310R oil breather

[Giack Husky310R]

I open this discussion because I have had a terrible doubt, of those who do not let you sleep at night, on the oil and oil vapor recovery circuit of the te 310 2013 I am starting to reassemble. The first doubt concerns the "recirculation" of the oil vapors in the filter casing (n ° 11) which I do not know whether to leave or eliminate while the second concerns the pipe for re-injecting the liquid oil coming from the small tank into the frame directly into the engine sump. To understand better I put under the image of the spare part manual in which we understand quite well how it all works (it is attached below)
We say that I really don't like the big hose (No. 2) because in addition to being able to break / pull out easily and also could easily bring with the recovery oil even some dirt or dirt that other than would go straight into the oil pump ... in both cases it would not be a good experience. Looking at the photos of the 310 of Salminen it is clearly seen that the recirculation in the cup is capped with the cap of the tc 250 (the tc te 250 do not need the liquid recovery for the lower pressure of the casings) but then you can not see anything other to understand how it is put. Definetely I have no idea how to refit everything, what to plug and what not
Thanks in advance for all the help

 

[Trenchcoat85]

you are right to be concerned. While most people believe the liquid return hose is vulnerable to damage (not in my experience; using a skid plate) the hose itself cracks badly with age.

I filled my stock oil return/drain bolt and filled it with epoxy. BTW, the stock TC/TXC drain bolt and screen are different then the TE's IIRC. so that is why i went with the epoxy rather than just a new TC drain bolt.... the screen was expensive. I also advocate plumbing the entire oil breather system similar to the TC (liquids to the head; pressure to the outside atmosphere) ore even better the TXC (liquid returns to the head; pressure to the clean side of the airfilter... so there is no exposure to outside water or dust)

 

[WWWRU]

I filled my stock oil return/drain bolt and filled it with epoxy.

So how did you plumb the return line?

 

[Giack Husky310R]

First of all thank you very much for your reply Trenchcoat85...really appreciated!!!
because of my bad english I partially understood the solution you adopted, apart the gloued drain bolt. I do not understand where the condensed steam of oil goes when you plug the oil return/drain bolt and then i don't know what to do with the oil vapor return in the air filter box, if i have to leave it in or making it dissolve in atmosphere (like the tc 250 does)
I was thinking of purchasing a zip ty racing drain back kit to solve the problem with the original return hose. I write from italy (where nobody knows the existence of that kit) and there all people tell me to plug everything and to leave only the vapor drain from the head free to drip the excess oil on the chain. I really don't like the last solution because according to me dirt can be sucked through that free hose without a cap or a filter

 

[Trenchcoat85]

TXC: from the engine, the hot oil vapor goes up the hose from the valve cover. the cooler liquid oil goes back down this same hose (#4 on my diagram), into the valve cover and engine. Our bikes have a small screen in the frame fitting here btw.

The excesses pressure goes thru hose #2 and back into the air cleaner; not the atmosphere.

you will have to move the hoses on your frame to match the TXC; also you will have to plug the extra hose outlet that the TE has in the frame. Study both diagrams so you understand the difference.

So how did you plumb the return line?

I never finished the project, but on the 2 oil changes i did there was minimal liquid oil being held in the return hose (connected to the plugged drain plug as a place holder). Unfortunately, I was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer a couple of months ago and a bunch of "to do" projects kinda took a back seat . however, if I do finish this, my TE will be plumbed exactly like a TXC, not a TC (which is open to the atmosphere).

 

[Giack Husky310R]

Thank you really much again Trenchcoat, now I understand how oil vapor recovery works in the txc and I will also mount it like the txc so the system will be closed from the outside. Hold on for cancer, you have to beat that bastard and get back to your 310 soon!!

 

[WWWRU]

I have the drain back kit installed, but I dislike the whole contraption you have to deal with in lieu of a simple oil fill cap. I was thinking about tapping the return line right into the side of the engine case and wanted to see if anyone has done something similar in the past.

 

[Johnrg]

I think the draining oil from the frame/catch tank is equal or potentially less detrimental in any debris that may occur using the ZT recirc. kit directly to the sump, compared to the hose to the rear of the sump. As stock, it is recirculated to the inside of the cylindrical filter, pre-oil pump. It may in fact have any debris at the fitting on startup, drawing it into the oil pump first. The rest of the oil is filter being external/outside that cylindrical filter. The latter with the Zipty kit may then offer more filtration as the oil is pulled from the sump. I have not had issues but I can imagine when very old and if left to rust could flake and drop debris into the sump potentially. Either way.... The lower rear sump fitting was a pia though the banjo fitting also finicky. I have not found it problematic though in use with oil measured carefully, good crush washers in hand and careful fitting and tightening of the banjo. My background is more with road race engine setup with all vents going to a catch tank and running velocity stacks, no routing to an air filter/intake.

