TE/TC 2015 Suspension - Making 'stock' work

[hawaii-rider]

My intent with this thread is to capture rider settings, adjustments/tweaks and those things tried and done to make it work as delivered.
(short of shipping it off with a big $$$ check to a pro builder)

I know there are a lot of threads on the 4CS specifically and the focus of the thread is who to ship it to and who charges the least/most and why they are the best etc. Thats fine, thats one approach to things (just like a new carb, or new tires etc) and this is not a "dont do that" thread.

As it stands right now, I am of the belief (and after discussing with my suspension tuner that I have used for YEARS for a LOT of bikes) that there is nothing cheap or "bad" with the suspension as it is shipped and that it is really high quality gear with no shortcuts anywhere.
Everything else about this bike is top shelf, why would KTM put known junk on it - sorry doesnt make sense a firm of KTMs background would do something like that at least intentionally and without a lot of testing etc (could have they, yup, just doesnt make sense they would). The current 4cs is another step in the evolution and pretty new, so its not like there is YEARS of tuning history available.

So I find countless threads of "I rode it a couple of times, adjusted the clickers some, gave up and shipped it off with a big check." Okay, thats one course of action.

But......How much as been 'captured' about all things attempted to make what is shipped on the bikes work? (as was mentioned these things aint cheap so how do you make what you have at this price point work?)

• How many hours on the suspension (new or broken in?)
• Stock oil or did you flush it and replace it (as is recommended for all new suspension after initial break in)
• Spring weights?
• Terrain target/focus?
• Ride type (CC, trail or race)?
• Oil height (what was tried)?
• Oil weight (what brand/weight and why)?
• Comp and rebound settings?
• Bleed valves - bleed before/after/during? Any effects?
• Bike?
• Rider specs?

Everyone is different and has different 'likes' in terms of suspension, but I am going to try just about everything in my ability in my shop (and from comments recommendations from the riders/racers here) to make the stock stuff work, BEFORE I ship it off for re-valve etc.

At the end of the day I may be boxing it up and letting the brown truck take it somewhere - right now Im gonna give a solid go at making whats on there work and share what I have found and thats the purpose of this thread and I hope any and everyone else that has tackled this shares what they have found.
Very wise man once told me:
" beware of the folks that orchestrate the problem, cause and the cure"

HR


2015 TE300
New springs from Jeff Slaven - targeted for an Intermediate, Vet (54 YO) 240 pound rider (6'3")
PNW single track and central washington runs (Vantage, Desert 100 etc) and a few Vintage MX tracks because I can!

 

[Kevin A]

Once the snow melts and I actually ride, I'll participate. I have no plans to do anything with my suspension before a service is due, other than adjust settings, despite the bad press. Even then, if I find it to be satisfactory, I still don't know if I'll spend the money for mods. How bad can it possibly be?

Having said that, I've surely doomed myself and will likely be sending my suspension out after one ride.

 

[Aaron platt]

I would check your oil height right out of the gate. Mine was about 10cc over full from the factory in my 300. It made it a little less harsh when I set it to an even 100mm. I'm about 185 pounds and found the stock springs in my 300 and 501 too soft. It just bottomed out all the time and was kinda hard to ride aggressively in the fast stuff, but wasn't bad in the slower and more technical stuff. I installed stiffer springs in my 300 (4.6nm and 58.8nm) and couldn't get it to feel good no matter how much I played with the clickers and sag. Then at about 12 hours my shock started leaking oil so I just sent everything to Zipty. In the meantime I put my 501 suspension on my 300 and have been riding the crap out of it. Now at almost 40 hours I don't mind the 501 forks so much with the 4.4nm springs and whatever valving the 501 came with. I should be getting my suspension back from Zipty soon and hopefully it's bad ass.

Suspension is totally subjective and there is no one size fits all. I would play with what you got before spending any money on something you may not need.

 

[bowser]

have you rode it yet? if so, what do you not like with it?
do you have the skills/tools to revolve yourself?
have you set sag? do you have the right springs?

 

[be350ka]

I too will participate once my bike arrives. Supposed to be February, but we will see.

