310 starter gear casing broken - need help please!

[R_Little]

Great, thanks! I have both tools sitting in my cart and I'm adding some other goodies (Drain Back Kit, Axel pull and more).

Is the holder really necessary? It definitely looks well made but can I get away with a less expensive solution? I do plan to keep the bike awhile longer yet so I might just pull the trigger.

Also, can anyone comment on the worm gear and acceptable wear? I would have expected the profile to be square but it appears that mine has a little groove starting to appear. The worm drive is possibly leaving it's mark, albeit minor at this point. I'm just not clear on what a new one would look like so I can't compare, perhaps they just come this way?

Thanks again everyone. I appreciate the help

How many miles on the bike?

The spags usually last 3-4 years of regular use.
The sprag in my 2010 seized two years ago and i did not use the e-start all that much.
The 2010 and 2011 worm gears were recalled by Husky in 2013 I believe for improper hardness.

As for the flywheel holder, the flywheel is the number 1 trouble spot for these bikes. If you are going to keep the bike, buy it.

I've used mine at least a dozen times, fixing my bike and a bunch of other x-lites with sheared woodruff keys and seized sprags.

 

[Judgie]

How many miles on the bike?

Currently it has just over 6,000km so about 3,750 Miles


I have had a rash of starting issues but I do love the bike and intend to run it for at least a few more years. At this point I think that the sprag is defective and needs replacement, it's binding in a way that I can't even kick the bike.

Does the woodruff key need to be removed prior to extracting the flywheel? (Please ignore me, I figured it out)

 

[Jonnygas]

Anyone got part no for the tc cover im doing away with my electric start sprag knackered and cracked case!!

 

[R_Little]

Halls cycles should have the parts fiche on the web site.

it's a cheap part.

 

[Judgie]

Wanted to post an update....

Valve shims were all within spec and did not require changing. Exhaust were out less than .02, Intakes were good.

Picked up my Flywheel tool from ZipTy and finally removed the sprag. I had enough concerns with it's condition that I bought a new one. Pics of the old attached;

Once I get it back together I will let you know how it goes.

 

[R_Little]

Does not look terribly worn.

What is that twist in the cover plate on the right?

 

[Judgie]

Does not look terribly worn.

What is that twist in the cover plate on the right?

It really isn't worn at all except for that little ding in the side. That ding was enough that it would stick and remain locked so that I couldn't start the bike (the starter was engaged all the time).

It is now replaced, all is back where it should be and the bike is starting great!

Thanks for all the help everyone, very much appreciated!

 

[Trenchcoat85]

That scar at the 12 o'clock position on the bottom picture of your sprag was probably the result or cause of your drama.

 

[mr_extreme112]

Hello, i just had the same problem with the exploding starter case. I had to replace everything including the Flywheel, quiet expensive. Does only using the electric starter if absolutely necesary make the system last longer? Im asking because i think this is kickback related and not wear on the parts, the starter worked beautifully till the end. Flywheel key was still intact and valve clearance is spot on. Im a bit scared, as i said expensove fix if it happens again

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Hello, i just had the same problem with the exploding starter case. I had to replace everything including the Flywheel, quiet expensive. Does only using the electric starter if absolutely necesary make the system last longer? Im asking because i think this is kickback related and not wear on the parts, the starter worked beautifully till the end. Flywheel key was still intact and valve clearance is spot on. Im a bit scared, as i said expensove fix if it happens again

the flywheel too?? wow. got any/all pictures?

it is kickback or other forms of the engine turning backwards "related". here's my analysis:
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/sh...-electric-starting-a-few-long-thoughts.87927/

 

[mr_extreme112]

Not my Picture, but basically it looked like that, a little bit worse. I dont think this was my main cause, more of a wear-over-time problem. So i just have to hope that it doesnt happen again? Should i even loctite and lapp the flywheel to the crank? I would rather have the key shear than the kickback trashing my starter.
Edit: haven't seen a KTM Sprag clutch wear into the flywheel like that, is this just bad material choice on BMW's part? Should't be affected by the shitty worm gear design?

