2012 TE 250 / 310 fuel injection issues

[jimbee]

I agree with the comment the motor will never be lug a lugger. However from my perspective the motor can be made quite well. Maybe its just the way I ride I dont know. Im not sure what you guys mean my covering the cluth unless its to hold your hand over it if you need to do a quick pull. I sometimes have to do that but never in 1st gear. Its always in the super tight sections while im in 2nd. Buying the 12 port injector and the ECU may not solve the problems without having some sort of fuel injection tuner like the JD or PC.

Ive been tuning mine with the JD tuner over a few rides now and have to say im quite pleased with the way it runs from off idle and all the way up, no glitchyness and never stalls. I ONLY ride single track, some flowing and some very tight. Once again not a tractor but power comes on well at above 3000 RPM or so.

Thanks Jason that's what I wanted to hear and provides the motivation to sort this out!

Anyway with that said Ill give my settings.
11' TE 250, TPS 101.5, CO1 102 CO2 103 CO3 103, 12/50 sprocket gearing, Kawasaki 10 port fuel injector, JD tuner(not sure of my settings, orange and red around 2 I think blue/green & green almost all the way lean 1ish) MY JD settings are extremly lean because of the injector. I can find out what they are if anyone is interested. Ive been tuning by the seat of my pants and the SA color. Even when it seemed to run good the SA was overly sooted and almost plugging. Now as of my last ride it looks normal and runs better than ever with the these JD settings. Im also running my stock exhaust.

I don't know what the different CO numbers actually refer to in terms of what they do (i.e. do they each refer to different throttle positions?), but it looks like you are richening up your mix with iBeat (bigger CO numbers) only to then lean out your mix using the JD tuner. Was this on purpose? After speaking to James at JD, he said that when they do their tuning they use iBeat to set all the CO settings to 100 and then use their tuner to play with the mix. That was the direction I was going to head this weekend with a trip to the dealer, but I just thought I would ask if you had a different idea?

Also, I have some more general questions to do with the TPS. How does this work and what are the things to be aware of? Do you just use iBeat to reset the TPS so as to calibrate the voltage to the throttle closed postion, or is there more to it? Do you trick it by increasing or decreasing the setting? Does the idle speed screw or throttle stop lift the throttle and interfere with the TPS voltage reading? There is a thread on here about using iBeat to play with the TPS to get rid of the on/off "light switch" symptoms. It just seems to be a variable that some people discuss playing with but I don't really understand how to incorporate it into tuning the bike?

Thank you all for the help, it is much appreciated! [/quote][/quote]

 

[Bobby]

Also, I have some more general questions to do with the TPS. How does this work and what are the things to be aware of? Do you just use iBeat to reset the TPS so as to calibrate the voltage to the throttle closed postion, or is there more to it? Do you trick it by increasing or decreasing the setting? Does the idle speed screw or throttle stop lift the throttle and interfere with the TPS voltage reading? There is a thread on here about using iBeat to play with the TPS to get rid of the on/off "light switch" symptoms. It just seems to be a variable that some people discuss playing with but I don't really understand how to incorporate it into tuning the bike?

Thank you all for the help, it is much appreciated!

[/quote][/quote]

That's it in a nutshell. When it's set at the factory it's set with the given cable tension (hopefully lack thereof actually) and everything is brand new such as throttle stop, butterfly and housing along with the TPS. So many times within the first few miles of operation and letting the throttle close by spring without any assistance from your hand, it's possible to get the whole throttle assembly seated. However some bikes just like to get settled in on their own timeline, therefore 15 minutes with an Ibeat tuner after about 250 miles or 5-10 hours on the bike will allow for a true TPS reading and zero out so that the mapping in the ECU will properly correllate to the butterfly openning via the TPS reading.

Other systems such as the Kehein have a self learning adaptive for this, therefore if it doesn't happen automatically throughout the course of break-in, a simple disconnect of power will force the adaptives to zero out without the aid of a computer, however it's typically easier to force the adaptives to reset if a proper service computer is available for the new 449/511 bikes or any Kehein equipped current generation machine.

 

[jimbee]

Thank you Bobby for the explanation

 

[R_Little]

Bobby,

What TPS is your bike set to?

Mine was 102.4 @ 975mv and is now 101.4 @ 1016mv.

Thanks

Really Donovan? Wish we had talked about this in further detail. My girlfriend has a 2011 TE250 with 8 port injector and '11 ECU and manages to ride it all over off road in technical terrain with the 50tooth rear sprocket only and fully powered up, rarely a stall. However without knowing what the TPS value on your bike is right now by reading it and setting it accordingly should it be different from the when it was set-up at initial assembly. My own bike changed TPS base reading two times after initial set-up while others never need attention after they come out of the crate. I can send out my laptop to you on Tuesday to determine TPS and walk you though the CO settings once you have laptop in hand. The other '12 TE250 that was prepped same day as yours had a 50 tooth sprocket installed and is running around on trails with a very novice rider and no issues to date.

