TE/TC 4CS Issues

[Motosportz]

I rode a brand spanking new FE250 yesterday with the 4CS forks. I did not mind them at all. The new owner of the bike struggled with it at the beginning of the day but after some time on it and clicking the clickers he got it close. I liked it right away. Good bike. It does work your arms pretty hard for some reason. I am still not wild over the twitchy KTM type handling but overall liked the bike quite a bit. They are kinda harsh in the embedded rock stuff but acceptable to me.

Me trying the FE250 out...

 

[high tide]

I rode a brand spanking new FE250 yesterday with the 4CS forks. I did not mind them at all. The new owner of the bike struggled with it at the beginning of the day but after some time on it and clicking the clickers he got it close. I liked it right away. Good bike. It does work your arms pretty hard for some reason. I am still not wild over the twitchy KTM type handling but overall liked the bike quite a bit. They are kinda harsh in the embedded rock stuff but acceptable to me.

Me trying the FE250 out...

A lot of the "twitchiness" for these new Huskies, and the KTM SX/XC bikes can be attributed to the 22mm triple clamps. 20mm clamps help to settle things down, without giving too heavy of a feel. If you haven't ridden a modern KTM or Husky with the 20mm clamps, including the 2012 and up PDS bikes with the right springs, then you are missing out. My 350 W model is the most stable bike I've ridden, yet turns great in the tight woods.
*Those evil 4CS forks might not help either*

 

[fletchman45]

I just have a standard revalve front and rear and they feel fine. Chassis does not seem that twitchy to me... And a red husky 250\300 is considered super stable...they have big rebates on the 15 fc 250's right now....I can't say where but was quoted 6500 out the door for a 15 fc 250.....wife said no.....

 

[Motosportz]

Chassis does not seem that twitchy to me...

Well your bike is also revavled and has a steering stabilizer

 

[fletchman45]

Well your bike is also revavled and has a steering stabilizer

Very true. I have not rode a stock bike. I also have a rubber submount and when putting a larger rear sprocket add a longer chain as well to keep the wheelbase as long as I can. I will be riding Mn singletrack soon and have some more opinions.... Did a little last weekend need some more time but did feel fairly certain my Tm may very well have had a stronger engine thruout the entire rpm range meaning like low end mid range top end and seat of the pants.....need more testing to be sure. Soon.....custom lowered brake pedal seems to help and since the front brakes are not Tm strong or red husky good I am trying to use them more....

 

[Hoov165x]

A lot of the "twitchiness" for these new Huskies, and the KTM SX/XC bikes can be attributed to the 22mm triple clamps. 20mm clamps help to settle things down, without giving too heavy of a feel. If you haven't ridden a modern KTM or Husky with the 20mm clamps, including the 2012 and up PDS bikes with the right springs, then you are missing out. My 350 W model is the most stable bike I've ridden, yet turns great in the tight woods.
*Those evil 4CS forks might not help either*

The FE250 comes stock with 20mm clamps....

 

[Hoov165x]

OK on the 4CS issue.. Is anyone of the suspension gurus out there doing the needed improvement to the 4CS forks and "NOT" converting them to an old bottom compression adjuster to get them to work right. I ride a lot of rocks and would like to send them out right about now but am having some reservations about getting the forks converted to not having the adjuster knobs right there where I can easily get to them. I kind of like that idea.

I believe having to have them re-valved to work along with having them changed back to the old conventional adjusters. Just sort of defeats the point of having this convenient option in the first place. I don't really care what it costs if this can be done, if they work right and I still have the top adjusters for both compression and rebound.

I know that's asking a lot at this point for these 4CS forks.

Anyone out there have there 4CS forks revalved, improved. redone to work good and still have this setup yet? Where the Compression side seems to actually do some thing to stop the fork from blowing through the first 7" to 8" inches of travel so easily??

I have a rubber BRP Submount and Scotts damper as well, it will be going on when the legs come off for there flight out to get fixed.

Stillwell Performance keeps the adjusters up top.

 

[Hoov165x]

I rode a brand spanking new FE250 yesterday with the 4CS forks. I did not mind them at all. The new owner of the bike struggled with it at the beginning of the day but after some time on it and clicking the clickers he got it close. I liked it right away. Good bike. It does work your arms pretty hard for some reason. I am still not wild over the twitchy KTM type handling but overall liked the bike quite a bit. They are kinda harsh in the embedded rock stuff but acceptable to me.

Me trying the FE250 out...

I wouldn't describe the FE250 as twitchy. Quick yes, but not twitchy in comparison with previous KTM models that I've owned. Certainly not rock steady like some of the Italian Huskies though. I think getting the suspension right will make this a great scoot.

 

[Chums]

Phone calls will start being made tomorrow between Stillwell and Kreft. Those calls will be made while on the job. Between cement trucks bringing me 120 yards of concrete to fill my Secondary Border fence trench.

Its good to have a crew to do most all of the hard work.

The BRP rubber submount and damper is going on. So the forks are either going North to Scottsdale or east to Texas. It probably depends on who is backed up the longest.

Having clickers on the bottom is a small price I paid to have good suspension! I honestly adjusted rebound a couple clicks either way and liked how they originally came so set them back to that. I find myself not needing to mess with the clickers nearly as much now because they just work better over a wider range of terrain. I talked to both places and felt better about Kreft but that's just me lol. And the Huck valve is sweet!