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Not my Picture, but basically it looked like that, a little bit worse. I dont think this was my main cause, more of a wear-over-time problem. So i just have to hope that it doesnt happen again? Should i even loctite and lapp the flywheel to the crank? I would rather have the key shear than the kickback trashing my starter.
Edit: haven't seen a KTM Sprag clutch wear into the flywheel like that, is this just bad material choice on BMW's part? Should't be affected by the shitty worm gear design?

the sprag is sort of a commodity item, and should be pretty much the same from brand to brand. Some hedging there I understand, but they're pretty much an off-the-shelf item... no one is home-growing these things- they're getting 'em from an OEM.

The wear on the inner-outside (ha) of that flywheel kinda looks like a single pawl or dogbone was in constant contact. If so, it could have been a garter spring problem, but really- more likely it was a piece of something keeping a pawl from retracting all the way, and wearing on the flywheel. Look for a worn pawl(s). I'm thinking that the inner pawl surface should just microscopically touch the ring gear hub, and the outer clear the flywheel by a gnats ass (and if not- should be in ultra light contact with the flywheel).

The ring gear barely turns at all, especially on our bikes, in the life of a motorcycle (I'd estimate 12 revolutions for ever hour of riding: it takes an average of 3 revs for my engine to catch, and I use the starter about 4x's an hour); remember that the ring does NOT turn unless the worm is turning (and this is the source of our problems).

A good hard look at your sprag and a little reflection should tell you the story of what happened.

Sprags tend to be in the $80-$120 range (and some honda ones fit also). So I might run that flywheel, maybe using a little jewler's rouge or tripoli to smooth it tho, with just a new sprag. If that turns out not to be workable, you can always buy the more expensive flywheel too.

Caveat: most people would not agree with that advice. Also- you can leave the sprag out and just kick, and never have a problem again. I think.

I believe that the key take away is to prevent kickback (referring to my list of 12 or so ways to reduce that chance of kickback here)

 

[R_Little]

the sprags are sort of a commodity item, and should be pretty much the same from brand to brand. Some hedging there I understand, but they're pretty much an off-the-shelf item... no one is OEM'ing these things.

The wear on the inner-outside (ha) of that flywheel kinda looks like a single pawl or dogbone was in constant contact. If so, it could have been a garter spring problem, but really- more likely it was a piece of something keeping a pawl from retracting all the way, and wearing on the flywheel. Look for a worn pawl(s). I'm thinking that the inner pawl should just microscopically touch the ring gear hub, and clear the flywheel by a gnats ass (and if not- should be in ultra light contact with the flywheel). the ring gear barely turns at all, especially on our bikes, in the life of a motorcycle (I'd estimate 12 revolutions for ever hour of riding: it takes an average of 3 revs for my engine to catch, and I use the starter about 4x's an hour); remember that the ring does NOT turn unless the worm is turning (and this is the source of our problems).

A good hard look at your sprag and a little reflection should tell you the story of what happened.

Sprags tend to be in the $80-$120 range (some honda ones fit also). So I might run that flywheel, maybe using a little jewler's rouge or tripoli to smooth it tho, with just a new sprag. If that turns out not to be workable, you can always buy the more expensive flywheel too.

Caveat: most people would not agree with that advice. Also- you can leave the sprag out and just kick, and never have a problem again. I think.

I believe that the key take away is to prevent kickback (referring to my list of 12 or so ways to reduce that chance of kickback here)

Double thumbs up!
This is exactly the problem. I can tell by experience. I've been through a couple of flywheels and sprags on my 2010.
i have one on my workbench stuck so tight I can't seem to remove it at all. I'll have to cut it out so see what happened.