Also as mentioned above the TE250 is NOT a TTR with stupid dump the clutch low-end torque, manipulating the clutch will be required at mid to low RPM's as with every liquid cooled 250 I have ever ridden and very NOT like a CRF230 or any TTR. However I'll take a TE250 over TTR/CRF anyday for suspension alone let alone 3x's the potential HP.

As for #4, I never said the G2 Ergo throttle tube would fix your problem,..........I said it was my issue on my bike as the aggressive cable pull cam I initially installed was too aggressive for technical trail riding vs open MX/SX type riding on my TXC 310. Once I installed the intermediate cable pull cam, it was like buttah!

I know it's frustrating, but I assure you getting past the break-in bugs will be more then worth while once there are some miles on it and efi is sorted out.

 

[Phoenix]

Here is a thread with a lot of info about TPS and a nice video about doing the TPS mod. Some have reported great improvements by doing this.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/my-diy-efi-tweak.3885/page-4#post-169777

 

[boisedave]

The only thing I have to add is that this sort of thing is what has kept me off a Husky. I love the brand and I really have enjoyed the new Husky's that I've ridden, but I am really leery of spending $7k + for a bike and then having to spend $1000 just to get it to run "properly." I only have so many weekends I can go riding and don't have the inclination to sort out these issues -- I would much rather be riding. IF I had a couple of bikes, then it wouldn't matter so much, but I don't. Enough said and I think things are improving.

 

[Runner]

Is the low speed stumble a problem on every 2010-2012 250/310, or are some bikes immune?

 

[Ryan]

I'm not sure what all the differencs are between the TE and TXC, but I can tell you my 2012 310 TXC has no fuel injection or power issues. Have about 80 miles on bike with zero flame-outs or bogs. I just came off 2011 KTM 300 and rode 450s for the previous 10 years and haven't changed the way I ride, usually a gear high. Sure the bottom end power is off compared to the bigger bikes but I'm finding that may be a good thing. I hope you guys get yours lined out because these bikes are so much fun to ride.

 

[jimbee]

Here is a thread with a lot of info about TPS and a nice video about doing the TPS mod. Some have reported great improvements by doing this.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/my-diy-efi-tweak.3885/page-4#post-169777

Thank you Phoenix - read the whole thing and it was very helplful and educational (video helped!). Big props and beers for bbcmat.

It seems like setting the TPS for 100.2-4 at WOT works well for the non x-lite motors, but there hasn't been much posted here on what TPS setting works for the x-lite motors? Has anyone taken bbcat's methodical approach to coming up with a good setting for our new smaller bikes?

Perhaps it makes more sense to continue this in R_Little's thread "2010 Te250 TPS?" (http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/2010-te250-tps.21399/) - there R_Little posted that he has found 101.2 works for him, and JasonfromMN ended up at 101.5. It would be great to hear more about this from others as well.

This forum has such a wealth of info and it has been great to learn so much from those that have invested so much time, especially because it is a multi hour round trip to the dealer to plug into the iBeat so it would be great not to have to do it over and over to sort this out!

 

[Sparked]

@runner

I can only speak for my bike, but I have this stumble. I don't notice it at all on road or on easy trails. The only time I notice it is when getting stuck on a hill or in a rock pile.

The PCV is leaning out the bike a lot, which agrees with the way the bike feels- like a carbureted bike with a flooded bowl.

 

[swamp]

here is a little example of what the bike is doing.
it does the same thing in the woods.
like when there is a large fallen tree and you need to blip the throttle to get over it or any other low speed obstacle that requires quick throttle response.

i know you are going to try to make me out to be a noob or novice rider (which im not). its not me. its the bike.
for the record this is the only time ive ever complained about any motorcycle that ive ever owned.
simply because the bike has become such a disappointment.

and yes if you buy one of these you will have to drop money into it to get it to run decently (which im doing).

i was told the bike had 12 port fuel injection (then i find out it doesnt.. now i have to pay for it.)

 

[mnb]

have you tried bumping the idle speed up a tad? What does it idle at? My '11 TE310 did that before I bumped the idle up to about 2k (which is slightly above factory spec). Powered up, but still corked.

 

[swamp]

my idle speed

more examples of the throttle response on 2012 TE 250

 

[Phoenix]

Thank you Phoenix - read the whole thing and it was very helplful and educational (video helped!). Big props and beers for bbcmat.

It seems like setting the TPS for 100.2-4 at WOT works well for the non x-lite motors, but there hasn't been much posted here on what TPS setting works for the x-lite motors? Has anyone taken bbcat's methodical approach to coming up with a good setting for our new smaller bikes?

Perhaps it makes more sense to continue this in R_Little's thread "2010 Te250 TPS?" (http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/2010-te250-tps.21399/) - there R_Little posted that he has found 101.2 works for him, and JasonfromMN ended up at 101.5. It would be great to hear more about this from others as well.

This forum has such a wealth of info and it has been great to learn so much from those that have invested so much time, especially because it is a multi hour round trip to the dealer to plug into the iBeat so it would be great not to have to do it over and over to sort this out!

