Just wondering what other 200 lb (Sr B) riders are using for spring rates ? ... I ride mostly ECEA hare scrambles and tight rocky single track trail. I Had WER revalve both ends and he suggested .44 in the front and leave the stock rear spring (5.4 kg i believe ?) Front still seems really stiff and "deflecty" but I think it may be due to a too soft rear spring (rear is "packing" in rocks). I'm at about 45mm static sag and around 105mm rider sag but had to put a fair amount of preload on the spring to get there ...
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2013 TXC310R Suspension
- Thread starter muggsy
- Start date
CCP
Husqvarna
AA Class
BSSR 12 TXC310 with the same WER revalve,and 44 springs up front. I thought the stock rear was a 5.2 on the 2012 though. I just have one ride with the new suspension but liked it a lot - no deflection at all. I'm about 190 with gear. I think my sag is at 98mm. (on the seat, attack position just enough feet to keep balanced, as per Drew)
Sounds like we have about the same set up .... The bike is worlds better than stock ( it was un-rideable in the Pa rocks!!) just not up to par with my WER suspended 2009 wr250. It almost feels like it has to much preload in the fork springs.... I get practically no fork sag when I sit on the bike (same "attack" technique you're using)..... My dealer tells me he sold a lot of 6.0 kg springs for these things for riders lighter than me ! ..... I may give a 5.8 or 6.0 a shot .....we'll see ....
CCP
Husqvarna
AA Class
yeah, my shoulder is still sore from a pretty bad crash at the HMDR. That's what forced me in getting the suspension done. Funny, I could never get the ass end of my WR250 to calm down. I used to have to back off the gas to get it to straighten out in the rocks.
I'm also running a trials with Tublis and about 8 pounds of air.
I'm also running a trials with Tublis and about 8 pounds of air.
MikeB
Husqvarna
AA Class
Merge racing makes a progressive preload spring for the forks which softens the initial feel of the forks and makes them smoother in that first few inches of travel. Lowering the fork oil a bit also softens things up a bit but the front rides a little lower in the travel.
The Oct 2013 issue of Dirt Bike came in the mail yesterday - on pg 30 is a quick article on a TXC310 all done up by CV4 (the hose people) - in it they claim that FTIracing (.com) did the suspension and has some tricks and trick parts which make the front off-road soft while still staying up in it's travel. I don't know what they are but wouldn't be surprised if they include the springs I mentioned.
At 192# I like the stock spring rates of my 2012 - and run a 90/100 tire up front with tubliss at 7.5# for the feel of an inch more cush. In the rear a Pirelli trials tire deadens the rear of the bike - tubliss with 7.5#. The weight of the Pirelli makes things a little weird in the air but otherwise it's like cheating - and lasts 3 times as long as a knobby. (edit - I was getting so much traction with the Pirelli I ended up adding 2 links to the chain to push the rear axle back - this added a little stability too)
The Oct 2013 issue of Dirt Bike came in the mail yesterday - on pg 30 is a quick article on a TXC310 all done up by CV4 (the hose people) - in it they claim that FTIracing (.com) did the suspension and has some tricks and trick parts which make the front off-road soft while still staying up in it's travel. I don't know what they are but wouldn't be surprised if they include the springs I mentioned.
At 192# I like the stock spring rates of my 2012 - and run a 90/100 tire up front with tubliss at 7.5# for the feel of an inch more cush. In the rear a Pirelli trials tire deadens the rear of the bike - tubliss with 7.5#. The weight of the Pirelli makes things a little weird in the air but otherwise it's like cheating - and lasts 3 times as long as a knobby. (edit - I was getting so much traction with the Pirelli I ended up adding 2 links to the chain to push the rear axle back - this added a little stability too)
I am slightly lighter than 200 ready to ride on a 2013 TC250R B class. I use the stock rear spring (5.2Kg) at 33mm static cold and 95mm rider measured on warm shock. In the woods I use forks 14C 10R and shock 14C 9R. I would go softer on compression if it was slow and rocky. Stock fork springs 4.6N. Stock springs and valving better than my works suspended KTMs. Handles way better too.
Hi there ive got a standard sprung 2013 TXC250r and im having trouble with the front end and massive armpump, i weigh 12.5 stones (175lbs) dry so probably 13/182 suited n booted. The front is quite harsh and ive read on the TC 2013 you should remove 20cc/ml of oil through the air bleed hole to help it fully stroke, i presume same goes for the TXC as same fork?