 

[hawaii-rider]

No different than a jetting thread - at least that is the intent.

People ride different places, different skill levels and all those other variables.
Having something like this (just like jetting) you at least have a starting point that is maybe close to your situation.
Otherwise?.......just starting from scratch.

I prefer to go off the knowledge of all the riders and racers on the web - I try to learn something new every day and share what things I have learned as well.

Like the bikes, the suspension is getting crazy advanced and complicated, need a collective team effort to make em what they can be.


HR

 

[Scott Peterson]

Here's what I'm trying. 230 geared up. 30 miles total and it's definitely stiffer than stock. It does good on roots and square edge trail junk. I hope the springs settle in with a few more hours.

 

[swtwtwtw]

2014 TC250. 175-185lb vet novice/40 int. 30mm rear sag, 2 turns out hi comp, 16 clicks out soft comp, 9 clicks out rebound. The rear tire has touched the fender a handful of times, mostly off of 70-80 footers. Old style fork, compression 16 clicks out and rebound 10 clicks out. Fork height 6 mm above the triple clamp. Bridgestone 203/204 at 11 psi.

If I were to adjust anything more on the forks it would be to add a steering dampener. It is a headshaker a la Honda CR250's. Right now I adjust by keeping the front end light and waiting to the last minute to downshift on rough fast straights. I ride primarily Glen Helen, when it is rough.

 

[Benjimoto]

Found the stock forks ok, if a little stiff to start with. Anyway I put 30hrs on them till they were due a service and decided to get a service and a revalve at the same time to take the harshness out of the mid stroke. Works for me.

 

[Chums]

I hope you guys can compile some meaningful data here but I see, unlike a jetting thread with ways to measure data, this thread possibly not having the same type of concrete data since its so subjective. It may benefit those that struggle with the basics and those who can share what changes have made a difference. I think we have three types of riders, guys casual ride and don't adjust suspension, guys who understand the value of good suspension and pay a professional to do it, and the handful who understand the value of suspension and have the unique ability to adjust there own internals. I've had pros adjust theses 4cs and were not good due to how unique they are and have come to terms that maybe only a handful of pros actually know what's going on with these, if your an individual with this knowledge then props to you! As for making these work as is I just think there will be more compromise than having someone who understands them work on them. That being said I'm interested to see what the best stock set up can be and how it would measure up against the big money guys.

 

[HuskyMax]

I agree with chums, I don't see riders that are wanting change, just throwing shims at it and being satisfied. All the big name tuners say the same thing about lack of flow. All of them change internals or reconfigure design.

 

[fletchman45]

I understand making stock work. A vast majority of riders may be able to do that, however from c riders to double a I know alot of guys who just pretty much figure a revalve in. The reality is in my opinion the te models should just come with openchamber forks. If this were the case I may have popped for one and removed the estart stuff as I added a flywheel wight and a te tank anyway. Keep in mind there are guys winning with stock 4cs forks. I think a guy really needs to ride the bike and try to connect with it. I have always had halls revalve my suspension so for me it is a no brainer as the bike is done when I pick it up. I'm hoping these will work and there is no need to ship off to ziptye. In reality I may have preferred a true Italian made beta with the zoke 48s on the bike or another Italian TM. I'll give the pumpkin a chance for the crown and thats it..... The fact that they put the same forks on all models just shows typical platform sharing to save money. I always felt husqvarna (Italian) should of kept 45s on the 125's and the wr models as flex is needed to absorb impact and just provide the more flex needed for woods riding....but they didn't. Can't wait to ride my bike! Very soon

 

[Motosportz]

I may have preferred a true Italian made beta with the zoke 48s on the bike or another Italian TM.

Buddy picked up a 2015 Beta 300rr yesterday. Really nice bike. Has Sachs 48mm forks on it not zokes. But they seem to be a few levels lower than my AJP Sach 48s as they do not have the DCL coating and preload adjusters. He said they are a bit stiff but I bet when they break in they will be very nice. BTW it is a very nice bike with excellent fit and finish.

 

[Kevin A]

Depends on the spec. The race editions Betas have Marz forks.

