2011 TC Crank failure

[Alvsey]

ok guys/girls, am new at the internet game so I hope I have done it right. I posted a reply yesterday in response to Newbie's Q about the recomended 70 hr crank replacement posted in April. Well, I can definately state that at 50.8 hrs on my hr mt, the crank shaft big end bearig failed completely, DOH. I have always maintained the bike at more frequent intervals than those as recomended and basically, I dont actually have the skill required to give my Husky a hard time on the track... Has anyone else had the unfortunate luck to be in the same situation. Always ran Motul 300v oil and changed filters and cleaned screens on a frequency rate as to be mothering the bike not just maintaining her.. Feedback please.

 

[Freaky]

Sounds very unlucky to have a big end go at 50hrs with the frequent oil changes you are doing with good oil, have you had the bike since new?

 

[ray_ray]

What is the engine size of the TC? 250?

 

[Alvsey]

What is the engine size of the TC? 250?

Sorry mate, 2011 TC 449, purchased brand new. rode a 310 the previous year but wanted a bit more of a hit for the Finke race, as it is pretty fast and open in sections. You can't change what has happened now, just have to finish stripping her down and start the rebuild process. Will do the piston at the same time also and replace the majority of the bearings in the bottom end as a fair amount of metal was caught in the screens/filter..... Lets hope I am one of a minority hey !!

 

[ray_ray]

Sorry mate, 2011 TC 449, purchased brand new. rode a 310 the previous year but wanted a bit more of a hit for the Finke race, as it is pretty fast and open in sections. You can't change what has happened now, just have to finish stripping her down and start the rebuild process. Will do the piston at the same time also and replace the majority of the bearings in the bottom end as a fair amount of metal was caught in the screens/filter..... Lets hope I am one of a minority hey !!

I saw you had a TC 449 in your profile but just wanted to verify this as no one to my knowledge has had any engine issues with these bikes on this site ...

 

[R_Little]

A big 4 stroke crank should last years unless your name is Villipoto or they call you Bubba.

 

[Alvsey]

A big 4 stroke crank should last years unless your name is Villipoto or they call you Bubba.[/quote,]
I'm with you mate and am slightly perplexed as too what has caused this to happen. The shop that sold me the bike have never to this day, had to strip down a bottom end on a 449, let alone have a failure . I am definately no Bubba or Villo at all and have only ever competed with an MA license twice in my life so far but, it appears as though I will be back again in 2013 as I dont like to not finish what I have started. No anamosity from me at all towards the shop or brand, thats just the way things go. I only posted on the cafe to see if anyone else has had any issues elsewhere and thankfully it appears to be not the case . There is no warranty on a MX bike at all, the shop is going to do the best deals it can for me on the spares required, which is all I can ask for in reality ****************************************

 

[Alvsey]

Just received a copy of a workshop manual, according to the manual on a TC 449, a crank should be replaced every 25 hrs. Go figure.....

 

[macwood]

we have got 3 tc 250 s 2010 and son races one and we just did a bigend bearing at 50 hours but caught it early. It just started to seize which pushes piston hard into exhaust side of bore and slight scuffed bore and piston worse. conrod kit piston and piston kit and we are away but this time put a pro x conrod kit and a wossner piston kit. We did all the right oil changes with fully synthetic oil API spec SM but was slightly thinner than rec 5W 40. the 50 hours was fairly hard racing with not much cruisie riding have changed to 15W 50 now on dealers rec.
macwood in Tas

 

[ray_ray]

we have got 3 tc 250 s 2010 and son races one and we just did a bigend bearing at 50 hours but caught it early. I just started to seize which pushes piston hard into exhaust side of bore and slight scuffed bore and piston worse. conrod kit piston and piston kit and we are away but this time put a pro x conrod kit and a wossner piston kit. We did all the right oil changes with fully synthetic oil API spec SM but was slightly thinner than rec 5W 40. the 50 hours was fairly hard racing with not much cruisie riding have changed to 15W 50 now on dealers rec.
macwood in Tas

Interesting ... What about the bore? Any work there?

Were you seeing excessive metal on the oil drain plug (at oil changes) before the bike started to seize up?

5W oil is recommended for these bike?

FYI : 5W oil (as far as I know), is used in cars to help them get better gas mileage .... It probably won't freeze till about -40 degrees but who rides a bike at that temp?

