86 single shock rear suspension

[Fritzcoinc]

Are the needle bearings ez to get for the swing arm and links? I am re building a 400 enduro rear suspension. No one ever greased the linkage.

 

[fran...k.]

I hope someone else has something quite different than the following to tell you.

There are hardened races the needle bearings ride on. Depends on how much you intend on using the bike whether you replace the hardened races. If you need new bearings and they were never greased the races won't be like new. Cypress sounds moist swampy at least to me, desert might be different than what I have dealt with. So each point of pivot has two bearings and two races. I totally gave up on my 1986 ae430 as it was going to cost over $200 for all the stuff I needed. The bearings weren't quite like the origionals either. The races were available at that time but it was quite a while ago. The swingarm might not be so bad there was and may be a kit for the whole thing. The linkage bearings as I recall with their seal built in and roller and cage configuration can't (I couldn't) be had from a bearing house. I migrated my stuff to 1988 frame linkage swingarm etc.

The A or AA level riders who had those bikes when new have fond memories and got lots of trophies however I think the linkage was much more progressive than what the industry has settled on by now.

 

[Hwy]

No harder than any other swingarm. They must be pressed in and out. Make sure to measure position before pressing.

The linkage bearing will come out easily, they are not press fitted in.
If they do not come out with your fingers, take the seals off and soak the link in mineral spirits for a hour. That will loosen the grime and grease.

 

[Husky37]

No harder than any other swingarm. They must be pressed in and out. Make sure to measure position before pressing.

The linkage bearing will come out easily, they are not press fitted in.
If they do not come out with your fingers, take the seals off and soak the link in mineral spirits for a hour. That will loosen the grime and grease.

Hi Hwy,

What happens if you didn't ake a note of the positions of the swinging arm bearings before you had them pushed out ?

Stu

 

[fran...k.]

I know you didn't ask me.

You stick the two races in and see how much longer that dimention is than the aluminum hole in the swingarm. The first bearing can be pushed back and forth until you start the second one at that point you can only push in with normal c clamp and socket type technology. Once you are happy with the placement of the first one do likewise with the others. Just from memory.

Fran

 

[Hwy]

Nothing, just more time to seat the bearing to the correct depth.
You will have to use the swing arm spacer as a gauge to inch the bearing into the swing arm.

The goal is to make use of the full bearing surface to spacer surface.

 

[Husky37]

Nothing, just more time to seat the bearing to the correct depth.
You will have to use the swing arm spacer as a gauge to inch the bearing into the swing arm.

The goal is to make use of the full bearing surface to spacer surface.

Thanks for that info. Just one more question... Which bearing would you start with first? Inner most or outer most? Or do you make sure that the bearings touch in the middle and are equally spaced in the housing? Sorry that's more than one question...

 

[Fritzcoinc]

Thanks for the info guys.

Another question: Is there a replacement for the single eye bushing in the linkage? If no, I plan to make a plastic one.

I will keep you posted as to my progress. Luckly for me I have access to machine tools and several of our customers owe me! As it stands right now I will preforming the following service on my 86 model 400 Enduro swing arm:
New shaft with zerk fittings at each end and lube groves for the bearings. Machined from 416 SS, heat treated, then finished ground to size.
New bearings in swingarm, races may be OK, inner bushings are fair and will go back in.
Linkage bearings should clean up and look pretty good.
I found the seals today here in Houston. They are a "quad seal". The cross section looks like four O rings connected.
The swing arm is currently at the machine shop to have one of the chain adjuster bolts drilled out and possibly thread inserts put in.

I know some are thinking "why bother, just get a Honda" but the bike is low hours and this is a restore to ride project. The long range plan is to make street legal.

 

[Fritzcoinc]

Cypress sounds moist swampy at least to me, desert might be different than what I have dealt with.

Cypress is NW of Houston. Although pretty humid, it is very dry. What part of WV? My family is from Wheeling!

 

[fran...k.]

Cypress is NW of Houston. Although pretty humid, it is very dry. What part of WV? My family is from Wheeling!

Well I am running away from New England I don't come from Wv. However With a mailing address in Friendly and the county of Pleasants I couldn't resist.

As for the linkage stuff, I assume you are talking about the hemi joint thing which attaches to the frame. For 85-86 that is the only thing I can think of. Strange I have never seen need to tamper with that and the rest of the linkage bearings are trashed in all the bikes I have disassembled. When new you might have been able to take the seals off and grease but now you might not be able to. If that is what it is I have surplus ones of those.

If you haven't I recommend you check out say a 1999 four stoke husky in that area. That frame lived on and incidentally the gear ratios. I hope you put button head Allen bolts in the ends of your swingarm bolt and just screw in the grease fittings to grease. Just reading your post makes my ankles hurt. The later versions the fittings were recessed and had a plastic plug over them. You might consider inserting a tube inside the swingarm going from somewhere convenient to the space between the bearings. I did this on an 83 swingarm chain side that was beyond it's service limit. You probably could just tap the fitting into the swingarm aluminum on the non chain side. 1998 two strokes had fittings on the swingarm the four strokes in 99 had like you envision. I know that from owning those models.

