TE/TC 4CS Issues

[fletchman45]

I think it is more funny that a high $$¢$ bike comes with a crappy seat cover (husky power parts low seat way better in all aspects) and that my 250 vibrates .....more then it should....

 

[octagon pilot]

I'm kinda with fletchman here...

My stock 4CS forks (501s) are not what I would call horrible by any means. There are some issues, more noticeable at race speed, but for trail riding I think they're pretty good. Not perfect, but acceptable.

As for the stock stuff, while working out my setup, I have found that the HS comp setting (on the shock) seems to have a large affect on how much the forks drop into the stroke. And that thing is way more sensitive than the comp adjuster on the fork. If I add a quarter turn HS (harder) on the shock, the forks feel noticeably worse on the first half of the stroke. It almost starts to feel like the shock is overpowering the forks as things compress if the HS is even a little bit too hard. (I am sprung correctly and 108 rear sag.)

So if you're riding stock suspension, like me, and not immediately planning on sending it out, my best tip to help balance the fr/rr is that HS on the shock. It has a huge affect on the fork and overall chassis balance, in my experience...

Hope this helps somebody out there.

Still drooling over that MX tech fork setup though....

 

[Motosportz]

The fork drama is overrated there are plenty of guys racing an winning on stock forks......4cs......mine were 150$ or so and while not super soft seem to be a fair balance for woods or whoops......I don't know. But do know c riders who get revalves....

you got yours revavled and resprung and added a damper before even riding it.

 

[Motosportz]

Kelly, If that question was for me and you quoted fletchman?

I quoted Fletch, why do you keep thinking I am addressing you? Wierd.

 

[boisedave]

I've read this thread intently -- I have a 2014 250XC with the 4CS. I knew going in the forks were supposed to be pretty bad so I figured I would need some work. I got a great deal on the bike so I figured if its just the forks I might as well go ahead. I also had a bit of knowledge going in. I rode a 350XCF with the same forks that were revalved by my local shop. Although I only rode that bike for a few miles, the forks felt good -- so it seemed to me the worst I would be in was for springs and a revalve. So I pulled the trigger.

First ride out -- totally confirmed it. Forks were way off. Valving was super harsh in the mid. Not good. It also felt undersprung to me. So I ordered up the springs for my weight [$90] and yanked the forks off and took them to my local guy and told him to repeat the work he did on the 350 I rode. Went to get the forks and he told me that he did the revalve and installed the springs. Of particualr note he said the internals were not installed right -- a seal had already blown inside and the forks didn't seem to be put together well. So he cleaned everything up replaced the seal [no charge] and reassembled everything properly [$160 including oil] and I went and rode it.

Result -- MUCH better. The still aren't as supple as my open chambers in the 1st and 2nd gear rocks and stuff, but the aren't bad. Where the fork is MUCH better is everywhere else -- roots at speed, rocks, whoops whatever. The work far better and seem great to me. I am a fairly decent rider [high B/low A] so consider that -- I am also not super picky -- I just know that they work good for me. Even took them to Moab and they were great. Did 5MOH no problem. I even confirmed it by riding a buddies 300XC with the stock 4CS and they were every bit as awful as I remember. He rode mine and the next day took them to the shop.

Conclusions -- I looked into Kreft before the revalve and probably would go there if my local guy didn't do a great job. I think those guys are really knowledgeable and know their stuff [way more than me]. I also think Stillwell and the others with their fixes probably work great too. I have no reason to doubt their analysis of the issues associated with the 4CS. In the end though, $1000 or even $750 is CRAZY to me. I don't doubt that for that kind of coin you can get some amazing forks -- but shouldn't you? I guess my point is that I just don't think you really need to go that far -- maybe there is a happy medium. I also think that the production issues my guy found are pretty common and contribute in large part to the poor performance. Simply getting the forks solid as they were manufactured seemed to help.

 

[Motosportz]

Awesome post.

 

[Motosportz]

I don't know why anyone who doesn't actually own one of these 2014 or 2015 Husky's or even the 2013 Husaberg bikes with the 4CS forks.

Same reason people talk about bikes they do not own, or gear, or tools, or tires, or oil, or... To learn and understand so as to make informed buying decisions and understand the ramifications. In fact I believe you were asking about them before you got your bike no?

I have personally sampled these bikes:

FE350
- Thanks Russ

Te125
TE250
- thanks Tim

TC250
- Thanks Bills

FE250
- Thanks Mike

And a handful or more KTMs with them. Honestly I did not have much issue with any of them. Some were pretty stiff and racer setups like the TC but that's what the bike is for. The FE's seemed plusher.

 

[fletchman45]

you got yours revavled and resprung and added a damper before even riding it.

