2013 TE310r Electric start issues

[ct cr430]

Just because a battery has voltage does not mean it's good , if possible try a known good battery . I've seen relays that don't work until they have enough voltage to be happy but yet starter will spin when you jump the relay .

 

[DJ Easterby]

put a load on the battery. then let it rest. measure the voltage (use actual numbers here). if it's less than 12.6v, get another battery. if you're getting 12.79volts at the starter post (and the starter has a good ground) and it's not spinning, pull the starter assembly and do the test in the manual. however, there is the possibility that you're screwing these tests up because there seems to be some confusion.

jumping the relay takes the relay and any possible losses out of the equation; and it's easy. you can measure full voltage at a test point, but when there's a demand for lotsa amps: nada.

I didn't think you had a problem with the sprag.

Starting to think my starter is toast or jammed. Won't be able to look to take it out for a couple of days to verify.

Double checked the readings. Battery was 13.29v, battery lead at relay 13.29/28v, starter lead on relay 12.79v, starter 12.79/78v
This seems to show that the battery is reasonably strong. Have it on the tender to fully charge and see if it goes past 13.29/33v, minimal drop on short lead to relay, almost 0.5v drop across relay, then minimal drop on cable from relay to starter.

I checked the conductivity of a screw driver on my multi-meter before trying to jump across the relay. Starter did not make a sound when jumped at the relay.

If I can get the starter out, I will mount it in a vise and jump to a battery to see if it spins or what happens. When I take the starter out it might be fairly evident that is pooched.

Anyone have a spare starter that I can use or know where to get a good new/rebuilt one?

 

[DJ Easterby]

Ok, got some good news and bad news. Good news is that I am getting quicker at getting the starter removed, only about 1 hr (including shuffling stuff around in my small workshop to make room to work on the bike.

Took the starter off, looked inside at the gears through the starter opening, all looks good. Start spins nice and smoothly.

Bad news, clamped the started in soft jaw vice, connected the negative to the bolt holes and the positive to the lug, touched the other end of the cable to the battery and ...... nothing.

Starter must be totally fried again****************************************

Need to source new starter. Anyone know where I might get one. Had searched and found Slavens Racing, but they don't have one for the 2013 TE310.

Called local shop and I can get one here fairly quickly, but $350 CDN - ouch !!!

Will try Bill's Husky tomorrow.

Any other ideas???

thx
J

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Ok, got some good news and bad news. Good news is that I am getting quicker at getting the starter removed, only about 1 hr (including shuffling stuff around in my small workshop to make room to work on the bike.

Took the starter off, looked inside at the gears through the starter opening, all looks good. Start spins nice and smoothly.

Bad news, clamped the started in soft jaw vice, connected the negative to the bolt holes and the positive to the lug, touched the other end of the cable to the battery and ...... nothing.

Starter must be totally fried again

Need to source new starter. Anyone know where I might get one. Had searched and found Slavens Racing, but they don't have one for the 2013 TE310.

Called local shop and I can get one here fairly quickly, but $350 CDN - ouch !!!

Will try Bill's Husky tomorrow.

Any other ideas???

thx
J

someone in BC had theirs re-wound last fall at an electric motor shop- it was $200 IIRC. Nobody has been able to find a substitute motor AFAIK.

but check your brushes too. you might be able to fab something from another brush if they're worn (they're made of carbon/graphite; easy to shape). OTOH, if they're worn on a new motor- take a hard look at the commutator and bearings. btw, lotsa carbon dust- you might end up looking like a coal miner.

check your starter button & circuit, and relay too- because unless you were going nuts with the button, the starter should not have fried this fast.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

also- a button is nice, but this bike kickstarts very easy.