If fully reassembling an old bike and frame is bare, one may be able to scope out the catch area, flush and coat with fresh oil or re-route some hose to an outside catch tank of your own making.

Scott... Sorry to hear about your cancer. I went through prostate cancer over a year ago. Hoping you can get it sidelined.

I had some fun twice on the gateway trail on mtb in the last month. Finding Mt. Shasta a good destination for a couple of days instead of driving through.

 

[Giack Husky310R]

I'm really concerned with the frame catch tank because today afternoon while I was preparing the frame for painting (washing it with aceton after sand blasting) I've cleaned the catch tank by filling it with petrol and then with brake cleaner...while the tank was filled with gasoline i've spotted a little leak of gasoline coming from the bolt housing of the tank (right behind steering stem) and also a minor leak under the frame...this means that catch tank isn't sealed from outside and possibly dust can be sucked for example from tank bolt housing. At least I don't feel confortable recirculating oil in the sump or air in the intake boot that are coming from the frame catch tank.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

I'm really concerned with the frame catch tank because today afternoon while I was preparing the frame for painting (washing it with aceton after sand blasting) I've cleaned the catch tank by filling it with petrol and then with brake cleaner...while the tank was filled with gasoline i've spotted a little leak of gasoline coming from the bolt housing of the tank (right behind steering stem) and also a minor leak under the frame...this means that catch tank isn't sealed from outside and possibly dust can be sucked for example from tank bolt housing. At least I don't feel confortable recirculating oil in the sump or air in the intake boot that are coming from the frame catch tank.

i'm not sure that your leak is a huge issue... there should be positive pressure in the system. Remember the TC (and most race bikes, old cars, airplanes, etc) are vented to the atmosphere. as an ex-engineer, this bugs me but (really) there is not too much wrong with it except for minor pollution issues.

one issue i've heard of once is the tank/frame suffering from internal rust. i've never seen it (haven't been looking hard though) but i believe our bikes have a fine screen on the low hose fitting.

,,,or maybe not- i can't remember if it's called out in the parts book..

 

[Giack Husky310R]

Thanks again Trenchcoat!!
In my frame there was non sign of rust in the catch tank and after cleaning I've coated with engine oil so It won't rust in the time frame for painting and reassembling. I'm an engineer too, but a civil engineer
In the end I decided and bought the drain back kit from zypty because I've discovered, thanks to you, that putting tc 250 drain plug involved changing also the metal screen pre-oil pump filter and I have already a spare filter for te-txc and i didn't want to spend another 60 bucks for another metal screen for tc 250. I'm also thinking of putting an another filter on the line that routes oil vapor to the airboot, like a gasoline filter so also the air coming into the air boot after the air filter will be always clean.
Yes in the low hose fitting (the one that originally goes to the bottom of the sump) there is a fine metal screen filter similar to the pre-oil pump filter in the sump.

 

[hellbergarn]

Iam have the drain back kit to
And sometime when i change oil its
A little milky in the drain back hose?
I thinking to maby plug the hose to the airbox
I dont see any use off it? The oil is coming
Back to the engine? Or is it something iam missing?

 

[Johnrg]

Milky may mean you have some moisture getting in. Are you loosing coolant? Bike sitting out in the rain and snow (thinking condensation in the frame catch tank)? Just a thought.

 

[hellbergarn]

Im thinking condensation too?
Or maby getting water in thro airbox?

 

[Johnrg]

Could be if through some deep water crossing though I think hose connection is top of airbox. I don't think you would find it drawing water in. Possible to get into intake tract though and potentially past rings. I would see after an oil change if it still is occurring. I guess there is the water pump seal as well as clutch fluid if either seals are failing.

 

[Giack Husky310R]

Happy new year guys!!!
I took advantage of these holidays to reassemble my 310 and today while doing the first oil change I finally installed the drain back kit...thanks johnrg for your instructions on CF for the installation of the kit, really useful!!
At the end I've reassembled all as stock for the te-txc except for the drain back kit.

 

[funmachines]

A related oil system question - is there any benefit to changing to a larger ID hose and fittings for the line that runs from the bottom end up to the head? This is the one with the banjo bolts that you can see in the picture above . The factory one on my 2012 is about the same size as a -3 an line and it is relatively easy to go to a -4 size. Is it worth doing or a waste of time?

Thanks

 

[Giack Husky310R]

A related oil system question - is there any benefit to changing to a larger ID hose and fittings for the line that runs from the bottom end up to the head? This is the one with the banjo bolts that you can see in the picture above . The factory one on my 2012 is about the same size as a -3 an line and it is relatively easy to go to a -4 size. Is it worth doing or a waste of time?

Thanks

Sincerely I don't know, the only thing that passed in my mind is that increasing the size of the oil line oil pressure to the head will drop down a little...