stroke spike & wouldnt settle in corners. All my other bikes have had Ohlins forks and shocks and the stock marzocchi forks on the husky were pitiful when compared.

What bike did you get the open chambered forks from? I dont think the 125's have ever come stock with open chambered 50's before.

I stole the open-chambered 50mm Zokes from my wr300 and put them on the 165 and it rules. Soaks up the small stuff much better and the front end feels very planted. I could never get this same feeling with the stock dual chambered 50's even after a few revalves.

 

[venturini]

Lots of references to the Zokes but my '13 has KYB.

It's a bit of a shame that the bike that is labeled as "better handling" when compared to the KTM 150s, is turning out to have harsh forks---for the price I paid after discount I can live with an extra $500 right away to get the suspension sorted but it would have been nice to at least get 40 hours out of the stock set-up before a rebuild/revalve. That is at least what I was able to do with my KTM 250 XC.

 

[Watky]

What bike did you get the open chambered forks from? I dont think the 125's have ever come stock with open chambered 50's before.

I stole the open-chambered 50mm Zokes from my wr300 and put them on the 165 and it rules. Soaks up the small stuff much better and the front end feels very planted. I could never get this same feeling with the stock dual chambered 50's even after a few revalves.

Here in Aus the 2011 wr 150 xc came stock with open chamber 50mm forks.. The CR150 came with closed chamber forks

 

[old3]

Ewwww. Sorry, didn't think they had them too. Should be an easy fix at any good tuner anyway. Think about checking and dropping the oil height maybe?

 

[venturini]

I thought about it---never messed with KYB forks before and my POS thumb-drive won't display the forks page in English or German so I'm sunk unless I can get a good translation from the other languages that do display the info for the forks.

How much less oil would be recommended?

 

[old3]

I'd go right to the minimum amount so you really feel it and see if that gets you in the right direction. You can always add more as or if you need it. Get a measurement before to have a base line.

 

[Watky]

Ahhh there is your problem right there!!!
CR = valved for MX
The KTM XC = valved for woods

If husky can't even sort their valving for the WR which is their woods bike, then one can only imagine the Cr is even worse if used in the woods!

Get it revalved for woods and I'm guessing the problem will go away..

Everyone raves about how good the CR engine is for the trails but few make comment about the suspension.

 

[Zomby woof]

I would try changing the oil first before you even think about spending money on valving. I find most modern stuff to be way over damped for my liking, and have had excellent results with lighter viscosity oils. I have a good resource if you're interested.

 

[make meh samich]

I had exactly the same experience with my kyb's. I changed the oil as suggested, was a bit better, then backed compression all the way out. Became rideable but far less than confidence inspiring. Some posts have suggested dropping spring rates, which I told my tuner, but he said they were perfect for my 79 kgs. So he revalved forks and shock, $450 later, couldn't be happier!

 

[Max Payne]

What bike did you get the open chambered forks from? I dont think the 125's have ever come stock with open chambered 50's before.

I stole the open-chambered 50mm Zokes from my wr300 and put them on the 165 and it rules. Soaks up the small stuff much better and the front end feels very planted. I could never get this same feeling with the stock dual chambered 50's even after a few revalves.

My 2011 WR150 (bought from BMP) came with the 50mm open chambered 'Zokes as well. I didn't like them near as much as I liked the twin chambered 'Zokes on my 2008 TXC250. I just got them back from Les at LTR so I'm hoping for a magic carpet ride soon.

 

[Micfasto]

These work very well on the closed cartridge KYBs
http://www.mergeracing.com/products/RisingRateSprings.php

 

[Vinduro]

Go to .40 or even .38 fork springs. Stock is .42. Same as bigger bikes and my KTM530 had .42 springs. Quite a bit of difference in weight. I weigh 185lbs+. I use .40 springs and reduce high speed compression damping by at least 20-25%. By the same token , I had to go up 5 sizes on rear shock spring. From a 5kg to a 6kg. You have to run too much preload on the stock spring so you have almost no static sag. Now I have 33mm static and 103m rider sags. Very plush ride. 8mm or less on shock spring preload.

 

[venturini]

I would try changing the oil first before you even think about spending money on valving. I find most modern stuff to be way over damped for my liking, and have had excellent results with lighter viscosity oils. I have a good resource if you're interested.

Always interested in good resources.

BTW--any chance you have the info on recommended oil levels and stock viscocity--my thumb drive only reads that page in French and Italian.

 

[venturini]

Go to .40 or even .38 fork springs. Stock is .42. Same as bigger bikes and my KTM530 had .42 springs. Quite a bit of difference in weight. I weigh 185lbs+. I use .40 springs and reduce high speed compression damping by at least 20-25%. By the same token , I had to go up 5 sizes on rear shock spring. From a 5kg to a 6kg. You have to run too much preload on the stock spring so you have almost no static sag. Now I have 33mm static and 103m rider sags. Very plush ride. 8mm or less on shock spring preload.

Interesting---I was able to use stock spring rates on all my bikes so far, including an 08 Honda CRF 450 and my '12 KTM 250 XC, both tuned by Factory Connection. Can't remember the CRF rates but the KTM is sprung with .45 up front and 5.5 in back---that bike soaks up everything at an A rider pace.

So what exactly is going on there in the CR suspension that's requiring such drastic changes.

Thinking of sending them off to Halls but Jay wasn't reachable by phone to discuss the issue with.