So im in the process of doing this and noticed the oil is quite thick, i believe the weight should be 7.5 correct?
Ive also heard of the progressive spring maybe this will help, im located in the UK so cant use your suspension guys and do it all DIY.
Thanks for any help here
UPDATE the oil is wayy too thick, the 5w and 10w i have drips, this is like silly putty in comparison, i will flush and add 7.5 (mix 10 and 5) and put 20ml less oil and see where that gets me.
Any other help very welcome, thanks
So im in the process of doing this and noticed the oil is quite thick, i believe the weight should be 7.5 correct?
Ive also heard of the progressive spring maybe this will help, im located in the UK so cant use your suspension guys and do it all DIY.
Thanks for any help here
UPDATE the oil is wayy too thick, the 5w and 10w i have drips, this is like silly putty in comparison, i will flush and add 7.5 (mix 10 and 5) and put 20ml less oil and see where that gets me.
Any other help very welcome, thanks
JustKiddin
Husqvarna
AA Class
Stevel,
I have the 2013 TXC 310R and weigh 165 lb bare (74kg) plus another 20lb (9kg) of riding gear. I ride enduro / GNCC type terrain, intermediate level
I am pretty sure 310r & 250r use the same suspension.
Follow vinduro's suspension set up to get your free and rider sag set up.
see http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/vinduros-suspension-setup-recommendations.17836 and the link to the discussion forum you will also find on that page.
I expect you will find the rear spring weight about perfect and you will get the rear sag sorted within a mm or two of target. Then you can play with your rear clickers to get it to your liking for riding areas and style.
However the front fork springs are a different story with the fork springs way too firm to achieve the correct sag requirements up front.
Standard springs are 4.6N/mm. I took a gamble and dropped two steps down to 4.2N/mm plus I changed the cartridge spring to a Merge Racing Rising Rate Spring (Light-Med). I used Amsoil Light shock therapy oil front and rear. From memory I used 350ml of oil in each main fork tube.
I did this after about 12 hours on the bike (so it was broken in plus it meant any of the initial break-in debris was also cleaned out of the fork & shock (if any)). I also gave the upper shock, linkage and swingarm bearings a full clean/lube - not a moment too soon, there is bugger all lube in there from the factory.
I used Adam Lithgow of Moto-Tec NZ, a local suspension and performance guy to do the work for me and he did some fantastic work on fine tuning the valving for me even further - fork and shock.
The end result was magic with the bulk of the improvement achieved by the change in main fork springs and the cartridge spring plus a known fork oil spec and volume. I still have some fine tuning to do including fork height in the clamps and tweaking the front/rear balance now that chassis geometry is slightly different than what I was used to with the previously incorrect fork ride height.
Hope that helps.
I have the 2013 TXC 310R and weigh 165 lb bare (74kg) plus another 20lb (9kg) of riding gear. I ride enduro / GNCC type terrain, intermediate level
I am pretty sure 310r & 250r use the same suspension.
Follow vinduro's suspension set up to get your free and rider sag set up.
see http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/vinduros-suspension-setup-recommendations.17836 and the link to the discussion forum you will also find on that page.
I expect you will find the rear spring weight about perfect and you will get the rear sag sorted within a mm or two of target. Then you can play with your rear clickers to get it to your liking for riding areas and style.
However the front fork springs are a different story with the fork springs way too firm to achieve the correct sag requirements up front.
Standard springs are 4.6N/mm. I took a gamble and dropped two steps down to 4.2N/mm plus I changed the cartridge spring to a Merge Racing Rising Rate Spring (Light-Med). I used Amsoil Light shock therapy oil front and rear. From memory I used 350ml of oil in each main fork tube.
I did this after about 12 hours on the bike (so it was broken in plus it meant any of the initial break-in debris was also cleaned out of the fork & shock (if any)). I also gave the upper shock, linkage and swingarm bearings a full clean/lube - not a moment too soon, there is bugger all lube in there from the factory.
I used Adam Lithgow of Moto-Tec NZ, a local suspension and performance guy to do the work for me and he did some fantastic work on fine tuning the valving for me even further - fork and shock.