I beleive 2010 ish CRF250 sprags are the same.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Double thumbs up!
This is exactly the problem. I can tell by experience. I've been through a couple of flywheels and sprags on my 2010.
i have one on my workbench stuck so tight I can't seem to remove it at all. I'll have to cut it out so see what happened.

I beleive 2010 ish CRF250 sprags are the same.

Rich-
I've gotta say that everything I learned about this was from you or because of you. I did not even own my husky until i got one new in 2014. I have 8000+ miles and maybe 400 hours (est) on it... and never had a starter/sprag/worm/flywheel problem. (btw, i became a ch member in 2010 'cause I liked the brand; my kid bought a 511 in 2012 and so i became more active. (user "shovelhead85" until my account froze for whatever reason). IIRC, you were going to the dealer and/or trying to solve the problem back in 2011 maybe? Everybody else: AFAIK, it was Rich that came up with the lap/locktite work-around for the flywheel.

but i like to analyze people's issues, i speculate out loud quite a bit, and some folks send me their broken stuff (thanks go to those guys especially!)- which really helped me wrap my mind around this problem in particular.

as you found out, when you shear a key (probably because of the worm drive) the ignition gets advanced, and your next kick or electric start may send one of the starter components out thru the cases because of the extreme kickback (and again, the worm drive).

like i said before- i believe husky was on the verge of fixing the worm drive issue but it got dropped (like the motor itself) when KTM purchased them. Too bad- it's a great little motor, possibly could have been better than KTM's 350 with some more dev. (OTOH- that 350 is a fantastic engine)

just to re-iterate to people unfamiliar with the electric start xlite: don't let your engine go backwards- no kickbacks, no rolling backwards and dumping the clutch, minimum holding on a hill with the engine off, in gear & clutch out.

 

[R_Little]

Rich-
I've gotta say that everything I learned about this was from you or because of you. I did not even own my husky until i got one new in 2014. I have 8000+ miles and maybe 400 hours (est) on it... and never had a starter/sprag/worm/flywheel problem. (btw, i became a ch member in 2010 'cause I liked the brand; my kid bought a 511 in 2012 and so i became more active. (user "shovelhead85" until my account froze for whatever reason). IIRC, you were going to the dealer and/or trying to solve the problem back in 2011 maybe? Everybody else: AFAIK, it was Rich that came up with the lap/locktite work-around for the flywheel.

but i like to analyze people's issues, i speculate out loud quite a bit, and some folks send me their broken stuff (thanks go to those guys especially!)- which really helped me wrap my mind around this problem in particular.

as you found out, when you shear a key (probably because of the worm drive) the ignition gets advanced, and your next kick or electric start may send one of the starter components out thru the cases because of the extreme kickback.

like i said before- i believe husky was on the verge of fixing the worm drive issue but it got dropped (like the motor itself) when KTM purchased them. Too bad- it's a great little motor, possibly could have been better than KTM's 350 with some more dev. (OTOH- that 350 is a fantastic engine)

just to re-iterate to people unfamiliar with the electric start xlite: don't let your engine go backwards; no kickbacks, no rolling backwards and dumping the clutch, minimum holding on a hill engine off, in gear & clutch out.

i bought one of the first TE-250 x-lites in the U.S. and I had a lot of teething issues. E-start being one of them.
When I took it apart the 1st time I said "this looks like an XR80 flywheel with an e-start system tacked on behind it. It seemed a little too "x-lite" to me, like Husky went a little too far trying to have the lightest engine in the class, which it was and still probably is. That being said i have been riding my 2012 TXC310 for 5 years now and have had zero E-start or other issues with it. Although I tend to kick start it unless I trail stall so the E-start is not used too much. Actually the 2012 TXC310 is a fine bike. even better than the later red heads that seemed to boil gas in the tank in tight woods owing to, I believe too little clearance between the gas tank and motor that wore holes in coolant lines also.

Always a pleasure reading your posts Trench!