2011 TE310 wont hold charge. Possible short?

[Judgie]

My 2011 TE310 is having an electrical problem of sorts. A few months back about 10k in to a ride the bike died. Luckily, one of the riders I was with didn't require a battery for the bike to run (unlike the TE) so inseappednit out and continued my ride. After another 80km or so it dies again, this time I had to push the bike and gets tow out.

Back at the house we started by taking off the panels and looking for loose connections. Just by chance, I rubbed up against the charging system fuse while the key was in the ignition and someone I was with noticed the back brake light flicker. Voila, problem found I thought. I pulled it all apart, cleaned, greased etc etc and the problem seemed to vanish. At the time I had determined that it was a bad contact which made sense since one of the symptoms was that my speedo would stay off even though the key was fully engaged but now with with the cleaning it just seemed to work as intended.

On the next ride, same problem. So I bush fixed it with a small wedge under the fuse which seemed to work again. Again thought that the contact was bad, maybe the fuse pins were haut making good contact (ie: something is bent the wrong way). So again when I got home I pulled it all apart, cleaned and gave the receptacle some tweaking by deforming the contact points slightly, making the prongs on the fuse have a more solid contact.

Again no luck. The very next ride the battery has been drained only 20 minutes in and I'm at a loss.

Any tips for trouble shooting?

Thanks

 

[Trenchcoat85]

sounds like your charging system isn't working: what's the voltage when the bikes has been running (and the battery has been previously charged up)? you wanna see a number like 14.2v (13.8v is marginal but acceptable). That's why it ran for 80km before dying on a fresh battery probably.

you have other problems too (your short, perhaps). get the charging system going first, then we'll hunt'em down. (BTW, look for very tiny breaks or burns in the wiring insulation caused by rubbing & then shorting).

 

[268fords]

How about the wiring going to the stator?

 

[R_Little]

I'm with TrenchCoat.

Charge the battery and put a volt meter on the bat wile it is running.

 

[MotoXImage]

I had a very similar problem. I was riding for about 30 minutes and the bike started acting strange so I turned around and kept riding until it quickly sputtered out. I checked the fuses for a bad connection. Then while I was wiggling wires on the left side I noticed something changed in my dash. Previously the low fuel light was coming on with a full tank, the horn would be weak or not work at all and the dash lights flickered and were dim. Anyhow, it turned out to be something loose in this electrical switch/plug. Even though it felt tight it must not have been seating properly. The remedy was to put a zip ty around it very tight. Now it charges perfect, the dash lights stay on and the fuel light isn't giving a false report. Take a look and try this. Just remove the left side panel.

 

[MotoXImage]

I'm with TrenchCoat.

Charge the battery and put a volt meter on the bat wile it is running.

When I connected my volt meter to the battery it would be erratic while idling, when revved the voltage would drop. After the zip ty fix it is steady when idle and increases volts when revved .

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Judgie- what did you do to fix your problem? Let us know.

 

[Judgie]

I ended up with 2 issues that needed addressing in order to fix the problems I'd been having, aka having really terrible rides that ended in me stealing a buddies battery and having to push the bike home.

When I was trouble shooting the components I found that my main stator harness was fried. All 3 connectors were burned and not in contact, which explained why my battery was continually dying. At this point I thought I had it solved but soon found that the symptoms continued.

My stator output was good, R/R values was within range. So I started working through the charging system and found the same issue that MotoXImagew had. The terminal had a bad connection and when moved, would cause the dash to reset and flash on and off. I ended up using a mini screwdriver and bending the leads to get a better contact. Seems to hold good and I've done 4 solid rides .

I still have a short which I only noticed on my last ride, which was a day long ride in the rain. Now my dash stays lit, even after the key is removed but only until the bike dries out. I plan on tearing the bike down over the winter and checking each connection. Somehow water is getting in someplace, causing the short.

I am thinking that it might be related the dialectic grease I used on the bike when I got it. I had put some on every connector before I even rode it. Now with the stator wires gone and the short, I'm thinking it's worth exploring

 

[MotoXImage]

Judgie, glad that bending the leads worked for you. I tried that but it wasn't getting consistent contact, that's why I resorted to the zip ty.

 

[Judgie]

MotoXImage - I'm going to go back and use your trick too. Better safe than sorry

 

[MotoXImage]

MotoXImage - I'm going to go back and use your trick too. Better safe than sorry

Believe me, that little connector does some strange things when it's not happy. At least you'll rule that area out. BTW, I pulled that zip ty very tight with pliers to get maximum compression on it.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Thanks for the report back- that'll help future readers.