 

[Rubu]

I rode My TE250 with standard suspension and did not like it.

Rear is too up and front is harsh for My weight, 68kg...

 

[Chums]

Just something to add to the thread, I had Halls spring and valve 4 bikes for me and the three Italian bikes we very good I thought, the KTM husky they said just springs and the valving should be good. I went through my normal set up routine adjusting clickers and handle bar positions and found it to be acceptable at first. The more I rode it and the faster I pushed the more I noticed how unpredictable the front was so I began adjusting the rebound again and got it to turn OK but would fight the occasional unexpected washout or tuck under.
During my first race on the bike I got pounded to death by the harshness and found myself lowering compression on the fly only to realize I could either get pounded or blow through everything and have marshmallow suspension. I couldn't find a happy adjustment. As the suspension broke in it just became a marshmallow everywhere, it would feel fine then I'd hit a log at speed and it would instantly blow through everything and I'd loose the feeling in the front end leading to unpredictable glances and landings.
At this point I went to a local guy who had done my burg and he stiffened the living daylights out of the springs and valving. The good was I could bang off anything and be in control, the bad was it would push no matter the fork height, sag or clicker setting. This was what I had after 43hrs and 17 races. I decided I wasn't capable of fixing them and neither was my local guy and sent them off to zip Ty. They are in the mail as we sleek and I have no input as of now.

 

[reveille]

Very similar experience here. I actually made it 62 hours until the white flag went up. Marshmello is a fitting description.

 

[Bomber1b]

I have abou 20 hours on 2014 TC250 and the suspension gets better every ride. I ride/race the desert 90% of the time and I race a GP a couple time a year and I found the bike doesn't like slow, it works best when you charge into corners, whoops, rocks and it really does well in deep sand. I couldn't be happier.

 

[Scott Peterson]

Here is some feedback from stock suspension but new springs for my weight. 235 with gear. .46 fork springs, compression 21 out rebound 9 out. Rear shock 6.0 spring, 2.5 out on high speed and 21 out on low speed. Rebound at 12 out. Bike felt real good hitting 10" logs over trail in second gear. Absorbed small jumps in 3rd gear good. It does not bottom but uses a lot of the stroke. I think this will work fairly well in the woods, but not on tracks. To my surprise the adjusters do have a wide range of adjustment.

 

[hawaii-rider]

Quick Feedback

I did a full up break in ride this past weekend on my '15 TE300.
I checked the fork fluid level during my tear down/inspect/mod when I first got the bike and installed proper springs for me (240 pound rider target) from Slavens Racing.

I ride single track predominantly in the PNW, so lots of rocks and roots and whooped out hi use trails.
For starters, I set the suspension on the comfort setting front and rear per the owners manual shock sag set right at 100mm.

About 1/2 through the day I made the following adjustments:
Fork: 2 clicks softer on compression, 2 clicks firmer on rebound.
Shock: 2 clicks firmer on rebound

Someone asked at the end of the day how the suspension was.......

Shock: I honestly couldnt tell them about the rear ------ which means it was working pretty well if I couldnt remember any bad or it trying to toss me into the trees or rocks and roots. No kicks, no blowing through the stroke or bottoming hard or wanting to pass the front wheel.
Forks: Forks were a bit stiff to start with, but after the adjustments (and just two clicks to both settings) the forks were great the rest of the day. No sharp direction changes or harsh bottoming or deflection on rocks or roots. No shots up through the wrists to the shoulders etc etc.


The day after I tried to think again if there was anything that "stood out" about the bike/suspension and all I could do was grin to the point of hurting my face.
What an amazing machine with a fantastic motor. (oh and the NECJ needle was the ticket - wow.....response off idle is seamless but thats a separate thread)

I need more hours on the machine and continue to evaluate and see if things change - who knows what will happen and if my feelings on the suspension will change or not.
If the weather holds for this weekend I intend to do just that !!

Right now if you asked me about after market suspension mods......?
for me there is no reason to box up and send either the front or rear off to anyone, its pretty darn sweet right off the floor with some minor clicks and proper springs.

More hours is required now and see how I feel as time and miles go by.

HR