2013 TE 449 (Redhead) Oil Level

[coleman1495]

Hello from Canada.

I recently purchased a 2013 Husky TE449. I have some questions regarding the oil level. The dealer told me that it was better to have the oil in the lower portion of the sight glass. They stated that having a higher oil level can cause it to cough oil up into the breather line and into the airbox.

I am sure that is old news for you guys. My question is how do you check the oil level? I have always checked the oil level on my previous bikes with the bike in a vertical position. I assumed this to be the proper way. The owners manual however states that the bike should be on its kickstand. I called the dealer and they stated that it should be vertical.

Also do you check the oil when its hot? I noticed that it expanded a considerable amount when it warmed up. This could maybe cause enough expansion to cause the high oil level problem described above.

Anyways exactly how much oil do you guys add?

 

[gsxrbee]

Hi Coleman!

To check the oil level, the bike should be always vertical; no kickstand!!!

If the engine is warm, you should see the oil level sligthly over the maximun mark of the visor. If the engine is cold, the oil level should be 1/3 of the visor. A little over the minimun oil mark.

Enjoy!

 

[gillies]

Okay... I'm opening myself to some criticism here, but what I do has worked for me over many years/miles with bikes, cars, pickups and semis. I never look at that darn sight glass. Why? The view fluctuates with temp, bike position and time after engine shut down. To me, it's a crappy way to check levels.

My OEM Husky manual says the bike needs 1150cc of oil. So that's what it gets. I do oil changes frequently, and every time this is done I change the filter and add a measured 1150cc. Once added, I never give it a second thought. The only time I'd be concerned about levels between changes is if the bike began to burn or leak oil in prodigious amounts. I've also never experienced the oft mentioned oil puke into the air box. A Ratio-Rite or similar is your friend.

YMMV

 

[coleman1495]

Just out of curiosity, the 2011 OEM manual says 1l (0.2642us gal) of oil under the oil change capacity section. Where did you read the 1150mL? I keep hearing that number and i have not found it.

Okay... I'm opening myself to some criticism here, but what I do has worked for me over many years/miles with bikes, cars, pickups and semis. I never look at that darn sight glass. Why? The view fluctuates with temp, bike position and time after engine shut down. To me, it's a crappy way to check levels.

My OEM Husky manual says the bike needs 1150cc of oil. So that's what it gets. I do oil changes frequently, and every time this is done I change the filter and add a measured 1150cc. Once added, I never give it a second thought. The only time I'd be concerned about levels between changes is if the bike began to burn or leak oil in prodigious amounts. I've also never experienced the oft mentioned oil puke into the air box. A Ratio-Rite or similar is your friend.

YMMV

 

[huskylove]

I have a 2014 511. I run a toxic motor breather tank, with zip to valve cover breather.

I fill it up on the kickstand until oil comes out the fill.

Reason being is all the discussion on oil starving and issues like that. The higher oil level quiets the clutch significantly, and any excess puked out is recirculated via the breather. The extra oil does not sit in the crank like a wet sump it stays in the gearbox, clutch, breather etc. So far so good.

 

[Teambowles]

I believe cc's and ml's are the same. After I drain my oil I too don't worry about the sight glass I add 1150 cc's of Mobil 1 0w40 and forget about it. Don't get any in air box and it always shows sight glass full of oil after bike has been warmed up or ridden. I guess correct way of checking oil would be to start bike and get it nice and warm, turn it off and wait a few minutes so oil can drain back down, hold bike vertical and oil level should be at maximum mark or a little above. I use a measuring cup that way i know exactly how much oil is in there. Happy riding

 

[James Patton]

Manual says side stand, so not always vertical. I have zip-tys breather mod so I fill mine full, 1100/1200 cc's.
When it was stock, 1 qt., of 0/40 mobile one 946cc's seemed ok, a little in the air box if it was ridden pinned
Alot. If you put 1150 in stock, it will probably pump it into your airbox.

 

[Tinken]

On a normal engine, the amount of oil that may be added should not be increased beyond manufacture recommendations due to a multitude of detrimental things which could happen. On the Kymco engine, the crankshaft area is separated from the oil storage, hence a dry sump and the transmission area is capable of holding extra oil. Obviously for legal issues, I cannot recommend more than 1150ml/cc of oil to your engine, though I run my own differently (1300cc).

The original BMW G450X engine, designed by BMW and manufactured by Kymco was 449cc and delivered 19hp on low setting and 40hp on high. With all of it's quirkiness and backwards rotation, it's actually a magnificent little engine. It was originally designed to run 1150ml of 5W40 BMW brand oil. It also had this huge cooling system attached to it.

But it didn't sell well, it was underpowered and just too different. So BMW boosted it's power to 30hp low and 52hp in high mode. And it still didn't do well in sales. So after acquiring Husqvarna, BMW figuratively shoved the motorcycle down their throats and ordered them to "fix it / sell it". I think Husky did a great job, except they should have built a breather bottle into the frame and ran the breather out of the valve cover like they do on all their other newer motorcycles.

Most everyone wants a little more out of their investment, a power up plug, better exhaust, added fuel or timing increases, it adds value and makes owners feel better about their purchase. But when you add more on one end, if you don't compensate for the addition through cooling or mechanical durability, there will be failure. The bikes run hot, they are putting out much more hp than was ever designed for and running 30% less cooling. Oil is a major coolant in the Kymco 449 and in the past was immensely overlooked. If your motorcycle was spitting coolant out and the manufacture told you to just run less coolant, would that make sense to you?

