Actual news on the KTM purchase of Husqvarna

[ajaxauto]

Been looking for a reason NOT to drive 950 miles one way to race round 3 of the Nationals in Idaho this weeken.I have done it the last 5 years,so here is one. Need to save money so I can purchase a new KTM/Husky and a truck full of spares to keep it going .Glad the newest Husky I have is a 2010 300 Get this mess over with so I can diside where to purchase my next bike.

 

[boisedave]

I love the chatter. If I had to place bet and the choice was an either "Rebadged KTMS" or "Brand New and totally different Husky" -- I think the far safer bet is on a rebadged KTM. Makes some financial sense and and I agree with Walt, Kelly that that seems to be in the tea leaves.

But... because I am a glass is half-full guy. I am going to suggest that a "new" Husky [different maybe better] is still possible. What I am hoping is that SP's comments about taking on the Japs is his real, long-term goal. To do that -- you need to do some more stuff -- street bikes, play bikes, quads, generators, etc.. KTM is obviously better positioned to do that. For KTM to do that, they must reposition the brand from "niche" to mainstream. That leaves "Niche" open for Husky to fill.

The $64,000 question is how do they do this? [If this is a good prediction anyways?] I simply don't see adding Red KTMs [Husky] + Blue KTMs [Husa] + Orange as a way to achieve the goal of taking on the japs. Its just not ambitious enough. To me, it makes sense to take KTM more mainstream with bigger dealerships, more models, different price points, etc.. KTM seems to be doing this already with all the other stuff they do in Europe an Asia. I think it leaves room for Husky to evolve into the new KTM as KTM gets diluted.

How this "vision" is applied is what I am waiting for. I see some commonality -- I think engines perhaps makes sense. But it wouldn't surprise me to see some exclusive Husky stuff [and some exclusive KTM stuff]. They have the infrastructer to do it -- they have the manufacturing ability. KTM already has a ton of different engines -- a ton. 5 2-strokes + 4 4-strokes + all the street and minis = a ton. Let's call it 15. Why couldn't there be a seperate 250/300 x-lite + a seperate big bore two stroke + a new 450 x-lite? It would only be 20% more -- not huge IMHO. The real question is does it make business sense to keep Husky and KTM unique. I think it does -- in the long run.

What I am not sure it means is that current Husky models will remain. I think a more likely scenerio as the phasing out of Italian Husky's and you will see them replaced with Austrian Husky's -- not just rebadged bikes but something unique. Also something premium. Maybe for the next year or two they ill be rebadged, but down the line I see "unique" Huskys -- wholly different from KTM. KTM can fill a more mainstream market and Husky will be niche manufacturer focused on some core areas. Maybe I am completely full of sh$% -- this isn't my area of expertise. But I just don't see KTM challenging the Japs with 3 different colors. They need to be more ambitious than that.

I actually think you will see Husky being much more race oriented and competition focused than KTM. I think Husky will join MX at a level on par with KTM. You'll see factory support off-road here and abroad. The line wil be premium and race oriented. Think of unique Husky's with premium parts and race editions. SP already knows what rebading will do -- look at Husaberg. He knows his ability to take on the japs will be limited. He wants MORE. To do that -- the group needs to go after the same target in different ways. He is looking to take Husky to 100,000 and KTM to 1.5 million. I just don't think you do that with Red KTMs.

 

[MikeB]

Speculation is fun. Kind of like buying a lottery ticket and dreaming about what you'll do if you win. SP did say that he foresees KTM taking on Honda and Husky taking on the other 3 Japanese brands. Hard to say what that actually means - I don't think KTM will be making cars soon - but perhaps it does mean that KTM will become a full line motorcycle brand.
The first fruit of all of this will be a bike in the fall which should be a 450MX if the rumors are accurate. Any speculation - or real info - on it?

 

[joedirt]

You’re on a Husky, and from what I hear the bike has proven not just fast, but also really reliable.
Yeah, knock on wood, I haven’t had any major problems with it. We had a solid season on it last year. We had some small problems, some injector and fuel-pump things, but every brand has that when you’re racing this hard for this long, and I was still able to finish those races. I’ve never had a DNF on the bike, and I’m a big guy; I push it really, really hard. I really love the bike. People probably don’t have the trust in the Husqvarna yet, but I’m starting to see more of them. I can’t wait for their new 450 to come out.

From Delongs interview on racerX. He seems to know something about a new 450 thats coming out.

 

[Norman Foley]

I love the chatter. If I had to place bet and the choice was an either "Rebadged KTMS" or "Brand New and totally different Husky" -- I think the far safer bet is on a rebadged KTM. Makes some financial sense and and I agree with Walt, Kelly that that seems to be in the tea leaves.

