Connectors going into plastic tanks......spinning tank insert

[River-Runner]

OK, I screwed up real bad and didn't use anti-seize on the bolts holding the plastic on my wife's 310. I've got two of them spinning the insert molded into the plastic tank. I assume the same story for all the old Huskies....I've not yet checked my 511 - one bike at a time for spring maintenance. Only so much anxiety at a time......

I've put some Kroil on when I discovered it this evening and I think I'll try shooting another squirt each day and just wait for several days and cross my fingers.

Anyone with a double-cross-your-heart-secret way to fix this problem? Can't really use heat given the bolts are holding the plastic.....

I'm going to stop and put anti-seize on every bolt like this on the 310, 511 and 690's. I know I did this when I got the 690's, I've learned a lot about keeping a bike going from this forum - thanks guys.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

yeah, it's a problem with lotsa bikes.

subject shift:
Hit your chain adjusters with anti-seize if you haven't already; it's a much worse problem. Don't even loosen the axle: back the nuts way off, dab some anti-seize on the adjusters, screw them all the way in, and then back out. Tighten the nut... you're done.

tank nutserts:
the basic fix is to spin 'em out, hit 'em with anti-seize, glue 'em back in. I've heard of people remelting the plastic around them, but I haven't seen any reports of that working. Polypropylene and polyethylene (tanks, shrouds, fenders) don't really like glue- but there are lotsa reports of JB weld (it's an epoxy) of working pretty good in this situation.

here's some threads:
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/molded-in-threaded-inserts-tips-on-removing-the-bolts.84874/#

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/stripped-airbox-nut.26262/

if they are already spinning, I doubt Kroil or PB Blaster or any other miracle in a can is gonna work- but give it a try anyway.

Spinning them out by using a drill is basically melting the plastic.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

btw, use anti-seize on the nutserts that hold your fuel pump plate and any petcock you might have- those are way more important than tank shrouds, etc.

I don't know what the torque is on all these- but I'd guess 3lbs or even less. Use a nut driver, not a socket or wrench- if you can.

 

[268fords]

Galvanic corrosion has caused the bolts to seize. Dissimilar metals. Chuck the bolt head in a drill and spin em out with the heat it creates. JB weld has been holding fine for mine for many years now. When reinstalling bolts, I used silicone and hand tightened the bolts. My post is in the first link that trenchcoat85 put up.

 

[EUROJulian]

To remove hit with air gun with some tension on the nut. Galling is common issue with stainless steel threaded joints. Stainless can sieze even under finger tight torque...

 

[River-Runner]

Sounds like the destructive approach may be the only solution.....darn.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Sounds like the destructive approach may be the only solution.....darn.

you should be okay- it's not rocket surgery. OTOH, take pictures to teach the next gen riders.

good luck.

 

[River-Runner]

OK, so using an impact hammer drill, I got the inserts hot enough to pull up and out of the plastic by spinning them. My battery powered drill didn't have the torque for the job. Thanks for the guidance folks RE: Spinning Technique..

The anchor that goes back into the tank plastic is significantly bigger than the hole it came out of, the plastic must have stretched while warm. Now I'm left with a hole smaller than the anchor that goes back in it. Trenchcoat - got an idea?

I'm thinking: Use brake cleaner to clean the holes of Kroil...blow out the holes well...always cleaning up after bad ideas....
1) Drill out the top of the hole so the anchor can be pushed back in there - I'll first flood the hole with JB Weld?
2) Put JB Weld into the hole, then push the anchor into the hole - I'll heat up the anchor so it burns through or stretches the tank plastic.

Thanks for the idea of using play dough in the threaded shaft of the anchor to keep the JB Weld out- I would have plugged it up for sure!

Anybody have a 3rd option that has worked in the past to get the anchor back in? I'm pulling the ideas out of my butt....