The torque limiter, the limited slip differential for the Kymco engine. It's a good thing and it keeps us from breaking. But adding more than double the load and without proper cooling, causes it to fail. There is no direct oil cooling for the device, only oil level and splashing makes contact with cool oil. The crankshaft compartment is another oiling hurdle. Modifications have been made to the engine in this area by Kymco, but there just isn't enough flow. Running the thinner oils really increases the survival of these components in this area.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/ztr-oil-recirculation-system.39308/

 

[Huskynoobee]

That about sums it up^^^^

 

[coleman1495]

Okay so after reading these posts and doing a little experimentation I have come to the following conclusion:


1. Throw the owners manual out into the friggin bushes.
2. Put your husky on a shop stand or block it up so its vertical.
3. The oil level cold should/ may be low in the sight glass.
4. After being warmed up it should fill the sight glass.
5. The amount of oil to add after an oil change is 1000-1150ml.
6. Keep an eye on the air filter box to make sure she don't cough it up.
7. If you are more hardcore and/or have a supped up bike order a breather tank mod from ZipTy racing.

 

[Teambowles]

Okay so after reading these posts and doing a little experimentation I have come to the following conclusion:


1. Throw the owners manual out into the friggin bushes.
2. Put your husky on a shop stand or block it up so its vertical.
3. The oil level cold should/ may be low in the sight glass.
4. After being warmed up it should fill the sight glass.
5. The amount of oil to add after an oil change is 1000-1150ml.
6. Keep an eye on the air filter box to make sure she don't cough it up.
7. If you are more hardcore and/or have a supped up bike order a breather tank mod from ZipTy racing.

Yup sounds about right...might want to keep the owners manual though...

 

[Tinken]

The breather vent/tank should go on the bike whether it is modified or not. The oem breather vent just doesn't work properly after they made it into a torque limiter.

 

[N4544D]

The torque limiter appears to be the achilles heel of this engine. Run 1150cc of oil as the engine was designed to use and at the very least relocate the breather from crankcase to valve cover ($40 through zip ty); add the tank if you want extra protection. The intent of this is to protect that torque limiter.

I add 1150cc of oil at every oil change, so added to whatever remains in the engine puts my oil level at the very top of the sight glass while cold and upright (off side stand). Tip: after an oil change you can only fit about 1,000cc while on the sidestand so fire it up for 30 sec, turn it off and then continue to fill. 1150cc works out to be right at the oil fill cap threads so if you overfill it, it will just dribble out. And oh yeah, 300 mile oil changes is the general consensus.

 

[gillies]

The torque limiter appears to be the achilles heel of this engine.

Not to bust your chops on this claim, as you qualify your statement with the word "seems", but I've got to ask from where this information originates and can anyone provide statistical evidence of it?

Engines fail, no matter the make or type. Race engines fail regularly - how else to push for peak performance? Are all the mods proposed here to compensate for a truly deficient engine, or are they solutions to challenges some may or may not have?

To the OP: Measure out 1150cc (ml) oil at oil/filter change and you are covered.

 

[Laurence]

what is the 'torque limiter'? I've got a 2012 TE511, wouldn't know if my bike has one

 

[Laurence]

never mind, I read tinkens explanation above.

 

[Tinken]

Hmm... The original Kymco engine did not have a torque limiter. When Husqvarna modified the engine from a 5 speed to a 6 speed, they had to make the gears 22% narrower to make room for a 6th speed. This weakened the transmission and they were breaking gears. Wolfgang decided to add a limited slip clutch to the crossover gear as an afterthought. It fixed one problem and created another two. It ruined the breather vent and the thing flies apart when it wears out. The SMR's tend to wear them out faster than the trail riders, but I have sold them to both. It is a weak point on the engine.

 

[gillies]

Hmm... The original Kymco engine did not have a torque limiter. When Husqvarna modified the engine from a 5 speed to a 6 speed, they had to make the gears 22% narrower to make room for a 6th speed. This weakened the transmission and they were breaking gears. Wolfgang decided to add a limited slip clutch to the crossover gear as an afterthought. It fixed one problem and created another two. It ruined the breather vent and the thing flies apart when it wears out. The SMR's tend to wear them out faster than the trail riders, but I have sold them to both. It is a weak point on the engine.

As a vendor who races, services and develops modifications for this product line, there should be no question that you have addressed a variety of issues your team and customers have encountered. I do not question the quality of the modifications you propose and provide. I do, however, wonder if some mods are as necessary as expressed for the typical owner. This thread: http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/highest-mileage-te-smr-449-or-511.31096/ would lead me to believe this bike is very capable of long, trouble-free service. So, while some owners do experience issues, many others do not, which makes me question just how dire the deficiencies of this engine are in general.

 

[Tinken]

I understand what you are asking, but it is a very difficult question for me to answer. The fact is that many people will not notice a failure until right at the end. Its usually the racers who notice the slight slip in the corners or upon acceleration. Some one like Radar who keeps a relatively stock engine would see a longer life, but even at 8000 miles, I guarentee I can test it on the fixture to be under 150 ftlbs. While Caiman and Tom both destroyed theirs in very little time. Kelly has gotten lots of good miles out of his, but has always ran lots of thinner oil (10W30) which is key to it's survival. When we raced the 449, we would burn them up every race and have to replace them. They are designed for 40hp, a race map1 te449. I have never sold a TL to date to anyone with my oil system and my TL on my race modded bike feels really solid.

 

[Motosportz]

I believe what is posted here but there seems to be a lack of TL failure posts. I have to wonder for the average rider how many are having this issue. ZipTy sees a lot of them but they are a race shop with fast clients running open dez pinned for hours. Just trying to get a feel for actually every day riders with TL failures. Going to start a poll to get a feel for it out of curiosity.