TE/TC 4CS Issues

[racemx904]

I think sherco comes with OC forks.... No one fork setting or type will work for everyone....I would gladly trade OC forks for any CC or 4cs fork

 

[Dangermouse449]

Why does KTM stick with and push such a POS fork? At least spec the old open chambers for off road (less expensive, works better, EZ to tune). Fancy new tech must sell even if it is not an improvement.

If you buy the white KTMs they come with open chambets

 

[Tinken]

Why does KTM stick with and push such a POS fork? At least spec the old open chambers for off road (less expensive, works better, EZ to tune). Fancy new tech must sell even if it is not an improvement.

They aren't, instead they are choosing to move on to an even bigger pos fork, the air fork.

 

[Norman Foley]

Might be stock who knows. He races all over the world so I'm sure he is on way more than one bike.

Jarvis for many races, especially outside Europe, rides a bike provided by the local distributor and he doesn't always have his team mechanic with him. Just ask Chilly... He helped Graham set up his Husaberg and Husky for King of Motos, the last two years. No Factory bike waiting at HQ, just a crate dropped of at Chilly's garage! I saw a post somewhere, that his mechanic installed the Factory race suspension, for an extreme event. He had him put it back to stock. The guy is quite genuine and no BS. A friend rode his school in WV and asked him about suspension mods and he said he liked them stock. He did tell him, that he's not too concerned about the front end of the bike, more ride the rear end style.....

 

[Tinken]

Jarvis rides for Husqvarna and like any other factory rider, they cannot comment on their forks or it's internals other than saying "stock". The last rider who did came extremely close to termination. And I have seen several of the mechanics talk about how they liked the "stock" condition of the forks and I know they don't run them that way. Whether or not Jarvis runs "stock" front forks, no idea, but I wouldn't.

 

[racemx904]

Heck when I was a pro and rode on borrowed bikes even overseas I brought my forks and shock.... and like Tinken said it was "stock" wink wink.....

 

[reveille]

don't listen to internet chatter and bias....you gotta use what works for you. maybe the 4cs out of the box is your magic set up...for me it was harsh and felt like a supercross bike in the technical stuff, Im happy now with the full redo. for many the stock set up may be fine. PS Im enrolled in the Graham school this month, and you guys know me by now. I will straight up ask him about his suspension and another thing his jet set/PV/pipe set up his bike is so clean from straight off idle it kills me!!

Robert, I know we have beat this to death but you say your TE300 4CS were harsh like MX bike? I think I have the complete opposite experience with my 501. Mine almost seems too plush and disconnected. All I did was swapped out springs and adjusted clickers. It plows through the rough stuff, rocks logs and I feel very little. I may just do a service and ride it another season as is. Apparently the 4 strokes are setup different than the 2 strokes. Being winter I have mine torn down and am just trying to decide what to do with them, service wise. decisions, decisions...

 

[Kawagumby]

Jarvis rides for Husqvarna and like any other factory rider, they cannot comment on their forks or it's internals other than saying "stock". The last rider who did came extremely close to termination. And I have seen several of the mechanics talk about how they liked the "stock" condition of the forks and I know they don't run them that way. Whether or not Jarvis runs "stock" front forks, no idea, but I wouldn't.

I remember Brad Lackey and his Simons Bros USD forks. Won the championship, end of line.

 

[sthomps]

I always hate reading any suspension or jetting threads because they always go to the extreme ends of every point of view. There is a few engineering misses in the 4cs but they are fixable. Heck, WP makes some fantastic suspension and I can see why KTM goes with them, ownership aside. You think the competitors air forks are awesome out of the box, for the average hacker ya, for people that push it heck no. They might be worse off. Fact is if you are a more advanved rider you'll generally want a custom revalve anyways and I would bet big money you don't have to go to the radical extremes that zipty has done. Seems the majority of the major suspension company's have redesigned base and mid valves that fix 99% of the complaints.

As for my own personal experience, I think they are generally quite good, not as good as a set of OC WP forks in terms of front end comfort, grip and feel. I just didn't like how the behavior changed from the start of the ride to end of the ride and general vague feel with the occasional scarey deflection at the worst possible time. My forks are off with Stillwell as we speak and I've no doubts they'll come back feeling more than fantastic.

 

[Motosportz]

I would bet big money you don't have to go to the radical extremes that zipty has done.

Robert worked on his diligently (TE300 for technical stuff) with some suspension guys for months and was having limited results for his needs. Took it to an AMA Hall of Fame multi time champion and expert suspension engineer with ridiculous experience / resume who runs race teams and had it fixed. He loves it now. If Ty thought it needed that level of work to get to where Robert wanted I'm not going to argue. I have ridden several ZipTy suspension bikes and all are amazing.

 

[Tinken]

I have no problem with you taking your suspension to Kevin, we are booked solid because of our current success with the 4CS. You will unfortunately pay more and receive less. I can't help that, but you will get them back quicker and maybe that is more of what you are looking for. I'm sure your suspension will work great. Ty is slow, meticulous and punctilious, tests everything and cuts each part to custom fit. You get factory performance without the factory price.