 

[Trenchcoat85]

big insert, little hole: this might be a good thing.

clean it off. dry fit it- i'm thinking you can force it into the hole.

if that works, remove it. hit the hole with carb cleaner or brake cleaner- and the insert too. carefully treat the female threads with anti-seize (maybe use ford's idea: bottom threads anti-seize, top threads with rtv silicone for vibration resistance). before gluing, I'd stick a lightly-oiled bolt in them as a handle (also keeps glue out of threads; oil lightly the bolt bottom too). put the glue in the tank, insert the insert (hah) and wait 24hrs (although i'd give your bolt handle a small twist when the epoxy starts to take off just to keep it clear of the threads)

...and if it didn't work (the dry fit), I'd enlarge the hole: heat the insert up (hold by a bolt) and press it into the tank; let it cool. Hell, maybe you just fixed too; if not- try the glue thing above. maybe I should say this: push it in gently, stop the pressure when it bottoms, then wait. don't get it glowing-red-hot, I'd hate for you to go all the way through the tank!

btw, I wouldn't flood the holes with JB Weld, but I'd put enough to squeeze out the sides and form over the top of the insert.

pictures!

 

[River-Runner]

Trenchcoat - I looked at the 310 tank again last night and that anchor is not going back into the hole where it came from without the tank being warmed up - not 500 degrees, but maybe 200 so the plastic becomes pliable. Heat and softened plastic is the reason I could get the anchor out - so I figure use LOW heat to get it back in. If the heat option does not work, I'll enlarge the hole, with JB Weld to freeze it into the plastic.
Ordered a variable heat - heat gun last night - should be here in a couple of days.

I will have to do a dry run with JB Weld and heat. I don't know how much faster heat will make the stuff set up.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Trenchcoat - I looked at the 310 tank again last night and that anchor is not going back into the hole where it came from without the tank being warmed up - not 500 degrees, but maybe 200 so the plastic becomes pliable. Heat and softened plastic is the reason I could get the anchor out - so I figure use LOW heat to get it back in. If the heat option does not work, I'll enlarge the hole, with JB Weld to freeze it into the plastic.
Ordered a variable heat - heat gun last night - should be here in a couple of days.

I will have to do a dry run with JB Weld and heat. I don't know how much faster heat will make the stuff set up.

I do not think that this plan is the right one. Exercise extreme caution.

did you put a bolt on the nutsert and actually try to insert it? ...you might be surprised- and it costs nothing to try. Plastic can be pretty plastic.

if you are committed to try heat, why not heat up just the nutsert itself (not the tank)?

And btw, the heat was just to soften the plastic up; not to speed up the epoxy cure time (which we shouldn't care too much about). When I mentioned heat, I meant no epoxy yet. In fact if you're insanely lucky, you might not need it after the nutsert cools. If it turns out you need to glue it in, pop it out and glue it in.

A dry run would exclude the JB Weld and heat. else it wouldn't be a dry run.

be wary of turning a "10 cent" problem into something that could cost you a new tank (or house?)

good luck.

 

[268fords]

What about trying to trim the hole a little bit with a sharp razor blade. Or like trenchcoat85 said, heat the insert up with a bolt in it and try to gently reseat it. I wouldn't use a heat gun.

 

[hellbergarn]

If you cut off the head you can spinn them off by hand

 

[River-Runner]

I do not think that this plan is the right one. Exercise extreme caution.

did you put a bolt on the nutsert and actually try to insert it? ...you might be surprised- and it costs nothing to try. Plastic can be pretty plastic.

if you are committed to try heat, why not heat up just the nutsert itself (not the tank)?

And btw, the heat was just to soften the plastic up; not to speed up the epoxy cure time (which we shouldn't care too much about). When I mentioned heat, I meant no epoxy yet. In fact if you're insanely lucky, you might not need it after the nutsert cools. If it turns out you need to glue it in, pop it out and glue it in.

A dry run would exclude the JB Weld and heat. else it wouldn't be a dry run.

be wary of turning a "10 cent" problem into something that could cost you a new tank (or house?)

good luck.

TC: Plastic at room temp is way too rigid to reinsert the anchor. Waiting on some Vapor parts (heat sensor) before I fix the tank bolts.

 

[bent70]

I just did this. I put in a longer bolt and pulled it out with pliers prying it. Filled hole with jb weld and with bolt still in the nutcert, but not siezed, I placed it over the hle and gave it a few taps with a hammer. It pooped right back in. It's easier than it looks