88 Auto retro build

[speedyauto]

This is a project that I thought of years ago & thought that it would be a hoot to ride, It's taken a while & there where a lot of little niggling problems but it's at the testing stage so here's hoping it all goes well.
The basic's are it's an 88 430 AUTO engine in a 2007 WR 250 Husky frame with a few custom parts to make it run.
Those of you with a keen eye will notice a fair few frame & swing arm mods had to be done to allow the engine to sit properly acording to where the chain runs & where the exhaust port is located(exhaust port on the 88 is much higher than 07 250 wr & that the 88 engine is longer than the 250), once the engine was in place, working the Left side kick start out was the next problem & that had a few clearance issuse's.
One of the real pains was having to make an intake manifold as the 88 model airfilter is located on the right handside, so the intake had to be made to come in from the left for the 07 airbox & there was alot of cutting adjusting & readjusting to get the right angle for the carby to sit properly.(dont have too many beers while doing this as you will have to do it again sober)
Then the radiators needed to be relocated & all the plumbing sorted (hoping it don't run hot).
Then came the fun of trying to find some one who can build an expansion chamber & muffler to the proper specs & not just to bodge it together, Once I fround the right bloke I just had to send him the bike (Broadford) & wait & wait & wait some more as he is really good at what he does but it is done at his pace, I cant complain though as the job is exactly what I wanted & his price was on par with buying off the self Pro circuit stuff (which I still would have had to modify).
Now after a few time consuming niggly's that have reared their head I'm hoping to go testing 2moro.
I've put in some photo's of the original & what I'm calling my Nauto (newauto).
P.S> dont despair I haven't ruined my old bike I've bought a spare engine so I can keep my original in great condition & with the Nauto scare the pant's off anyone inquistive enough to try & ride it********************************************************************************

 

[dirtaddict23]

Wow, if you hang around long enough you're bound to see just about anything. Bravo

 

[Croc]

The old one looks better Speedy

 

[fran...k.]

Well the new one has nice strong pockets to hold the ends of the swingarm pivot bolt something none of the ones which belong in this section have. Does that have a 14 mm swingarm pivot bolt? I have yet to need to take the one on my modern 250 off. I did kind of similar but used a 1999 te 410 frame. How does it sound? Quieter and more like a modern bike? I added a picture of my 250 and have to wonder if the pipe isn't a splice job not a total fabrication. I can see that relative to the origional frame the footpeg to swingarm pivot location cuts down on the available rotation available to the kick starter lever but it is still better than the modern 250. You state you moved the radiators, did you use the larger modern radiators? Was there interference with anything but the pipe? The origional one seems very low use or new seat cover and a bunch of other stuff to make it look that way.

fran

 

[Michel Dufayard]

Even if I like the vintage look of older bikes, I appreciate the work and the idea to put a 88 auto motor in a modern frame !
Is that means that it is a long time that nobody has made a auto motor since the end of Swedish era and we need some ?

 

[speedyauto]

Well the new one has nice strong pockets to hold the ends of the swingarm pivot bolt something none of the ones which belong in this section have. Does that have a 14 mm swingarm pivot bolt? I have yet to need to take the one on my modern 250 off. I did kind of similar but used a 1999 te 410 frame. How does it sound? Quieter and more like a modern bike? I added a picture of my 250 and have to wonder if the pipe isn't a splice job not a total fabrication. I can see that relative to the origional frame the footpeg to swingarm pivot location cuts down on the available rotation available to the kick starter lever but it is still better than the modern 250. You state you moved the radiators, did you use the larger modern radiators? Was there interference with anything but the pipe? The origional one seems very low use or new seat cover and a bunch of other stuff to make it look that way.

fran

You really do have a keen eye, the swingarm bolt is the 14mm as per the 88 as the main shaft but, modified with 17mm bushes where the swingarm bearings are.
The sound is different & little quieter to the original but definitely old school big bore & yes your keen eye's scored more point's, I wanted some of the pressed half part look to the pipe so old mate modified the 250 pipe to the specs of the 430 pipe(part splice but completely to specifications).
Before I started this I should have sought you out, yes the rotation is only about 85% & the footpegs are also lower(not enough room to fit your foot under the peg) so some more work is needed as I found out yesterday while trying to start it with my bike boots on to go testing, not sure what I'm going to do but I'll figure something out.
I used the standard 250 radiators because they hold & flow more coolant, with regard to moving them I had to move them 25mm out so the bottom of the tanks would clear where the exhaust port part of the frame was lifted. There where lots of little bits & pieces that needed to be adjusted due to tigth spaces but nothing major.
As to wether it's better than a modern 250 how do you compare them? I did this to make something different, fun to ride & to have a modern looking auto that would be easier to maintain as the 88 has so many parts that are really difficult to get i.e. the plastics, decals, forks components & so much more, but with the engine I can still buy or replicate most of the parts & the 07 rolling chasis parts are cheap & really easy to get, plus it'll cofuse the life out of some people.
As for the original those are the tyres that it came fittedwith from the shop(he asked for metzlers), the bloke I got it from thinks about 6-8 tanks of fuel were used in total & the fact that I've known him for 25 years & the general condition of the bike I'd say it's true.
As for riding it, it was great fun once I got it running, it jumps, corners, stops, the handling is better than the 88 which is part of what I was looking for & the confused look on people's face's was priceless so as I find my way around my new toy I,m sure to be kept busy in the shed with it & beer.

Speedy

 

[speedyauto]

Even if I like the vintage look of older bikes, I appreciate the work and the idea to put a 88 auto motor in a modern frame !
Is that means that it is a long time that nobody has made a auto motor since the end of Swedish era and we need some ?

