125-200cc Clutch slip on 165

[rockdancer]

I think I need a new clutch
Ive been wondering for a while why my bike was making a lot of noise and not much action
Felt like it was hitting a wall mid to top end
When I have the clutch adjusted with plenty of action on lever it does this but when I loosen the clutch right back at the lever so there is only a small amount of clutch available the bike is revving out properly and pulls well into the power band.

So the clutch seems to be coming on or slipping . This is happening at around 40 - 50 mph
Didn't think it would be due for a new clutch yet but the bike is just three years old- probably 100 hrs.
12 hrs on 165 kit.
This may be a common issue with the clutch and 165 kit ?
Wondering if there are more robust clutches available.

Ive also changed cable and levers to ASV which I think are pulling the cable more due to size of adjuster so not sure if I have adjustment wrong somewhere .

Bike was pulling great up the hills though - couldn't believe the down low pull - just need more clutch to control bike

 

[wallybean]

Lots of time on the stock clutches on both of mine. I haven't replaced plates or housing no wear to speak of. If your clutch had started to wear and notch up the housing and hub then the 165 would help that along.

 

[rockdancer]

What do I look for if I pull it apart ? How do you check for clutch wear?
I guess I could try the manual .

Pulled an extra 7mph up top when I backed off the clutch

 

[Aviduser]

Notched basket, burnt/blued friction plates/discs. There's specs in the manual u can mic the plates.

 

[Motosportz]

100 hours? Unless your clutch was adjusted wrong (no free play) or you are a total clutch abuser, or you ran oil with friction modifiers in it I dont see it being bad. These a super robust clutches in these. I have abused the shit out of mine for 4x that time and zero issues. Pull the plates, measure them to see if the frictions are in limits and see if the steel plates look like they got hot (blue). Make sure your cable is well lubed and everything is free.

 

[rockdancer]

100 hours? Unless your clutch was adjusted wrong (no free play) or you are a total clutch abuser, or you ran oil with friction modifiers in it I dont see it being bad. These a super robust clutches in these. I have abused the shit out of mine for 4x that time and zero issues. Pull the plates, measure them to see if the frictions are in limits and see if the steel plates look like they got hot (blue). Make sure your cable is well lubed and everything is free.

Thanks .
Its a new cable. There doesn't seem to be much range in movement in the arm where the cable attaches - probably less than an 1/2 inch .
Frictions - Will do - I am not familiar with clutches so It will be a learning process.

 

[MotoMarc36]

I feel these clutches are strong but lack spring clamping pressure and therefore are barely adequate when ridden hard at MX. Makes for a buttery-smooth and light clutch pull but I think they went a bit too far. I have 31 hours of strictly MX racing and MX practice on mine, clutch felt suspect at about 25 hours and I bought a new pack, but it hasn't given out yet. I really think some slightly stiffer springs is all this clutch needs to be abuse-proof.

 

[rockdancer]

I took the current ASV lever off my CR and when I put the standard lever off this bike on it the same sort of thing happened to that bike but I was able to adjust middle adjuster on cable . Different levers were needing a much different adjustment on middle cable adjuster .
Problem may be related somewhat to adjustment - but cant seem to get any range in clutch without it tensioning - and slipping the clutch on this bike .
Is there adjustment inside clutch ?

Edit : Whats a pack? - the plates ?

 

[MotoMarc36]

A "clutch pack " is the full assembly of alternating steel and fiber plates, which is how Husky sells them, as a complete set. There is no internal adjustment on these. My experience with these clutches is that very little movement is needed to get disengagement. It should be disengaging before the handlebar lever is even halfway through it's range. This is with some freeplay at the lever of course. Do you have a grasp on proper lever freeplay?

 

[rockdancer]

free play - how much would you say is normal ?
at the moment I seem have to have too much free play and if I reduce it the clutch seems to be coming on- but only when riding at speed
Id say half of the lever action is not even pulling cable
I know someone else rode my bike ( surfingboyo) and couldn't ride it - as not enough clutch

 

[Aviduser]

3mm freeplay from perch to lever is spec'd in the husky manual. Or in other words where the cable goes through the lever.