 

[DJ Easterby]

someone in BC had theirs re-wound last fall at an electric motor shop- it was $200 IIRC. Nobody has been able to find a substitute motor AFAIK.

but check your brushes too. you might be able to fab something from another brush if they're worn (they're made of carbon/graphite; easy to shape). OTOH, if they're worn on a new motor- take a hard look at the commutator and bearings. btw, lotsa carbon dust- you might end up looking like a coal miner.

check your starter button & circuit, and relay too- because unless you were going nuts with the button, the starter should not have fried this fast.

That was me that had it rewound, which is why I am so put off that I am in the same spot in such short order. I will try to see it I can take it to the company tomorrow and have them take a look at it to see what has happened.

Newly rebuilt starter, then valves set on decomp, was working for short period before starting to crap out then completely stop working. Maybe the actual starter was somehow faulty or ??? I will see what I can do with a new starter then go from there. I know two people with 2012 TE bikes (one 250 and one 310) both have starters that work faultlessly. From what I can tell it's the same starter 8000 A7059. Why is mine such a pain!!!

 

[Trenchcoat85]

....and my starter has been flawless on my 310 for 7000 miles. A bad battery tricked me for 3 weeks once.

The electrical starting system on the xlites is pretty fragile though, even compared to the big-blocks.

Don't be afraid to kickstart it.

 

[DJ Easterby]

TC - Dropped the starter off today at the place that rebuilt it. I didn't want to open up the starter as last time I did I totally messed up the what was left of the brushes trying to put it back together. (must be a bit of a trick to keep the brushes back while fitting the pieces back together, but even the starter guy said it is a bit of a pain.

He did a quick test, starter seems to have some sort of a dead spot. If the starter has sat for some time then connected to battery it will turn for about 1/2 second, then nothing and no further movement (still spins easy by hand). Let it sit for several minutes then the same will happen.

Hoping it is something simple with the brushes that messed up and he can fix tonight or tomorrow and I can ride this weekend. I should consider ordering a starter cover so I can ride the bike without the starter in place.

Funny coincidence, when dropping off the starter. The guy glances at if and says look like this other one on my shelf, and it was. Another Husky owner, had dropped of his starter from his TXC 310. Ended up talking to him, pretty much the same story and frustration as my bike. Got the bike with 20 hours on it, starter worked sometimes, then less and less and now, not at all. What could be so differentiating that one bike / starter will work for 7000 miles and others 400km or 20 hours.

PS. Not afraid to kickstart it, just much nicer to press a magic button and go.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

DJ- ask your electric motor guy if he recognizes the starter motor from another application.

 

[DJ Easterby]

Got a call from the starter shop. The issue is the commutator. Not exactly certain on what part of it failed. He said they parts used in the original build are not the best quality. Hopefully, what gets put back in are better quality. Will take about a week or so to get parts in, so the bike is out of service until the starter is fixed. Should look at getting a blank cover plate for times like this when the starter needs to be repaired.​

 

[DJ Easterby]

Got a call from the starter shop. The issue is the commutator. Not exactly certain on what part of it failed. He said they parts used in the original build are not the best quality. Hopefully, what gets put back in are better quality. Will take about a week or so to get parts in, so the bike is out of service until the starter is fixed. Should look at getting a blank cover plate for times like this when the starter needs to be repaired.

Well, the saga continues. Got word, while I was out of town that the commutator on the starter is shot, but the bad news is the rebuild shop is not able to source that part. Everything else on the starter appears to be in order except the commutator. I have posted in the classified ads for a wanted post if anyone has a starter they could part with. Even possibly a broken on, as long as the commutator is good.
Also emailed to Bill's Husky to see if they might have a line on the part.

After reading up on how a starter works and what the commutator does, it kind of makes sense that this is the issue. The starter would work at times but seem to not work at all at times. If the commutator was faulty it would be like trying to pedal a bike with the pedals always at 12:00 and 6:00 in the dead zones, same idea that the commutator changes the positive and negative charger so the motor keeps spinning when there is current.

Anyone???

 

[R_Little]

I may have a couple of old starters in my parts.

Let me look.

If I send you two maybe he can fix both and send one back to me?

