Clutch whine while Engaged and under load??? (sound clip included)

[Jornum1]

I have read through all the Clutch whine threads and almost all say that their clutch whines while it is in neutral or with the clutch pulled in. Mine is different

History
I bought this bike and it was not running. The kicker stop broke off, and the PO had removed and sold the E start previously. I got a great deal, I trusted the seller and ended up helping me get it running once I bought a E start. I have had this sound since day one once it was all back together.

This sound is opposite from most others. When in neutral or with the clutch pulled in there is no sound.
The other thing I noticed is that the sound only comes on under load. If I am coasting down a hill in gear with no throttle there is no sound. But once I roll on the throttle the sound comes on.

So could this sound be from the transmission instead of the clutch itself? Any idea what could be causing this?

The bike performs great, shifts through all gears fine, has plenty of power. I have no experience with Husky's so I am in the dark.

I have not been able to put the hours that I would have liked. Now I am getting it ready to go back on the street and am concerned with this sound now.

If anyone can shed some light on this I would appreciate it.

Video is pretty useless, I just sat my phone on the seat while I took a spin. I just wanted to capture the audio. Not sure how to embed photobucket videos, but here is the direct link

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...tion=view&current=2012-03-08_16-18-19_937.mp4

Thanks in advance,
Jay

 

[Xcuvator]

When the clutch is pulled in there is no load on the transmission bearings, it is quiet. I know it isn't what you want to hear, but I would suspect a trans. bearing. You didn't say what bike it is, but with estart, I guess it's a TE. Have you looked at the oil filter and magnetic plug to see if there is metal? Does the transmission shift ok? How many miles hours on the bike?
I would probably take the clutch and sprocket off and see if I could feel anything rough in the shafts.
Hopefully someone who has been where you are will chime in.

 

[Jornum1]

Thanks, thats what I was suspecting it could be, but was afraid to say!
It is a 06 TE450
The engine was rebuilt by Town and Country Husqvarna in Northern NJ shortly before I bought it. The previous owner said it had about 80 hours on it. I probably have not put more then 20 on it since I have had it. I only have about 15 acres of dense woods on my property and due to it not being registered for the street yet I have not put many hours on it.
It shifts fine 1st-3rd, I havent even had a chance to get it out of 3rd. I just changed the oil again yesterday and there was a bit of metal on the plug, but nothing alarming.
Its just strange because from what I can tell at least it rides perfectly normal. No clunking, no hard shifting. Other then the noise its a dream to ride.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Hopefully some others can confirm this.

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

I'd inspect the clutch components- looking for wear and minimum specs (mic the plates and springs)... if nothing - then I'd move on to the trans bearings as stated...

both sorry and glad to say I have no experience with that sound, sorry....
oh yea just recalled that some KTM LC4 motors sound like that and they think its normal (best false hope I can offer)

 

[R_Little]

It's not normal. Something is rubbing in there. My loose clutch pressure plate bolts made the same noise. Maybe a loose clutch bolt/bushing? Worn tranmission.

Take the clutch side engine cover off....the big cover, not the small cutch cover.

Take the clutch basket off and check for noise in the trans shaft while spinning it .

Take the chain off and shift the bike and try to replicate the noise.

Look for wear on the bearings and loose bolts on that cutch.

Could be a bearing...could be a lot of stuff you need to look.

I'm in No NJ

Maybe I can stop by to help you.

 

[Jornum1]

I did pull it off, but I was looking more specifically in clutch basket itself. I had kinda dismissed it as I read a bunch of threads about a "normal" noise for a husky, but then realized mine was when the clutch was engaged not disengaged. And then yesterday noticed how it was only under load.
Let me see what I find when I pull the clutch again. If its beyond that I would appreciate any help R_little. Every tear your motor down? :-)
I am mechanically inclined, have a machine shop on premises, but just have never had to tear a whole motor down. I am sure I can do it, but its always easier when you have someone who has done it before.

Thanks everyone, will let you know what I find.

 

[R_Little]

I've done it a bunch of times.

They do come apart rather easy.....maybe we'll be lucky and it won't need to come out.

Rich

 

[Jornum1]

Oh really? Well like you said maybe I will get lucky. Hoping to tear into the clutch this afternoon after work. Will post what I find.

Thanks again, good to know there is someone local who knows what they are doing ;-)
Where are you from btw? I am in North Haledon, passiac county.

 

[R_Little]

Dumont, Bergen County. Can't be that far.

 

[Jornum1]

Nah, 20 minutes. I am right outside franklin lakes and Wayne.
Where the heck so you ride out that way?!

 

[Jornum1]

So pulled the clutch and cover off this afternoon. I honestly cant see anything wrong.
I also pulled the sprocket. I can not feel and play or any rough feeling on the clutch or drive side.
There is a little "slack" in the engagement between the two.