But... because I am a glass is half-full guy. I am going to suggest that a "new" Husky [different maybe better] is still possible. What I am hoping is that SP's comments about taking on the Japs is his real, long-term goal. To do that -- you need to do some more stuff -- street bikes, play bikes, quads, generators, etc.. KTM is obviously better positioned to do that. For KTM to do that, they must reposition the brand from "niche" to mainstream. That leaves "Niche" open for Husky to fill.

The $64,000 question is how do they do this? [If this is a good prediction anyways?] I simply don't see adding Red KTMs [Husky] + Blue KTMs [Husa] + Orange as a way to achieve the goal of taking on the japs. Its just not ambitious enough. To me, it makes sense to take KTM more mainstream with bigger dealerships, more models, different price points, etc.. KTM seems to be doing this already with all the other stuff they do in Europe an Asia. I think it leaves room for Husky to evolve into the new KTM as KTM gets diluted.

How this "vision" is applied is what I am waiting for. I see some commonality -- I think engines perhaps makes sense. But it wouldn't surprise me to see some exclusive Husky stuff [and some exclusive KTM stuff]. They have the infrastructer to do it -- they have the manufacturing ability. KTM already has a ton of different engines -- a ton. 5 2-strokes + 4 4-strokes + all the street and minis = a ton. Let's call it 15. Why couldn't there be a seperate 250/300 x-lite + a seperate big bore two stroke + a new 450 x-lite? It would only be 20% more -- not huge IMHO. The real question is does it make business sense to keep Husky and KTM unique. I think it does -- in the long run.

What I am not sure it means is that current Husky models will remain. I think a more likely scenerio as the phasing out of Italian Husky's and you will see them replaced with Austrian Husky's -- not just rebadged bikes but something unique. Also something premium. Maybe for the next year or two they ill be rebadged, but down the line I see "unique" Huskys -- wholly different from KTM. KTM can fill a more mainstream market and Husky will be niche manufacturer focused on some core areas. Maybe I am completely full of sh$% -- this isn't my area of expertise. But I just don't see KTM challenging the Japs with 3 different colors. They need to be more ambitious than that.

I actually think you will see Husky being much more race oriented and competition focused than KTM. I think Husky will join MX at a level on par with KTM. You'll see factory support off-road here and abroad. The line wil be premium and race oriented. Think of unique Husky's with premium parts and race editions. SP already knows what rebading will do -- look at Husaberg. He knows his ability to take on the japs will be limited. He wants MORE. To do that -- the group needs to go after the same target in different ways. He is looking to take Husky to 100,000 and KTM to 1.5 million. I just don't think you do that with Red KTMs.

I think you're on point Dave.... There will be a transition and it will be like be like Cagiva taking Husky from Sweden to Italy. The transition years '88, '89, '90 for Cagiva/Husky had a mix of rebadged Cagiva and Swedish bikes. In '91 the new bikes came and the 2 strokes were very Cagiva influenced, but definitely unique Huskys and the 4 strokes updated versions of the Swedish bikes. In '92 they revised the bikes again to really lighten them and use the best compnents and refine the "New Husky" bikes. At this point, they were no longer rebadged Cagivas or old Swedish Huskys. I still have my Trail Rider Magazines, with the articles on '91 and '92 press launches in Italy.

Stephan Pierer has already said that Husaberg models, may be a bridge in the Husqvarna Brand re-launch. Since Husaberg is now the "Pure Enduro" Brand and has dropped Dual Sport, Cross Country, Supermoto and MX models (Been a good while for them.) SP can't really meet his goals by just rebadging Husabergs in the long run. Husky was extremely advanced in 4 stroke technology when Cagiva bought them, so Swedish Husky 4 strokes survived. In this transition... KTM is not lacking, in anything Husky could offer, so I doubt that even the new 250/310 will survive. New unique Huskys will come, but they will be designed and built in Mattinghofen.

I love to watch and speculate, but I have no say in the end. Way more fun than a "What oil?" thread to me!

 

[oregonsage]

. KTM is not lacking, in anything Husky could offer, so I doubt that even the new 250/310 will survive. New unique Huskys will come, but they will be designed and built in

We were just discussing how much better the linkage suspension on both the 511 and 310 are compared to the KTMs my brother raced before.....

 

[Norman Foley]

We were just discussing how much better the linkage suspension on both the 511 and 310 are compared to the KTMs my brother raced before.....

KTM has their own linkage bikes now and I'd doubt they would keep a Husky model for that. I'd gladly be proven wrong, as I love the way Husky's handle over KTM's. I have my 2012 Husaberg TE250 with PDS working as well as it can and my '09 WR165 is still better. Main reason I'm on a Husaberg..... button! After 2 surgeries on my right knee, the button keeps me riding and Husky had no 2 stroke alternative. I can still start my '82 250WR and '93 350WXE no problem, as they have.... left kick!