 

[john01]

I'll trust what Timken and Kelly have to say and the only place I will be shipping mine to is ZipTy. For exactly the symptoms you describe is to send them to the what I feel is the best. I'm not a racer nor fast but I do want to KNOW with confidence where the front end is going and when.

 

[PJW]

I have a 2014 KTM XC250 with 4CS forks. The only thing they are good for is finding loose change in tall grass when you ride over it. Harsh. I don't understand why every few years these factories think we need a re-engineer of telescopic forks. These multi-national corporations sell us near $10,000 dollar bikes with basically unrideable front ends, it's mind boggling. These multi-billion dollar corporations can't get them right, but some small mod company can? Why is that? It is so tiring trying to set up a bike every time you get a new one, suspension being the biggest issue, I know it prevents me from buying new bikes more often. Buy a new bike, get a revalve, get decent tires and tubes, get a spark arrestor, get a skid plate, handguards..........nuts.

 

[racemx904]

I agree that the average person can and will ride with pretty much any fork and be fine.... Once you hit a certain speed its going to take a revalve regardless of which fork you have, doesnt matter OC, CC, air or 4cs....

When we were riding KX500s I could not get the forks on that beast to act anything close to good and went to a KYB factory guy.... he said mx forks are cannot flow enough oil in stock form for off road.... I asked how to fix... well if a guy drilled "x" amount of holes "x" size down the damper rod it would flow enough.... hmmmm so I asked.... So your saying to do that?.... Oh No he said but if a Guy were to do it, it would be a lot better.... lol so I did and it was a million times better

As the suspension progresses to meet mx needs it gets farther from what off road guys need.... it shouldnt take Ty reinventing the wheel to totally redesign a pair of forks to make them work.... it seems that Huskys and some KTMs come with a headlight and clearly will most likely never be moto'd somebody at one of these manufacturers would say hey lets put OC forks on and save money and make a better margin.... IDK seems crazy...

 

[Motosportz]

These multi-national corporations sell us near $10,000 dollar bikes with basically unrideable front ends, it's mind boggling. These multi-billion dollar corporations can't get them right, but some small mod company can? Why is that?

I dont get this either. The bikes that seem to come with really good suspension are the kinda odd balls. Beta (not so much an odd ball anymore) Sherco, and surprisingly my AJP all have great stock suspension. I have ridden several few year old KTMs with OC forks (W models) and liked them just fine. It almost seems like they just started tossing the same SX fork on all bikes recently. That said I liked the suspension the FE350 I sampled but it was a quick ride and not a lot of rocks and roots.

 

[Motosportz]

As the suspension progresses to meet mx needs it gets farther from what off road guys need.... it shouldnt take Ty reinventing the wheel to totally redesign a pair of forks to make them work.... it seems that Huskys and some KTMs come with a headlight and clearly will most likely never be moto'd somebody at one of these manufacturers would say hey lets put OC forks on and save money and make a better margin.... IDK seems crazy...

100% agree.

 

[Tinken]

These multi-national corporations sell us near $10,000 dollar bikes with basically unrideable front ends, it's mind boggling. These multi-billion dollar corporations can't get them right, but some small mod company can? Why is that?

When it comes to suspension, we are actually not a small mod company. We are the USA distributor for Tenneco Marzocchi S.r.l. (a $5.9 billion global manufacturing company with approximately 21,000 employees worldwide) with full Marzocchi engineering support. Ty and Pedro are amazing suspension people, they can just look at hydraulics and know where/what to change. Also, the Davis family owns TerryCable Inc. which engineers and manufactures state of the art suspension systems for Harley Davidson.

Don't get me wrong here, I agree with you. We are actually contracted with KTM for R&D, but they choose not to use all of our resources. We are however devoted and committed to the Husqvarna community, literally giving you factory or "small company" type support. Kurt Caselli used to sneak his suspension over to us and we still work with/manufacture parts for ProCircuit, Precision Concepts, Racetech, ESR and many other suspension companies.

 

[PC.]

Just saw this on ktm talk. Sounds like a recall is coming.



Here is a fresh Safety Recall from KTM that could affect the following 2015 models:
125 SX
150 SX
250 SX
250 XC
300 XC
300 XC-W SIX DAYS
250 SX-F
250 XC-F
350 SX-F
350 XC-F
350 XCF-W SIX DAYS
450 SX-F
450 XC-F

KTM North America has determined that a defect which relates to motor vehicle safety exists with selected 2015 models, pertaining to the proper tightening torque of the piston rod on the front fork cap. To ensure the highest level of safety, performance, reliability and customer satisfaction, it is necessary to have the tightening torque of the piston rod to the fork cap inspected on all affected units.

On affected models, during use there is a possibility that the piston rod could loosen and become detached from the fork cap. This could cause the piston rod to become locked within the fork tube which may result in improper fork performance, potentially destabilizing the front end of the motorcycle; this could lead to an accident which could cause injury to the rider or others.

 

[robertaccio]

I will opt to be a chicken, for that one.

I just spotted a underside shot of Alfredo Gomez's factory bike......looks like he has adjustable base valves on his "4CS" bike.

 

[Tinken]

I love KTM. I can't tell you how impressed I am with them...