I can not think of any problem you could have caused using dielectric grease. Nothing. Or any other grease either- 'cept for anti-sieze.

Water is really over-rated for causing shorts on low voltage circuits (the coil is high voltage), with the exception of low current circuits (found in electronics like the ecu, speedo). the big problem with water is corrosion; salt water is the worst.

If you are having problems with the connectors on your starter relay like MXI, inspect the contacts for pits, burns, and carbon (wire side too) and possibly replace it. I don't know why you guys are have issues with the strain of the wires, but I've heard of it in another case here. The mechanical strength should be totally adequate- but seemly it isn't. look for excessive physical loads on the harness maybe (and fix that cause?).

I'd take a hard look at your entire wiring system actually. I'd be concerned with all 3 phases of the A/C wires being burnt/melted too.

again, thanx for the final report.

 

[MotoXImage]

Thanks for the report back- that'll help future readers.

I can not think of any problem you could have caused using dielectric grease. Nothing. Or any other grease either- 'cept for anti-sieze.

Water is really over-rated for causing shorts on low voltage circuits (the coil is high voltage), with the exception of low current circuits (found in electronics like the ecu, speedo). the big problem with water is corrosion; salt water is the worst.

If you are having problems with the connectors on your starter relay like MXI, inspect the contacts for pits, burns, and carbon (wire side too) and possibly replace it. I don't know why you guys are have issues with the strain of the wires, but I've heard of it in another case here. The mechanical strength should be totally adequate- but seemly it isn't. look for excessive physical loads on the harness maybe (and fix that cause?).

I'd take a hard look at your entire wiring system actually. I'd be concerned with all 3 phases of the A/C wires being burnt/melted too.

again, thanx for the final report.

I initially applied dielectric grease and thought the same thing that Judgie did. I've was wary of using it because I wasn't sure if it was part of the problem. As far as I can tell, none of the issues I had can be traced to it. Like Judgie, I tweeked the contacts to make sure they had a positve contact. They did. My theory is that the female receptors wire connection (between the metal female pin and the plastic connector) is where the weak connection is. Forcing the female pin back into the wire by squishing the connection somehow fixes the electrical break. Thanks for your reply. I'll go back to using dielectric grease.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

...Like Judgie, I tweeked the contacts to make sure they had a positve contact. They did. My theory is that the female receptors wire connection (between the metal female pin and the plastic connector) is where the weak connection is. Forcing the female pin back into the wire by squishing the connection somehow fixes the electrical break. Thanks for your reply. I'll go back to using dielectric grease.

yes, that is accepted practice (the "tweeking"), but why are they loosening up in the first place is the big question. Maybe it's just a case of vibration. maybe.

Also, we're talking about spade or quick disconnect (.250") connectors on your starter relay- correct? not "pins" in a big multi-conductor connector like the ECU or the speedo. QDs are made to take some mechanical load, but not a lot. Pins: none. Your zip-tie takes most of the load off the connectors.

yeah, you can't go wrong with dielectric grease (or hell- vasoline even). [well... I guess it could reduce the ability of a connection to take a mechanical load. but hell, really that's a symptom of another problem: why is there a load on the harness or connector?]

 

[MotoXImage]

yes, that is accepted practice (the "tweeking"), but why are they loosing up in the first place is the big question. Maybe it's just a case of vibration. maybe.

Also, we're talking about spade or quick disconnect (.250") connectors on your starter relay- correct? not "pins" in a big multi-conductor connector like the ECU or the speedo. QDs are made to take some mechanical load, but not a lot. Pins: none. Your zip-ty takes most of the load off the connectors.

yeah, you can't go wrong with dielectric grease (or hell- vasoline even). [well... I guess it could reduce the ability of a connection to take a mechanical load. but hell, really that's a symptom of another problem: why is there a load on the harness or connector?]

I'm not sure what it is. If I remember correctly it's the part that clicks when you hit the starter. It is on one of my post above.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

I'm not sure what it is. If I remember correctly it's the part that clicks when you hit the starter. It is on one of my post above.

starter relay

 

[R_Little]

Thanks for the report back- that'll help future readers.

I can not think of any problem you could have caused using dielectric grease. Nothing. Or any other grease either- 'cept for anti-sieze.

Water is really over-rated for causing shorts on low voltage circuits (the coil is high voltage), with the exception of low current circuits (found in electronics like the ecu, speedo). the big problem with water is corrosion; salt water is the worst.