 

[DJ Easterby]

Sure could try that will message you.

 

[benny_mech]

I'm racking my brain as to where I got them, but I managed to find drop in replacement motor brushes. It took a lot of Google Image searching, and then rolling the dice, but they do exist. The motor manufacturer is Mitsuba, and they say the motors are not rebuildable. I think the pros can get parts, but shmoes like myself cannot.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

I'm racking my brain as to where I got them, but I managed to find drop in replacement motor brushes. It took a lot of Google Image searching, and then rolling the dice, but they do exist. The motor manufacturer is Mitsuba, and they say the motors are not rebuildable. I think the pros can get parts, but shmoes like myself cannot.

Benny- do these look like them? they come in a 4-pack (and it might be a stock photo)


Rick's Motorsport Electric NH, USA

https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/

DJ, looks like they have rebuilt xlite starters for $176 USD

 

[DJ Easterby]

Benny- do these look like them? they come in a 4-pack (and it might be a stock photo)
View attachment 86804

Rick's Motorsport Electric NH, USA

https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/

DJ, looks like they have rebuilt xlite starters for $176 USD

View attachment 86803

TC
Great find. I did order up a new starter from the local shop, will end up costing more than the $176 US (to CDN conversion + shipping, taxes and duties). Hopefully it will be in soon.

Still waiting to hear back from the shop if he can source the commutator part. He can make/source brushes, no issues there.
That is why I was looking for someone that might have a starter to part with, that I could use as a backup or for parts to get my existing starter fixed.

Going through the issues I have has at least led me understand the starter system and the issues.

Of course there is the issue of the starter gears and decomp as well. Assuming that is working normally
Starter turns but not enough to start the bike - battery or starter brushes / winding

Starter turns then nothing - will not turn even out of bike with no load - could be brushes or winding or commutator to be replaced.
That is the case with mine. The brushes were good, winding good, but the commutator is toast so current applied to motor will not spin the motor past the dead spot.

R_Little - still might want to talk to you about your starter if you want to part with it.

BTW, was everyone unable to access cafehusky.com for the past couple of days???

 

[benny_mech]

The brushes look like these, but I didn't get them from Rick's. Not sure if that's the correct brush holder in the pic. I wasn't able to find one of those. The tab at the bottom of the pic needs to be soldered to the positive terminal sticking out of the starter body. I can post more pics if they'll help anyone. I ended up replacing the whole starter, and still have the old one in pieces on the workbench. Was toying with rewinding it myself, but I've got too many other projects right now.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

DJ- yeah, CH was down for about 30 hours.
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/keep-the-cafe-server-funded.88440/

I believe, but do not know, that a commutator has to be repaired during a re-wind. except maybe for cleaning or notching the insulation (traditionally mica if present) between them or turning them down for a smooth surface for the brushes to ride on.

The lower the battery voltage, the slower the starter turns.... but the higher the current. That generates more heat, which is bad for a starter motor. Drag from the gear train, clutch, thick viscous oil, etc will do the same thing. Hitting or holding down the button a lot will will also cause heat. The xlite's starter systems is not real robust- be gentle.

let us know about your new starter when it arrives if you could: make, model, cost, differences, new or old part number, etc

Benny: for sure- post the pictures.

good luck.

 

[benny_mech]

Yeah, I was going to true up the commutator on the lathe at work before doing the rewinding. Some people just take the glazing off with Scotch Brite or emery cloth. I can check the insulation with a continuity check between the contacts.

Here's a pic of my new starter when I got it. Part number didn't match up to anything I could find online, and there's no manufacturer info anywhere else on it. Like I said earlier though, I'm almost 100% sure it's made by Mitsuba, based on the info I found when hunting for the brushes.

 

[DJ Easterby]

Picked up the starter has the same number stencilled on it as was shown on another picture. The package showed from Japan.

Slight change of topic, what are folks thoughts on the Husaberg FE350?