Is it possible to use a high speed drill with a 27mm socket to try to reproduce the noise? I just want to confirm that its drive system, and not the clutch.

Here are some pics in case anyone can see something I am not.

Also is this area normal? It looks to be machined, but just making sure.

 

[mnb]

What's that broken thing above the left most gear in the first pic?

 

[Jornum1]

That is the kick start stop that had broke off. It was like that when I bought it. I added the e start since then. I actually have the piece that broke off somewhere in the pile of parts that the PO gave me.

 

[R_Little]

Then you don't need that idler gear either. You know the bike was designed to run with a complete kickstart assembly. Could be the idler gear whirring. Is the idler on the end of the trans output shaft?

The slack in your trans is normal.

Are there any wear marks on the clutch basket. Was the bolt on the clutch basket tight?

Does the clutch basket or hub whobble a lot?

 

[R_Little]

BTW, the new x-light motor is a lot simpler than that!

That motor has a lot of gears and stuff! The X-light has none!

 

[Jornum1]

Then you don't need that idler gear either. You know the bike was designed to run with a complete kickstart assembly. Could be the idler gear whirring. Is the idler on the end of the trans output shaft?

The slack in your trans is normal.

Are there any wear marks on the clutch basket. Was the bolt on the clutch basket tight?

Does the clutch basket or hub whobble a lot?

ok let me run down all this :-)

-No I didnt know that it was meant to run with the kick start assembly Everything was out of it when I got the bike, clutch and kick start. I bought the estart off ebay and installed it myself.

-So should I reinstall the kick assembly or try removing that idler

- The shaft spins, and the gear spins along with it, but can be stopped. As in its just floating on the shaft.

-No wear marks on the basket that I remember will take some pics of that in the morning.

- the clutch basket nut was tight, and there was no wobble at all between the two. Just that little bit of slack from the shaft. Everything seemed as it should. I have changed quite a few clutches and dont see anything out of the ordinary.

So in conclusion, do you think it could be as simple as removing that idler?
It makes sense if you think about it. The bike rides completely fine, shifts through the gears normally. its just that damn noise.

 

[cjard]

You know.. that noise does sound quite a bit like the whine i hear when my LTZ quad coughs out and briefly cycles backward, engaging the starter motor clutch and spinning the starter motor - it's the starter motor that makes the chatter/whirr when it's being driven rather than driving. While I can't think of how it would come to be that the noise is ony heard under load, I did wonder if unbolting the starter motor, bump starting the bike and seeing if it's still audible would be a worthwhile test..

 

[Jornum1]

At this point I would be willing to try anything!
I am thinking of removing the idler, put it back together, and pray! If that does not work maybe I will get it warm and pull the starter just to rule it out. Like you said I would think the noise would be present at all times due to the starter being linked to the flywheel not just under load.

Thanks!

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

Oh..... don't know why I didn't think of this before (I even mentioned a ktm) AND/since you have it this far apart...

YOU may want to check the Primary Nut on the Crankshaft- ktms' (some) were notorious for it- but since your bike was supposedly rebuilt they may not have torqued it properly- I have never heard of them loosening on Husky's but its worth checking. Check manual for torque and locktite specs- and check both ends (clutch side/flywheel side)- If loose, we'd replace with new nuts (cause they were left thread aluminum) woodruff keys.... the sound was very similar. (whirling with load) they'd loosen/tighten/loosen tighten with the motor- and should be torqued fairly heavily- often could be found "almost hand tight" as a sign.

 

[Jornum1]

Thanks for the idea. I might have to look into that.

So I found some good and bad news.
I found out that I am a idiot and did not realize there was a washer that goes on before the bushing for the clutch. This brings the basket a little closer to the drive shaft which that idler sprocket was on. I went to take the idler off and after removing the circlip it wouldnt come off. After wiping it down I noticed the surface of the shaft was scraped up and was preventing the sprocket from coming off. a little tug and it came off along with a few metal shavings where the shaft had burred off the side. I looked on the back of the clutch basket and noticed there was some scuffs on there as well. It doesnt look like it really damamged anything. Both shafts are still smooth and have no play.

SOOO I put it back together and was praying the noise would be gone. It wasnt..... Still there. But that does explain the shavings on my drain plug and filter.
I noticed my neighbor outside and asked him to come in. I had the bike on atv stand and lifted it enough to relieve some of the pressure on the rear wheel and had him give it throttle in gear while putting some pressure on the rear to put some load on the drive system. I was then able to walk around the bike and investigate the noise further.
I am feeling very stupid because now I have noticed it seems to be coming from the top end
It was very hard to tell because I had to be on the bike in order to put load on the drivetrain. I ran out of time and was unable to investigate further.
Can a loose or incorrectly seated cam chain tensioner cause a noise like this? That was my first guess.
Anyone else have any ideas now?
With all that, at least I figured out I was missing that washer. But the saga continues!