 

[diggs345]

I ended up 3 clicks more out on the rebound and one on compression to get a great setting , no huck valves in mine yet though .
They are a ton better now than stock

 

[CrazyTed]

What an interesting topic to read. I've been racing KTM's since my first, a '98 KTM 250EXC. I've had 03 450 EXC, 05 450, and an 06 450XC. I then went to a Berg FX450 and am now on a 15 FE350. I'm 244 pounds without gear and am a A- level rider. In other words I'm ranked A offroad but finish mid to back of the pack. I met Bart Hayes years ago through his PG Graphics company before he opened Genuine Dirt Race (now called PG Powersports) and before PG Suspension (Previously called WP USA). I have had PG Suspension do my work since before they were WP USA or an official WP factory service center. I can assure you he didn't buy that right. Every time I've been to his shop, there have been factory KTM supported racers there getting their suspension done and then testing it on the track next to the shop. I was just there last week to pickup the FE350 and there was a brand new 2016 KTM 350 there for a factory rider to pick-up and take to the GNCC in IN. I got to watch the testing and setup work and drool all over that bike. Man does that bike look way, way different with the very curved frame backbone. I got to watch another GNCC pro rider pickup 5 seconds a lap after installing new suspension on his bike and getting the suspension clickers right. It's definitely a cool process to watch happen.

As for the 4CS, for me they felt harsh to start with. Now, with the PG Suspension work done, they feel pretty good. I'm curious to see what happens as they break in more and more. The track outside the shop starts as a MX track and then turns into the woods with ruts and roots and plenty of red clay. I was very happy hitting the tree roots and not having the front wheel follow them at all. Plenty of confidence. The most different feeling I had on the bike is this bike and the suspension setup, the bike just seems to love to jump and land nicely. I'm not a confident jumper and this bike inspires confidence. My biggest thing I'll have to work on is after racing the FX450 for five years, the FE 350 feels 100 pounds lighter and turns in sooo much faster that I keep setting up my turns too early. I have my first chance to race test it this weekend in Martinsville, VA. Really looking forward to the event.

 

[Cameron Lemon]

I looked on Stillwells site but cannot accurately determine if he replaces the base valves or if he still maintains comp and reb on top. Anybody know for sure? I like the 4CS design and both adjusters up top personally.

 

[mrkartoom]

A previous poster said Stillwell keeps the adjusters up top, so I assume that means as is with reb and comp.

Personally I like the idea of not drastically modifying the forks, especially after hearing about previous mods being "undone" by other tuners. There are some shops getting good results without all the re-engineering or conversions. Stillwell, PG and Factory Connection seems to have some happy campers out there. I'm leaning FC just because the NH location is in my neck of the woods.

 

[lankydoug]

If it costs $1,000 to fix them, what would it cost to make them work from the factory?

Hey look everyone there's a gigantic elephant in the the room and he's crapping out a set of 4cs forks!!!

 

[letitsnow]

Don't most people pay $700+ to get their forks re-valved/resprung on whatever brand bike they buy? I don't see where this 4cs is a big deal. My buddies ride Yamahas, and LOVE to talk about their SSS forks. The first thing they do when buying a new bike is have the forks re done... Jus sayen.

 

[bikesparky]

Don't most people pay $700+ to get their forks re-valved/resprung on whatever brand bike they buy? I don't see where this 4cs is a big deal. My buddies ride Yamahas, and LOVE to talk about their SSS forks. The first thing they do when buying a new bike is have the forks re done... Jus sayen.

Totally agree! Difference is that the Austrian Husky is about a $1000 more expensive here in Australia than anything else, even his orange sister. One of the marketing statements to justify the prices was that "they have high quality 4CS forks" amongst other things. One would expect not to having to fork out another $700+ to get them fixed!

 

[Hoov165x]

I

Don't most people pay $700+ to get their forks re-valved/resprung on whatever brand bike they buy? I don't see where this 4cs is a big deal. My buddies ride Yamahas, and LOVE to talk about their SSS forks. The first thing they do when buying a new bike is have the forks re done... Jus sayen.

I have never paid that much for a fork revalve. $400 tops with springs is about it. I have spent over $1k on forks, but that was the full meal deal with mods unnecessary for most.

 

[lankydoug]

Don't most people pay $700+ to get their forks re-valved/resprung on whatever brand bike they buy? I don't see where this 4cs is a big deal. My buddies ride Yamahas, and LOVE to talk about their SSS forks. The first thing they do when buying a new bike is have the forks re done... Jus sayen.

The difference is the Yamaha forks actually work very well if you happen to weigh the right amount for the springs that come with the bike. My son's 2011 yz450 is a perfect example of this, I set the SAG, adjusted the clickers, put bark busters and a skid plate on it and it's race ready. The 4cs don't work for anybody of any weight... some say they work for a while and then get harsh but so far even for the average rider it's pretty much inevitable that you're going to need a 4cs re-valve and that's on a bike with a $1,000-$2,000 higher price tag to begin with. I was at the KTM/Husky dealer last weekend and I was really liking some of their models (ktm 150 with white plastics of course, Husky 501, Husky fc450). I'm going to have to wait a while and see if these get sorted before I even consider a 4cs bike with that already high price. Frankly the KTM engineers should feel like they are standing in the town square with no pants. In every single review of every 4cs equipped model the suspension gets poor ratings especially the forks, this is also the case in every single magazine bike build and that's saying a lot since most magazine writers candy coat the bad news for their advertisers.

 

[letitsnow]

Ok. I guess that I have learned something.

 

[fletchman45]

The fork drama is overrated there are plenty of guys racing an winning on stock forks......4cs......mine were 150$ or so and while not super soft seem to be a fair balance for woods or whoops......I don't know. But do know c riders who get revalves....