The end result was magic with the bulk of the improvement achieved by the change in main fork springs and the cartridge spring plus a known fork oil spec and volume. I still have some fine tuning to do including fork height in the clamps and tweaking the front/rear balance now that chassis geometry is slightly different than what I was used to with the previously incorrect fork ride height.
Hope that helps.
Micfasto
Husqvarna
AA Class
If you are looking for 4.2N springs they are stock on the 2007 Yz250f 2006 and 2007 Yz250 then they went up to 4.3N front springs. you can get a good deal on take offs from those bikes.
Thanks for replies i posted also on another thread and updated with this. I will look for the forks springs mentioned above on ebay uk. as for the cartridge spring i will google it, i also heard a variable spring for the front good but a used YZF one cheaper!! My rear linkages have had grease valve/nipples fitted so no need to strip!
Thanks for replies ive found a great youtube vid but now need to make a 36mm inner cap tool so i can get the gloop out, the outer oil wasnt as bad but still too thick and black!
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrafDhaHbKc
strip and
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGjUpxEMrT0
rebuild with a handy drilling tip!!
Ive read that the inner oil chamber carries 200ml too much oil (http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/MXAS-2013-HUSQVARNA-TC250-MOTOCROSS-TEST-THERE-IS-9569.aspx) and to drain through bleed hole!
The service manual states ...Fill the cartridge with the specified oil (196 cm3-196ml- 11,96 in3).
The video says fill to hole and purge to correct level. (as service manual)
SO the question IS...DO I REMOVE 20ML AFTER REFITTING?????
Also the service manual states 360ml in the outer and i have been told 320ml!
Going to strip tomorrow now after making a 36mm cap tool and see what happens but probably go with standard and maybe remove the 20ml through the air bleed hole if i dont get full travel, as for the out i think 360ml 1st also and removed if needed. Also i will be fittin 5W oil.
I will follow up with results should anyone need but im still up for advice regarding spring rates (big n small) and oil levels also!!
Cheers
Thanks for replies ive found a great youtube vid but now need to make a 36mm inner cap tool so i can get the gloop out, the outer oil wasnt as bad but still too thick and black!
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrafDhaHbKc
strip and
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGjUpxEMrT0
rebuild with a handy drilling tip!!
Ive read that the inner oil chamber carries 200ml too much oil (http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/MXAS-2013-HUSQVARNA-TC250-MOTOCROSS-TEST-THERE-IS-9569.aspx) and to drain through bleed hole!
The service manual states ...Fill the cartridge with the specified oil (196 cm3-196ml- 11,96 in3).
The video says fill to hole and purge to correct level. (as service manual)
SO the question IS...DO I REMOVE 20ML AFTER REFITTING?????
Also the service manual states 360ml in the outer and i have been told 320ml!
Going to strip tomorrow now after making a 36mm cap tool and see what happens but probably go with standard and maybe remove the 20ml through the air bleed hole if i dont get full travel, as for the out i think 360ml 1st also and removed if needed. Also i will be fittin 5W oil.
I will follow up with results should anyone need but im still up for advice regarding spring rates (big n small) and oil levels also!!
Cheers
Micfasto
Husqvarna
AA Class
I will post in this thread to keep the other one about spring rates clean.
The inner cartridge oil amount is fixed (after proper bleeding), the adding and removing is done to the oil in the outer cartridge.The bleed holes do link to the outer cartridge but it is not easy or practical to remove oil from the bleed holes and almost as hard to add it that way as well.
Race tech says .469kg springs (4.5N) that is high I would say .42kg would be good at 175lbs. And if .42 is to soft you could use one .42 and one stock spring to fine tune it.
The inner cartridge oil amount is fixed (after proper bleeding), the adding and removing is done to the oil in the outer cartridge.The bleed holes do link to the outer cartridge but it is not easy or practical to remove oil from the bleed holes and almost as hard to add it that way as well.
Race tech says .469kg springs (4.5N) that is high I would say .42kg would be good at 175lbs. And if .42 is to soft you could use one .42 and one stock spring to fine tune it.