 

[Chaz955i]

Way more fun than a "What oil?" thread to me!

How about a "What gas/oil ratio should I run?" thread? Agree though, Boisedave' post was an enjoyable read. Would be something else if he is right and Husky maintains its own identity but gains the finaincial backing that has not been so consistant over the years. That would be too cool

 

[pat ohara]

I would suggest that labor costs per unit are not as large a factor as some think, the variant is cost of production rather. Labor rates are not in itself exclusive but cost of production, when sales and production increases labor rates go down as a percentage of unit. If you make pizza at $8.00 per hr and sell 100 pizza's a day on a 8 hr.day your labor is paid for by virtue of the first 8 pizza's produced which of course changed the factor of labor verses productivity , this is not truck stop chatter it's info that's yrs. old. Only sale price to the buyer is a constant with no variable cost given unless on close out. Were it otherwise your KTM, Honda whatever would be subject to sale cost changes up or down. I'll just say this fellow who has purchased Husky has money to move and he is going to spend it somewhere so why not with our team, i'll unlikely buy another four stroke but if they come up with a cool smoker i'm in, if not oh well. I might add that in the pursuit of costumers, Union members check cash just as well [ small dig ] as anyones.

 

[Norman Foley]

"What I am not sure it means is that current Husky models will remain. I think a more likely scenerio as the phasing out of Italian Husky's and you will see them replaced with Austrian Husky's -- not just rebadged bikes but something unique. Also something premium. Maybe for the next year or two they ill be rebadged, but down the line I see "unique" Huskys -- wholly different from KTM. KTM can fill a more mainstream market and Husky will be niche manufacturer focused on some core areas. Maybe I am completely full of sh$% -- this isn't my area of expertise. But I just don't see KTM challenging the Japs with 3 different colors. They need to be more ambitious than that."

They will be built with premium components, but KTM will remain the Top Brand. They tried positioning Husaberg as a Brand above KTM and their egos finally had to change that around.

 

[dartyppyt]

Hey you guys are thinking like entrepreneurs!

Kinda nice, keep it up!

 

[7point62]

All of this logical train-of-thought malarkey is fine and dandy, but it assumes that your average businessman is driven by logic and not by ego, brown envelopes stuffed with cash and all the other enrepaneurial trappings.

I guess that rampant speculation is to be expected as well, what with the fact that the unambiguous information that's been disclosed by Pierer as of now could be written on the head of a pin and still leave room for all those dancing angels. So:

No more roadbikes. Probably. Thank the stars that we're saved from the Moab. I do think that the Nuda had potential though - give it some remedial cosmetic work and it would complement the brand rather than cheapen it. It's a sports bike. after all. But hey-ho.

Supermoto has been mentioned. That's a few hundred units then. Smokescreen.

Stealing market share from the Japanese has also been mentioned. That means motocross (the Japs don't seem too fussed about enduro at the moment). But isn't motocross the pinnacle of off-road bike racing in terms of publicity, glamour and cash (or what little cash there is in off road racing)? I can't see KTM letting the adopted red-headed stepchild steal the limelight, unless KTM is (eventually) going to be the roadbike brand. It has to be said that most people here in Europe would rather have a nuclear power station in their back yard than a new 450 MX bike in their garage right now. Cash cow? Horse burger, more like. But that's a problem that the whole industry needs to sort out by making off road sport more attractive, inclusive, exciting and affordable.

Whither Varese? There have been some compelling arguments for it's survival, but unless KTM need 20,000 high dollar unit capacity the future looks bleak for our Italian brothers and sisters. Perhaps Pierer is angling for some cash from the EU. Or perhaps he's going to turn the site into holiday chalets. Or perhaps (like when BMW bought Husky) he was ripped to the gills on acid and doesn't even remember writing the cheque. It all reeks of weird.

Oh, Husky, why are you such a drama queen?

 

[Sparrowhawk]

The great thing about speculation is that everybody is correct for now.

Two things SP has consistently brought up in conversations regarding the purchase of Husky: competing head on with Japanese manufacturers and the Volkswagen platform-sharing model. That leads me to a fairly simple conclusion. That is offering equal performance at a competitive price point. Playing around on Motorcycle-usa.com's buyers guide shows that for 250 and 450 MX and enduro bikes, KTMs run $400-$600 higher than the Japanese. Further, you don't often see KTM's more expensive MX bike beating the Japanese bikes in comparison shootouts.

Frequently refering to VW Group as an example, SP seems to clearly indicate his direction as they are leading the concept. Google "Volkswagen mqb". It looks to me that SP has an Audi A4 to compete against other Euro sedans but is looking for a Passat to compete against the Accord and Camry. KTM = A4 while Husky = Passat. Whether or not Husaberg = Panamera is yet to be determined.