Maybe we should give the original makers a call as a big bore 4stroke fuel injected electric start AUTO would be lots of fun****************************************!!!

 

[speedyauto]

The old one looks better Speedy

If I can organise my other apptment for sunday I might show you some roost on saturday.

 

[pvduke]

that's nuts! killer DA-DING-DING-DING BROOP motor in a modern chassis!

get some blu/yeller or red/wht panels for it and go have a ball befuddling the unawshed masses on it!

i was wondering when someone would do something like this...and ya seen it here first on Cafe Husky!

p/s- how's it feel to finally have a bike that STOPS? lol. god them old brakes were notsomuchfun.

 

[TROFFER88]

Nice Job, I like it

 

[schimmelaw]

So coool! I like it too! Oh yea almost forgot the 430 looks good too

 

[speedyauto]

So after ridin at the MX track on tuesday & finding a few loose bolts (on the shock linkage was a wake up) I got a call from the boys to go to the bush. Well I went & had a another great test ride, I've still got a sore foot from where it kicked me back but I made a quick release for the footpeg & now I can get my whole foot on the start lever which makes a big difference.
Now the ride itself was better than expected, its cornering, stoping & jumping the way I'd hoped (just need more practice starting it).
I also found that I need to give some attention to the transmission as it started shifting to 2nd to early but thats just some maintenance.
The only future problem I've found so far is that it dosen't like to sit idling (with a sore foot I didn't want to turn it off) & get's a little hot, but I've got a few things to ponder.

1. The waterpump cover is plastic & warps under pressure (but I've found an alloy one for next time).
2. I've got a waterpump gasket is twice as thick as a standard one, (trying to use a reinforced rubber so it dosen't blow out) so I might not
be getting optimal flow from the Pump.
3. I've got a couple of joiners in the piping system so the flow might be slightly restricted.
&
4th. The radiators on it are fairly old, but I,ve got a new pair waiting to go.

At the moment The bike has been torn down so the frame can be powder coated as I'm sure that it dosen't need to be welded or cut anymore & I can start the pretty it up process.
While thats away being done I've got my spare engine to start building which will be interesting as I start to learn the in's & out's of a 3 speed auto box & try to source the sprag bearings & associated parts that I need, shuold be fun.
Cheers for now,
Speedy.

 

[Michel Dufayard]

What is your carb tuning please ? Thanks
Michel

 

[jfoulkrod]

Man, that is very cool. I'll bet it rides great.

 

[Palito]

I can really appreciate the amount of work that went into this project. Do you have any spare transmission parts especially the primary drive hub and shoes?

All of your over heating issues are due to the transmission overheating, was a real problem back in the day. After a long ride do not touch the transmission with your bare hands, you will get burned. That's is why the cases are aluminum and not magnesium. The way to keep it running cool was to minimize the primary clutch from slipping. This was accomplished by always applying full throttle to get the primary clutch to lock up with minimal slip. The faster more aggressive riders could get the tranny to last longer.

I successfully raced a 1986 430AE in 1986 &1987. The bike really was like cheating, it was that good. However after every race it got a complete transmission teardown, there are a lot of high wear on the primary clutch which contaminated the oil and caused other parts to wear out prematurely. The primary clutch would last only 10-12 hours.

I have considered doing what you have done many times over the years, however decided against it due to lack of replacement parts available at the time. The primary clutch is the weak link, lately I have been thinking of replacing the centrifugal clutch with a more traditional multi-disc set up. Up until recently I did not think it possible to do so, however the new BMW/Husqvarna TE449 has the clutch located directly on the crank output shaft. Sooo Husqvarna (after at least two changes in ownership since the Swedish built Automatic) has already done the engineering for this configuration. Now the TE449 is a manual clutch but maybe could be fitted with an auto kit like a Rekluse. Some one needs to step up and made it happen. One other issue would be how to start the engine as the kick-start drives the gears through the primary clutch, which has a set of pawls that open up to turn the motor over. Something to think about, preferable with beer in hand.

How has testing gone so far?

 

[Zim]

Good thead,best mod I did to my AE 420 was a Kawaski KX 125 disc brake fork,handy on the Wadigan downhills.Did yours come out of That shipping container Hans found 10 years ago.Just need to get some Historic plates for mine.Its 30 years old next year.

 

[fran...k.]

Palito's above post is quite true in my experience. Probably the following comments should be more in the general section not the restoration section.
Why when they made the little pawl things to start it they went from bronze or bronze looking shoes with a slight angle to the slots and a smooth drum to a spiral cut into the drum and smooth shoes which are magnetic whatever substance they are needs explaining. I know I have worn out at least three clutch kits and probably a few more than that on the 430 and only once put a hacksaw to the bronze ones. Like he says you try and spin the tire instead of slip the clutch as much as possible. Sure I ran the 430 more as it had a plate on it but not four times as far. It sure could use a transmission filter and pump like say an ag tractor.

Does anyond care to guess if the first gear drum is made on a metal spinning lathe or made with a press and punches or by some other industrial technique.

 

[Palito]

Does anyond care to guess if the first gear drum is made on a metal spinning lathe or made with a press and punches or by some other industrial technique.

I think the drum would be stamped from flat plate then machined in the grooves, machining the entire drum on a lathe wouldn't be strong enough. There are a lot off stresses and it is too thin and would crack easier.

What was the starting mechanism on the older 360 & 420 Autos, did they have bronze/brass grooved shoes on the primary clutch similar to 2nd & 3rd gears on the 430?

 

[fran...k.]

I didn't mean a machining lathe High pressure cylinders like used for oxygen etc are made on a spinning lathe. Yes the earlier first gear clutches are like the ones in the big drum for second and third on the 500/430. It uses an one way clutch like in the shaft the sprocket is on for starting.