Clutch pack questions

[outboardguy]

My clutch pull on my bike seems excessively hard. I removed the clutch cover a while back and found a couple of the aluminum (steels) slightly bent enough to make them not come off easily. I finessed them a bit and they slid on better. My thought was I had the clutch cable adjusted too tight to get them to release and with them bent they wouldn't release easily.

It seemed better but not right. I decided to go with the barnett steels. I ordered the 1.2mm thickness ones. I then removed my cover to find my bike has the 1.5mm thickness steels.
If I stack the 1.2mm steels with my clutches the pressure plate never grabs the clutches together because the stack is too short.

I noticed on Husqvarna-parts that he carries 2 different thicknesses of fiber clutch and clutch plate. The fibers come in 3.5mm or 3.0mm. the steels come in 1.5mm or 1.2mm.

I'm assuming the 3.5mm fibers go with the 1.5mm plates as this is what my bike has. The fische says to use 6 fibers with 5 discs in this configuration.which would give a clutch pack thickness of 28.5mm
My bike for some reason had 6 clutch plates and 6 fibers. Giving me a 30mm pack. I'm guessing someone added an extra steel to make up for worn steels.

The other configuration for the clutch puts the 3mm fibers with the 1.2mm steels. The fische says to use 8 fibers with 7 discs. this would give a clutch pack thickness of 32.4mm.

Which combo of clutch packs is right for my bike? I'm guessing I should buy the 1.5mm steels.
But will the 3mm/ 1.2mm clutch pack work in my bike? Are these two different packs for different year models? Or different clutch basket depths?

Sorry for the ramble, but I'm confused a little as to my best course of action.
Thanks in advance

 

[fran...k.]

I can ramble pretty good too. At least with the Norton stuff my dealer at the time said there never really was a lot of transmission problems until they came out with the barnett plates. Those were the friciton ones. I would kind of try and stay with the sureflex plates which I think the stock ones are or at least resemble. Probably won't hurt with the metal ones. Do as you please. I have found different numbers of plates and matrials but will leave the main part of your post un answered. I did change out the seal on the clutch arm for the sealed bearing which I think made things easier. The bore that clutch actuating rod or half round can get pretty worn and the more worn it gets the more crud gets by the seal and becomes a cycle. It appears from the parts sheets when these morphed into the single cam seciton on this site a bushing was added to the bottom of that shaft. Pull out the half round thing and see if it is deformed, I made a thread about them a few months ago. Not sure exactly what hard means. I have one bike which sticks to the point the only way to get it to break loose is to kick it into gear at a stop after starting it but it works fine for the rest of the day.

Fran

 

[Joe Chod]

uhhh....what bike model/size/year?

 

[outboardguy]

It's a 1984 CR 500.

 

[Joe Chod]

I can understand your confusion on what plates. 84 to 86 was a clutch plate transition time for Husky.
75 to MOST 84 used the good old 3.5mm fiber and the 1.5 steel and 6 fiber/5 steel. ALL
in 84-86 some used 6/5...some 7/6....and some 8/7 and some were thickcombo and some thin combo! (3.5's vs. 3.0's and 1.5's vs.1.2's) ARGGH!. 87 and 88 was again changed (trying for smoother action and pull to keep up with Japanese models)
The 84 CR 500 used 6 3.5 fibers and 5 1.5 steels. All day...all the way. Total of28.5mm

using the 3.0's and 1.2's in a 7 fiber/6 steel gives Total of 28.2mm

difference of .3mm (never tried it but so close itmight work)

Joe

 

[outboardguy]

using the 3.0's and 1.2's in a 7 fiber/6 steel gives Total of 28.2mm

difference of .3mm (never tried it but so close itmight work)

I am under the impression the 3.0's and 1.2's were in a 8 fiber 7 steel combo. Now being that I have worked on automatic transmissions, I'm thinking that the more fibers you stack in there the more surface area you have to grab with. Unfortunately I believe if you make the stack taller when you bolt the pressure plate on you compress the springs more which would give you a harder clutch handle feel. Also the center hub is only so tall and when you pull the handle the clutch release pin pushes the pressure plate further out. The pressure plate has splines on it, I don't remember how tall my center hub was, but I believe you need to leave room enough to release the clutches without the pressure plate leaving the splines.