Great find there. I may try the 101.5ish range settings from there and see if they improve the low end bog on my bike. Though I've gotten used to it at this point, its still there. Thank you for posting the link jimbee.

 

[Bobby]

here is a little example of what the bike is doing.
it does the same thing in the woods.
like when there is a large fallen tree and you need to blip the throttle to get over it or any other low speed obstacle that requires quick throttle response.

The flame out can be fixed with some tuning, I'm postive of it and no extra money need be spent, I've seen it with my own eyes. However the Xlites even in tip top performance (TXC310 with aftermarket race system, etc) will still need a pull of the clutch while your spinning up RPM's and a modulated dump to loft a front wheel at a tree or obstacle in my experiences, these aren't big bores or low rpm stump pullers. Unlike my G450X which will pop over anything with a blip of the throttle alone, the XLite will need some aggressive clutch work similar to riding two stroke to manipulate the power delivery.

Once the new ECU is installed, the Ibeat will be necessary to set the TPS anyhow, so do not expect it to cure anything with plug and play of ECU and injector unfortunately.

We're riding Windrock/Coal creek this weekend if you're up for a road trip and a tuning 101 session! drinks on me

 

[JasonfromMN]

Swamp, its not you, its your bike. 100%. Thats Exactly how mine ran with a tight new engine, while powered up and just after I "derestricted"(removed CAT in exhaust and removed air filter restrictor) Ran TERRIBLE off idle & died constantly- so bad I re-resrticted for it for the next ride! This can be tuned out**************************************** Also keep in mind it is partially because of the new tight engine.

[/quote]

That's it in a nutshell. When it's set at the factory it's set with the given cable tension (hopefully lack thereof actually) and everything is brand new such as throttle stop, butterfly and housing along with the TPS [/quote]

That must be why some respond better with certain TPS adjustments than others then.

Jimbee, i didnt re read the thread Pheonix linked but just wanted to say the TPS adjustment is about changing where the throttle rests on the hard stop and recalibrating it with ibeat. My CO settings are where I found my bike to run best(maybe slightly on the lean side on mid and top anyway) before I installed the JD or Kawi injector. After I got them I was too anxious and really didnt think about resetting the COs to the default 100. My Jd settings are a resault of that and working with the new injector. Im now so lean with the JD settings(and so close to what i think absolute perfect will be with this bike anyway) i will actually have to go back in and start setting my COs lower if i want leaner. I dont think at this point i can make it run better but now am working on maintaining what I have and hoping to squeeze out a little better fuel milege. The last ride i did just before my current JD settings I did notice I ran out of fuel earlier than I normally would have and that is also when the SA looked like it was staring to plug a little. My only gripe left if I had one is; idle. WHen it idles its a little rumbly. Hard to explain but rumbly is all i got. Almost like a misfire if it were an 8 cylinder. But as soon at the throttle gets twisted its normal and im sure another time or two out ill have that delt with too. Could probably use a spark plug change now too.

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

here is a little example of what the bike is doing.
it does the same thing in the woods.

Yea- it shouldn't do that. Different beast altogether- but my 09TE450 doesn't do that (closest it came to doing that was when my coil was not secured and grounded properly). If it were me and somewhat curious and optimistic, I'd think it would benefit from being hooked up to Ibeat- tweak settings, but I'd also check the bike over entirely- such as the spark plug, spark plug cap to coil, and all coil connections, I'd check plug connectors as well. Why do I think electrical a little? cause as the vibes go up- its like there's a connection being undone. (like the way my bike's coil connection got worse with rpms).

How long have you had this bike since it was purchased? miles?

OH, just to verify when the bike was idling up there at 2250 rpms was the idle bypass pulled out? (make sure that is not pulled out while ridden- it will throw things off) Just curious why it is that high. How many turns out is the Air bypass screw? does it start up different cold than hot? does it seam rich/ lean when running?

I really wonder what your tps is adjusted to and how far it is off? I'd take it to BMW Atlanta and get it sorted.

Sorry for the questions- I probably don't have the answer- but someone might... good luck

 

[jimbee]

Apologies for a dumb question, but where is the spark arrester on a 2011 TE250?

Mine was a demo bike and all I received was a box of parts. In the box was what the dealer called a “spark arrester”, but to me just looks like the short quite insert – it is a short hollow stainless steel tube with a few holes drilled in the end that is held into the end of the pipe with a snap ring.

Elsewhere on here I’ve seen pictures of a screen type spark arrestor. Is it hidden inside between the mid pipe and silencer or is it supposed to go where the quite insert goes but I maybe just didn’t get it?

Reason I’m asking is getting ready to work on FI and some have said that the spark arrester affects the tuning - I would like to tune with it installed.

TGIF, JB

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

JB: it goes in place of the insert you now have on the end of the exhaust held by the circlip.
I think theres a pic of it on this page: http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/spark-arrestor.1776/#post-29461

 

[jimbee]

Thanks much. As I figured, just wanted to check.