Keep in mind a lot of people do this regardless of brand of bike. Stock springs are in my bike as I was told were fine for my 167 pounds. Revalve done more so for convienance because they set my bike up for me so it can feel like Christmas when I drive 11 hours one way to pick it up considering they will ship it for less then my gas costs..... I had the dampner from my red bike and do not like solid mount bars on any bike so bought a rubber submount. And in honesty if jay tells me that chassis really needs a dampner then by god it does..... When spending that much money it seems easier to just get it done and dude with all do respect if u buy a motocross model of any brand and plan on riding off road then you know a revalve is mandatory....there are double a riders in ill with stock forks winning.......

 

[fletchman45]

you got yours revavled and resprung and added a damper before even riding it.

Oh yea and you only turn 50 once........bling bling bling. I like it and work my a-- off and deserve it!!!

 

[Norman Foley]

I've posted this before.... The TE125 has been doing pretty well. I just rode a race and in all conditions, the forks have been working well. We rode.... mud, sand, hard pack, loam, roots, ledges and there wasn't anything I was nervous about. I will say there were no true rock gardens, but there were rocky areas. I'm not Kelly or Rob, but I'm riding as fast as I ever have. I had this bike pinned across corn stubble field grass track sections and the bike feels as stable as a 125 can and no steering dampener. There's something about the spring rate and valving combination on the TE125 4CS, that makes it work better than any other Husky.

That said.... The suspension is with my friend, to be lowered and valved. He's a machinist in a high end tool and die shop and races flat track and hare scrambles. He was a long time race mechanic and has always done suspension on the side. He only does suspension, for about a dozen guys he likes and rides with.

He's researched what all the top suspension tuners are doing and has a plan that keeps the full intended function of the forks. He called me tonight, to tell me that the factory assembly of my forks was meticulous. None of the ports clogged with loctite or loose and broken parts, that have been talked about. Maybe that's why they worked well? He has now done the 4CS forks for a few local Expert MX riders and AA woods riders. I personally know these guys and they are stoked on how they work. He believes once the bugs are worked out, that they are superior to WP CC forks and as easy to service as WP OC forks.

I'll have my bike back together this weekend and will be racing Sunday. I'll have a report next week.

 

[Hoov165x]

"That looks like a damned nice "Motorsportz damper" setup on the 250 on the other post thread. I would have got one in blue just like it for my FE 501 but couldn't get ahold of you and your message box on the phone was full a few weeks back. I sent an email to you and a post on here also. Last week again too when I tried calling you. Message box was full. Thanks for the PM though."
You should have waited for one. I have had Scotts, RTT, GPR, and Motosportz. The Motosportz damper is by far the best one, at least for the woods. Funny how a guy that used to fight me to light the Bunsen Burner in 7th grade science can build one better than a Scott's.....LOL!! 36 years later I am running his dampers on my bikes.......

 

[Hoov165x]

Wait for what? For someone who doesn't even answer the damn phone. Just because it looks nice don't prove nothing, He even said you had it set up wrong.

Why did you test or use all the other brands in the past. So you could take them all apart and copy there technology in science class while he was lighting your Bunsen burner.

Someone who doesn't answer the phone. That's no way to run a business. You have to contact him on here? WTF? I don't/won't do business with a business like that.......................

My BRP/Scotts is with rubber mounted bar mounts and comes with a selection of those isolater bushings. Not slide or slot mounted, where it can obviously be set up wrong. Huh Dude! Thanks for the tip.

You know Tim, if I was the mod on here I would ban you. Do you have an anger issue? You rant and rave about senseless BS, and are continually sending threads off-track with your mindless rants. You act as if every comment is a personal attack on you, when they typically are not. I have a great idea, why don't you start your own thread, where you can post on your own thread, you can ask questions of yourself and answer yourself, and not annoy everyone with your lack of meaningful contribution. There, I said it- what everyone else has been wanting to say.

 

[Aaron platt]

The difference is the Yamaha forks actually work very well if you happen to weigh the right amount for the springs that come with the bike. My son's 2011 yz450 is a perfect example of this, I set the SAG, adjusted the clickers, put bark busters and a skid plate on it and it's race ready. The 4cs don't work for anybody of any weight... some say they work for a while and then get harsh but so far even for the average rider it's pretty much inevitable that you're going to need a 4cs re-valve and that's on a bike with a $1,000-$2,000 higher price tag to begin with. I was at the KTM/Husky dealer last weekend and I was really liking some of their models (ktm 150 with white plastics of course, Husky 501, Husky fc450). I'm going to have to wait a while and see if these get sorted before I even consider a 4cs bike with that already high price. Frankly the KTM engineers should feel like they are standing in the town square with no pants. In every single review of every 4cs equipped model the suspension gets poor ratings especially the forks, this is also the case in every single magazine bike build and that's saying a lot since most magazine writers candy coat the bad news for their advertisers.

