actually, i do. and it confirms my statement.
the average 300cc (or 250cc) dirtbike puts out 50-55 hp. you can tune those engines to 70-75 hp. take two of those, and you'll arrive at "reliable" 100-110 hp (same as a standard supersports bike) or "high-end racing" 140-150hp (same as the moto2 engine, slightly above 500cc 2t v2). you may want to add 10-20 hp, to consider "grand prix level efforts", but please consider the same also for the 4t engine.
i'm a huge fan of the 600cc-v2 concept, bytheway. for a road bike.
yes, i was exagerating, but you finally understood my point :-) i wonder about the real cost of a moto3 engine...
r
Rasputin - do some research and educate yourself , just, that little bit.
250cc twin 2ts, in their final years, were getting well over 100 HP at the rear wheel. The Aprilia / Gilera, somewhere between 110 /120. "Rumour" had it, that the "favoured riders" were into the 120+ mark. Standard rs250r Hondas, that you could purchase, had 92PS / 90.74HP @ 12,500rpm and 52.3NM 12,000rpm , or more, and they were completely uncompetive, at high levels. You'd have to fork out a lot of money for at least basic kits, and even more bags of money, given to noted tuners. Pedrosa's Honda, was reputed to have 109 HP at the rear wheel. In 2005. Goodness knows what Hiroshi Aoyama's 250 had, in the last year of 250 GPs -
sure, it just used Pedrosa's spare parts....... Anyone that think's Honda did not 'help' in the background, to win the very final 250GP Championships (that they'd had a large hand in killing off) - well, I've got a prime bit of real estate a few Ks away from me, on Single Ridges Road, Yellowrock, going that's perfectly safe in bushfires, that you might just want to pay through the nose for............... (insensitive,
Moi? - nope, just having ridden in the Blue Mountains as my 'back yard" for decades, and saying, rather loudly, at various council meetings, that houses
should never have been built in so many areas, we are now in the middle of a few hundred of those houses burning).
If you want to 'play with numbers', then knock the total down a smidge? - I've given you some numbers above to play with, go for it. So, 2,4 x say, 90.74HP, of a 'garden variety' rs250r, from over 1/2 a decade ago = 217.776. I've used the 'gutless' 250 number, to make up for any error / fudge factor within the simple 2.4 multiplier.
Seriously, are you that uniformed about 2 strokes? Are you that locked into the 4-$ Stroke delusion?
The NSR500vs were produced between 1996 to 2001 - I think first "for sale" ones were in 97. Apparently, only 20 /22 full bikes were made, but, of course, more engines were made. Still, they were a sold item - not a leased bike, and quite a few still exist, in private hands.
So, another set of numbers for you to play with - Honda gave out specs of 135HP @ 10,250rpm, in 1997, I think. Over a decade and a half ago, with a VTwin, reed valve 2t, with 2 x 40mm Keihin carbs. So, go 'click, click' on a calculator, with a 1.2 multiplier = 162 HP, with a 103KG weight. Give thought to just what a small amount of 'progress' that could be applied to that 'base' power unit would bring to those figures.
Exagerating makes you look foolish, to me. And, my understanding your point? Understand this point - educate yourself, and you'll become more knowledgable, if you take it in.
Yup, Moto 2 Racing ( and, 'lower down', Supersports World Championships - hence my referal to 600cc 4s and 675cc triples - that have more HP, still, I think, than Honda's 'spec' 600CBR engines in Moto 3) - cutting edge 'mid' ( and there's a very visible joke on what racing has become, even at 'near' the highest level ) capacity Road Race GP competition.
It's a bloody sad state of affairs, I think. Just as 250cc 4t and 450cc 4t racing is. Handicap class racing, it's as simple, and 'sorry,' as that .
300cc 2ts? Quite the weapon, but, in a tip to old, old FIM rules that banned simple overbores of 250 2ts, as they started to 'swamp' the big 4ts in the mid / late sixties, I'd like to see more than just overbored 250s being used, in a real, Open / or 'up to 450cc' class. When private owners, through the use of existing companies, and existing parts, can make their 250cc KTMs into up to 434cc bikes, I'd like to see Manufacturers oblidge to make more of an effort, that just overboring a 250. In the 500 class days, over the years, many different sizes, were run against each other. Husky owners / officienado's, surely would know that. There was no 'universal solution', until the dieing days of the 500 class, which, of course, then allowed up to 650 cc 4ts in. The faster / easier to ride 'privateer' Honda 500s, right up till the CRF 450R was realeased - well, quite a few of them were debored etc, down to 400 /430 cc.