KTM could easily source engines from India instead of Austria and change a few small items like handlebars, brakes, etc. and sell a bike under the Husky badge that performs like a KTM but sells at a Yamaha price. The same idea could be applied to small capacity learner street and off-road bikes. Take the Indian made singles and create competitive models for Kawasaki's Ninja 300, KLX, and KLR; Honda's Rebel, CBR250, CFR250L, and XRL.

All he has to do now is establish a dealer network competitive with the Japanese manufacturers. That wouldn't be such a bad thing for Husky fans.

 

[Boogie]

All he has to do now is establish a dealer network competitive with the Japanese.

My closest husky dealer is 10mins, the second 30mins and the third 1hr drive. I like that.

 

[hahmule]

KTM built it's brand on the motto "ready to race" from the beginning. It would be exceptionally risky to mess with that.

Whatever they do with the Husky and Husaberg brands, it would be extremely unlikely for the management to take significant risks with the crown jewel, KTM. Taken together the "H" siblings represent only a small fraction of the sales made by KTM. This reality is the basis for a lot of concern that Husky's are going to be re badged KTM's like the Bergs are, and essentially allowed to die on the vine.

While no one invests money to lose money, they do invest money to buy out competitors. I firmly believe that's what happened with Husaberg. Weather KTM sells a single berg or not is immaterial to them as long as those sales go from Husaberg to KTM.

The $64,000,000 question is; did Pierer buy out a competitor, or did he buy another brand with which to take market share from the Japanese? My fond hope is that he is pursuing the later. If he is, then he is going to need to differentiate the brands in some meaningful way.

 

[Kevin_TE250]

It has to be said that most people here in Europe would rather have a nuclear power station in their back yard than a new 450 MX bike in their garage right now.

LOL !!!

 

[dcg141]

A lot depends on what, if anything the Japanese have up their sleeves. A lot of KTM's success has come from the big 4 being asleep at the wheel. Suzuki and Kawasaki have for now given up off-road. There is rumbling that Yamaha has some new product in the pipeline. They have problems in ATV/side x side business also with Polaris and Can-Am. ATV's are effectively going to side x side's and Polaris is absolutely killing them in that business. Polaris also bought Indian and wants a bigger part of the Cruiser business. ATV's and Cruisers have been the big 4's bread and butter for a long time.

 

[Joe Chod]

KTM built it's brand on the motto "ready to race" from the beginning. .

Actually no...that was Husaberg and they took it along with the purchase

 

[silverpilen]

Actually no...that was Husaberg and they took it along with the purchase

True. Remember all the Enviro Who-Ha in the 90's about the 2-stroke being banned completely in Europe? It was around the time that KTM purchased Husaberg to get access to the Husaberg 4 stroke engine. In the 90's both Jacky Martens on the Husky's and then Joel Smets on the Husabergs were just smashing the Euro GP's. KTM had the old 80's LC4 4 stroke engine and it must have been a lot cheaper to just buy the Husaberg and get access to a new engine design and the 'ready to race' Joel Smets that came with it. Guess what, Smets & KTM won the world champs the following year. I just loved the Euro GP's in the 90's when Husky, Husaberg and KTM ruled the open class. Everything was cool until Yamaha spoiled the party with the YZF400.

 

[Captnemo]

You continue to make lots of good points but reality isn't going to support your speculations. None of your speaking points explains the large losses incurred every month in Italy producing Husqvarna Motorcycles. Production losses above and beyond the bleeding the rest of the company is experiencing. All the well thought out paper in the world doesn't rectify real world problems and excess costs.

The large losses you speak of, my friend - was indicated by the large "Sucking" noise coming from BMW. Kinda like what Daimler did to Chrysler. Kinda like what a Vampire does. From what I've seen (and heard and read) Husqvarna Italy was making money but not at the ROI the Germans expected. Remember this all happened at the worse time for the whole world economy. A lot of smaller companies have been "shucked" by their larger owner just to make things look better on paper for their board members. The small cottage industries are hurting too, but have a faithful following that is keeping them going (and growing) even if its a little. I wonder if Husqvarna has that kind of following - seems like it does from the guys and gals that post here. Maybe being big is not so great of deal. Seems like "Big Business" and "Big Government" just keep screwing things up for the rest of us. That's why I always look for the "Mom and Pop" places to deal with. But with that said, there are a few "Wise" companies out there that understand to leave their small divisions to operate as single business units and make their own plans based on their clientele. You will see this work with companies like Beta and GasGas, and others. Producing motorcycles is not "Rocket-Surgery" . Hell, You can build a very good "One-off" yourself.