What KTM or Husky models are 1-2 thousand more than their comparable Japanese counterparts? A new FC450 is $9,149 vs. the YZ450f at $8,590. That's a difference of only $589. Somehow this seems like a bargain when you factor in the electric start, hydraulic clutch, five star brakes, wheel spacers that don't fall out or an air filter that doesnt require seat removal to change (I know the 4t Yamahas don't either). If you compare the TC 125 and 250 to the YZ 125 and 250 the price is within less than $200. I know the FE501 is nearly 10k, but there is no comparable models coming out of Japan.

I don't see what the big deal is on the 4cs fork. It's just not that big of a deal to spend a little more having these forks reworked when it's more than likely that you'd be doing the same thing on any other bike. No manufacturer can make suspension that works for everyone. It's too subjective ant there are just too many variables.

The big 4 out of Japan are the ones with their panties down (especially Suzuki and Kawasaki).

 

[bowser]

I'm currently installing yet another $$CS setup in my forks, they have had more revalves than I would have liked but suspension is something that interests me and they still aren't how I would like them.
I have tried varying shim settings with std parts, flipped checks so both adjusters on top are comp, rebound bleed shim setup, Kreft variant with kreft mid valve and race tech base adjuster and a slight change to the kreft shim settings to suit. Honestly I don't see why all the guys rave about his setup on other forums, to me I had them working better for cheaper with the stock parts. I was expecting more from them for the price (parts only, i do my own work)

I haven't tried removing the blue oring and converting them to open chambers, this to me is a step backwards.

The setup i'm trying this weekend is being supported by Terry Hay at Shock Treatment in Australia, Terry has posted the basic details on KTM talk which is using stock mid valve with a bleed hole, race tech base adjusters and race tech G2r gold valves, check valves removed. I'm excited by this setup, I have previously used Terry before with success and he is very positive this will the best I have tried yet....here's hoping.

 

[lankydoug]

What KTM or Husky models are 1-2 thousand more than their comparable Japanese counterparts? A new FC450 is $9,149 vs. the YZ450f at $8,590. That's a difference of only $589. Somehow this seems like a bargain when you factor in the electric start, hydraulic clutch, five star brakes, wheel spacers that don't fall out or an air filter that doesnt require seat removal to change (I know the 4t Yamahas don't either). If you compare the TC 125 and 250 to the YZ 125 and 250 the price is within less than $200. I know the FE501 is nearly 10k, but there is no comparable models coming out of Japan.

I don't see what the big deal is on the 4cs fork. It's just not that big of a deal to spend a little more having these forks reworked when it's more than likely that you'd be doing the same thing on any other bike. No manufacturer can make suspension that works for everyone. It's too subjective ant there are just too many variables.

The big 4 out of Japan are the ones with their panties down (especially Suzuki and Kawasaki).

The 1k-2k is out the door not MSRP, ktm dealers that I've been to won't budge much. I bought my son's new 2011 yz450 for $5,000 cash money, I bought my new 09 WR250 Husky for $4,900 cash money. At the time I bought those bikes they were actually more then 2k cheaper then their ktm competition. I do expect to spend about $450 doing springs and re-valve which is a lot less then what many on this thread are paying.

 

[Motosportz]

Funny how a guy that used to fight me to light the Bunsen Burner in 7th grade science can build one better than a Scott's.....LOL!! 36 years later I am running his dampers on my bikes.......

ha ha ha good stuff Mike. And I don't think you ever let me light it so I put gear oil in your damper.

 

[Motosportz]

I got "Zero Response" from him.

hmmmm... wonder why?

 

[Motosportz]

He even said you had it set up wrong.

Nope, was just double checking and giving install notes as I just sent him the damper, no instructions knowing he has installed several before.

 

[Motosportz]

So anyway, about those 4cs forks...

 

[Aaron platt]

Those are two bikes that the dealers had to try and give away. I was seeing 2011 Yamahas still sitting on dealer floors in late 2013 and early 2014 with giveaway prices. The WR 250 and 300's were the same way. Even though they were a great bike, they're over 10 years old in design. Now parts are drying up and when its time to sell that thing your gonna literally almost have to give it away. If I walk into the Yamaha shop today, they will not come off of a 15 450 $1500.

The modern ktm has become the gold standard that all others are compared to (especially in the off road market). There are reasons that the dealers won't come off of retail or even add BS setup charges, and it's because there are no bikes left on the showroom floor that are two years old. The KTM's have no problem selling themselves, even with a questionable fork. The added features, performance and high quality parts you get with a KTM far outweigh the cost savings for a lesser make.

I had Zipty do my 300 forks and shock for less than 600 and factory connection will do your forks for about 500. It doesn't take $1500 to make these forks work if you don't want to. Again, this is all subjective and many will spend well over $1000 on whatever color bike they ride.