*Note, This is purely play before the lever pulls on the cable.

If we are on the same page, you've got a ridiculous amount of freeplay. Get that dialed in first and foremost.

To inspect your clutch lay the bike on its left side, pull the cover off then the 4 retaining bolts with springs. Next is the pressure plate, then actuator rod in the center. Then simply pull all of the discs out. (Be aware there is a roller bearing washer, plus a ball bearing that are part of the actuator rod assembly)

During reassembly make sure you start and end with a friction plate. The manual depicts all of this and it really is very easy. In fact I learned to do it before a top end.

 

[Watky]

I noticed your clutch adjustment was up the shit when I rode your bike.
The new cable you installed along with those ASV levers, was it a cable specific to the ASV levers or just a new OEM husky cable?
I've read in other posts you need the cable specific to the ASV lever otherwise you can't get correct adjustment of the clutch due to leverage ratio of that lever.
2 - 3mm free play is what your after.

 

[rockdancer]

I noticed your clutch adjustment was up the shit when I rode your bike.
The new cable you installed along wth those ASV levers, was it a cable specific to the ASV levers or just a new OEM husky cable?
I've read in other posts you need the cable specific to the ASV lever otherwise you can't get correct adjustment of the clutch due to leverage ratio of that lever.
2 - 3mm free play is what your after.

Standard cable . I was wondering if the ASV lever may have something to do with it - I may buy a standard lever first. I dont get why it would though.

My friction plates are all around 2.8mm - new is 3mm and 2.9mm the minimum so it sounds like I need new clutch kit
$150 - not as bad as I thought
Steel Plates look pretty good to me with very small signs of wear ( not that i know what to look for) - pics below
Seems to be similar straight lines on one side of all plates - inside and radial lines on other side

The clearance between clutch housing and friction plate teeth is over .5mm - .35mm is limit..
springs are 41mm and are ok still - can be down to 40mm

 

[Watky]

http://asvinventions.com/Quad-FAQs.html Read the last two F&Q's relating to clutch adjustment issue

 

[rockdancer]

No Luke there is no problem taking up the slack with the centre cable adjuster - its just that i have to back it off for extra play or it slips

I am going to try Motul Transoil Expert oil and see if that helps

I am wondering if anyone has tried stronger springs - wouldnt mnd a bit more bite to the clutch

How do you know if the clutch housing is worn ? Is there a certain symptom?

 

[Kyle Tarry]

The housing fingers will be "notched" if they are worn. Here is a badly notched basket:

 

[MotoMarc36]

^^ Wow KT nice job trashing a basket!! I can't stand the grabbiness and lurching LOOOONG before they get that bad!

Anyway ABSOLUTELY always replace your clutch springs with new ones even standard OEM ones. EVERY time you service your clutch. Even though they "measure" in spec, that does not detect a loss in spring-rate from heat cycles, it only shows a loss of preload. Replacing a clutch pack without replacing the springs is a lot like putting in a new piston, but using the old piston ring. No one would do that.

I'm researching some slightly stiffer springs but have not settled on anything yet.

 

[Motosportz]

Replacing a clutch pack without replacing the springs is a lot like putting in a new piston, but using the old piston ring. No one would do that.

I have never replaced clutch springs and never had an issue. Replaced many a clutch pack though. In fact just did on my 04 CR165. Works fine.

 

[Motosportz]

I'm researching some slightly stiffer springs but have not settled on anything yet.

you can also preload the stock springs a little more with washers.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

I'm not a huge believer in "spring fatigue", to be honest. I work with springs a lot, and generally they are pretty consistent over a long lifetime. Doesn't hurt to replace them every once and a while though.

I don't have a 125, but on my 300 I actually went with slightly softer clutch springs (about 20%). It reduced the pull at the lever and I've never felt any slip. Most of my riding is woods singletrack lugging the motor, so if I was up on the pipe a lot (GNCC or MX), I'd stick with the stiffer stock springs.