If you are having problems with the connectors on your starter relay like MXI, inspect the contacts for pits, burns, and carbon (wire side too) and possibly replace it. I don't know why you guys are have issues with the strain of the wires, but I've heard of it in another case here. The mechanical strength should be totally adequate- but seemly it isn't. look for excessive physical loads on the harness maybe (and fix that cause?).

I'd take a hard look at your entire wiring system actually. I'd be concerned with all 3 phases of the A/C wires being burnt/melted too.

again, thanx for the final report.

Trenchcoat, you are a real asset and know these bikes well.

Can I assume if wires are melting then the resistance in the circuit is WAAAY too high.

The wire harnesses an these bikes is very thin. The connectors also.

I dissemble and grease all the connections I can periodically and I still every year or so end up with a misfiring motor when the bike gets wet.

I have traced it I believe to the coil under the tank. Those grounds are critical and I have two coils separate by the mounting lug allowing water to enter the hi voltage wingdings.

This after 7 years of use on 2010 TE250.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Trenchcoat, you are a real asset and know these bikes well.

Can I assume if wires are melting then the resistance in the circuit is WAAAY too high.

The wire harnesses an these bikes is very thin. The connectors also.

I dissemble and grease all the connections I can periodically and I still every year or so end up with a misfiring motor when the bike gets wet.

I have traced it I believe to the coil under the tank. Those grounds are critical and I have two coils separate by the mounting lug allowing water to enter the hi voltage wingdings.

This after 7 years of use on 2010 TE250.

thanks- but really (besides electronics) all I've learned is from CH... and 48 years of riding. [also I kinda do weird shit sometimes. e.g. I just bought a used TC fuel pump that I'm measuring and doing experiments on- got it in the 'fridge right now measuring resistance of the fuel sensor. Divorced 2x's- No surprise, eh?]. I think we all have a obligation to pass on what we have learned.

OTOH- if I give bad advice, I like CH's ability to edit. I don't delete the advice, but I usually strike through it or add a sentence explaining what I said wrong, usually.

Can I assume if wires are melting then the resistance in the circuit is WAAAY too high.

actually no- usually just the opposite. Resistance is too low/current is too high- possibly a short somewhere. But heat is generated across a resistance- and if you have that resistance between a high-current draw, you'll get a local hot spot [this is what happens when connectors etc get corroded but still have lotsa current going through them and you see melting insulators and carbon marks around them]

2 coils! do you switch them when its starts running ragged? does it ever start running ragged when it's dry? (if so, it's probably a heat-failure, and not necessarily water. but water can get into hard-to-see heat cracks). Do you use the same spark plug lead & cap?

how about a new set of points & condensor? <jk> seriously though, maybe try bagging your coils-although once water is in, it's gonna stay in (put a couple of drain holes in the bottom maybe).

==========================
To tell you the truth... Cafe Husky is one of the most civil places on the internet. I've posted here more than anyplace else since I quit posting on the internet in 1989 (when the floodgates opened and the idiot-factor went through the roof). I've been a member since '10 IIRC, but really didn't post until I got my husky... right about the time there was the KTM inspired drop-off.

Lotsa people here are a huge assest: BillF (BMP) talked to me for the better part of an hour on the phone about my 310- which I'd bought from another vendor on his recommendation. George (Uptite), who I've never talked to, has been giving the greatest and most concise advice for decades (I'm referring to advrider here, also). The Australian contingent has great info (DM, et al) and so does/did his nemesis Tinken. [lotsa people I'm forgetting- Eric? used to be with husky-uk, ...you know what- as I remember 'em, I just gonna add names here ->] the guys on the ph at BMP Jon & Byron, Hall's, ZTR, Clay/7602, mods ruwfo & Joe Chod- keeping this place running when everybody else ran off, ....

 

[R_Little]

I found they were bad only when they got wet.
I located it by spraying water directly at the coil and the bike would begin missing again.
Spraying water elsewhere had no effect. Pretty Hi tech, no?

I replaced the old wire but kept the plug cap....problem solved for a year or two.
I tried removing the coil and cleaning it but that only worked once for a while.

I can see the plastic coil separating from the mounting lug and I figured that was it.

Maybe not?

Yes, Joe Chod is a Husky god!

 

[Trenchcoat85]

...I can see the plastic coil separating from the mounting lug and I figured that was it.

yeah, that pretty much sounds like it- a coil can get hot enough to have heat stress-cracks in it; if that doesn't break the secondary wiring (hi volts stuff), it can allow water in (which sounds like your case).

Another failure mode is to have an intermittent connection on the secondary. bike runs fine for a half hour, coil heats up- then it starts running ragged. let it cool and it runs fine. This isn't as big as a problem anymore.