I also have made my own swingarm pivot bolt. Well I had a machinist make me four a little bigger so they just fit through the inner races (spacers perhaps you and others are calling them) The ends to be threaded ended up a few thousands less. Frame was reamed if necessary but likely will be a snug fit without reaming or worse. That die was a special order and not inexpensive.

Grammar experts Is allen as in allen bolt supposed to be Allen bolt?

 

[Fritzcoinc]

Thanks for the info!
Yes, I am talking about the hemi ( helm ) joint where the linkage attaches to the frame. I see from the exploded view how it comes apart. It is also the same ball joint as the shock. The rubber seems to be bad and so far I have not been able to get it apart. If you have one, I have intrest. I will pm you. I have a 2000 TE610e and it has zerk fitting at this point but none at the swing arm pivots. That will be a later project. Good advice on the swing arm bolt. We will see how it goes.

Could you expound on this from your first post: " I think the linkage was much more progressive than what the industry has settled on by now. "

 

[fran...k.]

Thanks for the info!
Could you expound on this from your first post: " I think the linkage was much more progressive than what the industry has settled on by now. "

Let's say wheel travel 12" shock travel 4".

Begining of mono shock first 2" wheel movement shock travel 1/2 inch, last 2" of wheel movement shock travel 1 inch.

Not progressive just linking shock to wheel, first 2" wheel movement shock travel 3/4 inch, last 2" of wheel movement shock travel 3/4 inch.

 

[fran...k.]

I located this hemi joint I got apart. Couldn't find the pieces with the hemi joint in it like I had in mind when I said I had surplus ones. Found the rest of two linkages though. It had two seals which crumbled to what you see in the picture. They are sort of like 1/16" gasket material washers. Almost like you find in a garden hose. This one is pretty Sloppy. It appears you could demolish the outer ring and cut the ball down the middle to salvage the other pieces. I got it apart by grabbing the goldish pieces with vice grips and twisting. The far one has a good amount of evidence of a battle. It is probably a generic thing but I never had much luck getting bearing houses to look up hemi joints.

 

[Fritzcoinc]

Wow, thanks!!
The parts manual shows that the PN for that joint is the same as the joint in the bottom end of shock. Olins replaced that joint when they rebuuilt my shock so it's out there somewhere!
I was able to find the expansion chamber to silencer O ring, so this should be a snap.
Thanks again and I may need to take you up on your offer for your joint. Thanks!

 

[Fritzcoinc]

Swing Arm material type

Anybody know what grade of aluminum the 85-87 swing arms are made from?

I have some welding to do, cracks to repair and brake backing plate reaction lugs need to be welded to an 85 swing arm for use on an 86.

Also I have heard there is a weld shop in PA. taht repairs these swing arms. Anybody have contact info?
I have a super welder here in Hockly Texas but would like as much info as possible.

The plan is to gouge out the cracks that are only around the left axle mount and weld on brake backing plate reaction lugs, then re-shot peen, so this pretty prestine 85 arm can go on my 86 model.

Thanks

 

[fran...k.]

First off swingarm assemblies are most likely heat treated after welding so you ought not to expect like new strength. Disclaimer Disclaimer.

I have welded on them with 4043 aluminum rod. That and 5356 are the two mainstays in rod. I am talking tig or gtaw but it is true for mig or gmaw as well. The 4043 isn't as strong but it absorbs stresses better and will be less likely to crack. I would guess it is made of 6000 series aluminum. The new aluminum frames on some if not all of the new bikes is 7000 series and that has even more issues to lead to warnings not to weld on it.

As for the backing plate for the brakes, I would recommend finding one which attaches to the swingarm you have as I don't particularly like the ones which you want to make stops for. I have built up the aluminum for those stops and have got some magnesium backing plates folks have tried to build up.

As noted above in prior posts I don't particularly like that swingarm set up.
Some of the swingarms for that linkage have two cross pieces made out of aluminum, perhaps wr and ae. I hope you have one of them not the one with only one cross piece. On my 430 auto ae with the two cross piece swingarm is the only one not to have frame damage at the swingarm pivot holes of the four or so I have disassembled. That may be more a factor of the type of forces on the chain and the rider and terrain than swingarm design but note my experience.

 

[Fritzcoinc]

Thanks for the info. Your'e saying exactly what my welder is saying as to welding materilas. Although it apperas the welds are not heat treated as they are softer than the compoents. This would be pretty normal for large production, heat treated parts welded together. I am planning a stress relieve heat treatment before shot peen. And, thanks for the " disclaimer". Rest assured I dont intend to ride the bike hard but trail riding is in the picture. Both my arms have the extra cross brace. The two comming out of service do not and both of those need new pivot bearing bosses someday.

I did not see your post before going to the trouble to make the brake stops so, what are the issues with this rear brake set up?