The 84 CR 500 used 6 3.5 fibers and 5 1.5 steels. All day...all the way. Total of28.5mm

Ok,I'm going to lean toward the (6) 3.5 fibers and (5) 1.5 steels.

Thanks for the information and listening to my ramble

 

[outboardguy]

Also, being that i've never had a bike before, I have another question.
When you have the bike idling with the clutch hadle pulled in is it normal for the bike to lurch a tiny bit when it is kicked into 1st?
Mine lurches a bit and then stays still.

 

[fran...k.]

Joe, any comment on aluminum vs steel plates for the ones which aren't friction.

I kind of doubt one would want to change from the configuration which has notches worn into the ears on the basket. Now if you got a new basket that might be another thing. As for the cr 500, never had one but the primary reduction is more than the xc 500 which already seemed to me to produce more torque at the plates than is optimum. More plates would hold more torque but have more drag when disengaged the way I view it.

Outboardguy, Unless your bike is something like a bmw with a dry clutch with one friction plate the chain will get a tug upon kicking into gear from neutral. Finding neutral before you come to a complete stop is one way to deal with this phenomenon.

 

[1982 XC 430]

So this Weekend I went for my 1st real Ride on my 82 250 XC. Had some Clutch issues of my own. On my first ride I thought the Clutch was slipping so I ordered new Parts ( Barnett) but when I took it apart the Fiber and Aluminum Discs looked almost new with little wear. Has the Yellow Springs. So I ajusted the Push Rod put it back togeather and ran it. When I raced the Bike ( Desert 100 Wa State) I had the oposite problem I overheated it doing a Hill Climb and then it wouldn't disingage all the way. After 1/2 Hour of rideing things cooled down and it worked as before. Draining my Fresh Trans Oil today it had turned dark allready after 50 miles of abuse. Its been a bit grabby and it has released with only 1/2" of Clutch Lever movement. I intend to make the Engine Clutch Arm longer for more leverage as per other threads here on the Cafe. So what works for these bikes? I see above that they started making changes on later bikes to make them more like the Japanese Bikes so did it work? Do the Barnett Steel Plates work well?. I'd like something more progressive. Thanx in advance...

 

[wrenchinremo]

Man I know that big bore clutches are a pain in the butt. I've always used Barnett plates as replacements for stock. After spending the money on the ones you've already purchashed. I'd just install one of the old smooth plates against the inner hub to build up the stack to fill that clearance gap. I'm a tightwad, Joe and Frank are more knowledgable than I am. but that little lock nut on the adjuster bolt is adjustable. once you install a shim here or there. never end your stack with a friction plate against the hub or basket, it will self destruct. I didn't know about the different thicknesses until Joe talked about the "optimum" stack thickness. I've mixed 4-stroke and 2-stroke plates with no problems at all, I just paid very close attention to how is went together and I'm a fanatic on adjustments. all Husky clutch pulls are stiff. even with an E-Z clutch actuator arm. Husky products offered the same thing, they are still available and will help, a tiny bit. I have a left fore arm like Popeye! I've watched many of my friends try to ride with an improperly adjusted new clutch that slips or they don't have any clearance at the pushrod and the lever won't pull all the way. then I end up laying the bike on it's side and pulling the darn cover (hopefully not tearing the gasket) and fixing it there on the trail. that program sucks, but you need to ride with others not alone. I've done that rountine more than three times. a husky clutch that is completely shredded should be the only situation where you have slippage, they are stiff for a reason. those plates, after the springs are tightened want to become one solid unit. that little bit of play that you force on them when you pull on the lever is what allows them to "slip" apart from each other, dis-engageing the pack and releasing the trans from the crank. They only move thounsandths of an inch from each other. get the adjustment correct the first time and never mess with it again. Remo