Yeh it was MXA that says remove via air bleed hole as per link previous! It has a .46 as standard having risen from a .44 in 2012, ive found a used 2005 YZF250 pair in the UK and ive read theyre .44 so seems a good start. Also these variable http://www.mergeracing.com/store/in...f=00-036&sid=ryuu5n3qn835o2vxda9z2uogy2oo050w seem worth a try but trying to locate a seller in the UK
and heres a link regarding standard spring weight
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HUSQVARNA...65?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item35cfddce49
Connor
Husqvarna
AA Class
this all seems like the exact opposite to what I have found out with my '12 txc310. I weight around 160lbs in gear and found the front end was fine but the rear was too stiff. So we changed the rear spring to a softer on and kept the front springs (I also had everything revavled).
JustKiddin
Husqvarna
AA Class
dfeckel
Sorry, last post was getting a bit long and I neglected to mention that although I changed to 4.2N/mm and Merge Racing RRS in the cartridge, I still could not get right down to Vinduro's suggested front sag levels. But it was way closer than standard and gave me the riding setup I wanted. I did not think it worth going any lower on the springs.
The KYB forks are identical form to the 48mm KYB's that Yamaha and Kawasaki use in recent years (before air forks on the KX), but valving and spring weights change as manufacturer's see fit. And check spring lengths too because the Husky ones are at the lower end of the range available from spring suppliers.
STEVEL
On oil, I have never heard of any issues with too much in the cartridge. I thought the process required to fill and bleed them would take care of correct quantity. But with a closed cartridge on top, you cannot take oil out as easily (as on an open cartridge fork like the TE models). Although I have not done it, I have read it is better to put a bit less oil in the outer cartridge and add more through the air bleed hole if required. I am happy with my level which I think was 350ml (but I am traveling and don't have access to my records)
Last but not least, be careful just assuming one 5wt is the same as another 5wt. The viscosity ratings (in centistokes - cSt) and viscosity index are better measurements to compare products. I have had friends use different brands of the same weight and end up with different suspension characteristics. I found Amsoil Shock Therapy Light #5 to be good for me with less degradation as it got hotter. Just to confuse things, some of there published specs are mis-printed with Viscosity @ 40°C to be 5.7cSt. It should be 15.7cSt.
You can find different comparison on the web like this one http://transmoto.com.au/comparative-oil-weights-table/
Cheers.
Sorry, last post was getting a bit long and I neglected to mention that although I changed to 4.2N/mm and Merge Racing RRS in the cartridge, I still could not get right down to Vinduro's suggested front sag levels. But it was way closer than standard and gave me the riding setup I wanted. I did not think it worth going any lower on the springs.
The KYB forks are identical form to the 48mm KYB's that Yamaha and Kawasaki use in recent years (before air forks on the KX), but valving and spring weights change as manufacturer's see fit. And check spring lengths too because the Husky ones are at the lower end of the range available from spring suppliers.
STEVEL
On oil, I have never heard of any issues with too much in the cartridge. I thought the process required to fill and bleed them would take care of correct quantity. But with a closed cartridge on top, you cannot take oil out as easily (as on an open cartridge fork like the TE models). Although I have not done it, I have read it is better to put a bit less oil in the outer cartridge and add more through the air bleed hole if required. I am happy with my level which I think was 350ml (but I am traveling and don't have access to my records)
Last but not least, be careful just assuming one 5wt is the same as another 5wt. The viscosity ratings (in centistokes - cSt) and viscosity index are better measurements to compare products. I have had friends use different brands of the same weight and end up with different suspension characteristics. I found Amsoil Shock Therapy Light #5 to be good for me with less degradation as it got hotter. Just to confuse things, some of there published specs are mis-printed with Viscosity @ 40°C to be 5.7cSt. It should be 15.7cSt.
You can find different comparison on the web like this one http://transmoto.com.au/comparative-oil-weights-table/
Cheers.
UPDATE...I stripped and flushed the oil then added and bled using a method posted on another thread. I then fitted 325ml in the outer as the 4.6 springs are said to be too heavy and will fit 4.4 or 4.2 when i find a good 2nd hand pair.
I found on riding it today i need 2 clicks off of compression from standard and job done. The front sometimes skips so i may add a click or 2 on rebound but for now it rides ALOT better now i have got rid of the syrup that was in there!
I found on riding it today i need 2 clicks off of compression from standard and job done. The front sometimes skips so i may add a click or 2 on rebound but for now it rides ALOT better now i have got rid of the syrup that was in there!