 

[macwood]

Hi ray no metal in oil or on screen, doesnt have a magnetic drain plug (i think they should) but what happened is the conrod started to wear and then it started to hammer the bearing rollers and then broke up the cage. There wasnt much wear on rollers or big end pin. Hoping pro x is better than the OEM. Piston scuffed up a bit and slight marks on bore but not needing any work.

Sticker on engine from new says motal 10w 40 our local dealer is fairly cluey and races one of the same bikes and he recommends the 15w 50 so we are going with it.


About the cars using 5w oil only thing I can think of is, they dont rev to 13000 rpm and arnt raced hard like a race TC 250 but i'm no expert ??

 

[ray_ray]

Hi ray no metal in oil or on screen, doesnt have a magnetic drain plug (i think they should) but what happened is the conrod started to wear and then it started to hammer the bearing rollers and then broke up the cage. There wasnt much wear on rollers or big end pin. Hoping pro x is better than the OEM. Piston scuffed up a bit and slight marks on bore but not needing any work.

Sticker on engine from new says motal 10w 40 our local dealer is fairly cluey and races one of the same bikes and he recommends the 15w 50 so we are going with it.

About the cars using 5w oil only thing I can think of is, they dont rev to 13000 rpm and arnt raced hard like a race TC 250 but i'm no expert ??

Sad story ... No magnet on the plug? Sad again ...

 

[banda]

No metal in the screens? Are you sure your oil pump is still working? I have never known a 450 to have completely clean screens. Have to echo a previous poster: MX bikes deserve new pistons every season, if not more frequently, and that's the time to check play in the crank.

It's the price we pay for 50hp.

 

[djdougiedoug]

What sort of warranty do you get on a TC449, is it worth discussing with Husqvarna?
I know it's a road bike but my SMR511 gets 2 years.
A bit disturbing for all new 449/511 owners (especially the modified ones), I was getting a bit smug/complacent not hearing of any failures at all.

 

[Alvsey]

Yep have spoken too my dealer, who in turn spoke to the waranty manager at Husky Australia, basically there is no waranty on a TC as is a race bike. In there opinion, had it been a fault of the manufacturers, the failure would have occurred earlier on in the hrs department and then maybe, they would have assisted me. As it stands though, I will be getting some assistance from R & D Husky with the best prices they can do for me.. The TC runs a slightly higher compression than the TE which in turn adds more stress to the bottom end...At the end of the day, I was in a race, going as hard as my ability allows me to go. The Finke Desert Race is always fast and extremely hard on the equipment. Sometimes these things just happen don't they ****************************************!! Its hard for Husqvarna as they dont know how I have maintained my bike from day one, which I understand. Either way, all I can do is fix the bike and start training again for next years race......The main reason, as stated previously for the initial email, was not to throw mud at Husky at all but, to find out if this is an isolated case or possibly something bigger. Thankfully for the rest of you guys out there with the 449 and 511's, it appears to be an isolated case ****************************************! When I rebuild the bike I am considering running a lower compression piston out of the TE to hopefully add some extra life to the engine, Havn't definately decided yet as I have to research weather that will affect the fuel injection etc etc.

 

[banda]

The service manual says pretty clearly that the piston and crank should be replaced every 25 hours for a TC, 70 for a TXC or TE. Note - this is a LONGER service interval than is recommended by any of the Japanese 450 MX manufacturers for their racing machines (as far as I have read).

MX bikes require a lot of service.

 

[Alvsey]

Yep I realise what your saying and can't argue. I have been aroung dirt bikes for quite a while now and have a multitude of mates who have and are riding at a national level here in OZ. These guys ride bikes that vary from all four Japanese brands KTM's AND Husabergs in competitions that vary from MX, Enduro and Desert Racing......All of these guys ride way harder than I could ever wish to emulate and none of them have ever had to replace a crank shaft after only 50 hrs of riding on a modern day 450.. Never **************************************** All manufacturers recomend replacement at an early time schedule, which is commonsense when you run a business I would say.......The crankshaft in the te is the same as the tc, the reduced replacement time would be based on I would say, the higher compression that the tc runs and the way a tc is intended to be used. (tc runs a higher state of tune and different g/box ratio) My dealer has never had to replace a crank yet on a tc or te, in the last two years, if the 25 hr recomended replacement was adhered too surely he would have sold a multitude by now. One of the changes made to the 2012 model was the a change in the crank shaft or con-rod with a DLC- DIAMOND LIKE CARBON, coating to inrease crank life. ****************************************! I have asked the question weather the 2012 crank will fit my 2011 model, will find out when I eventually finish the strip down and start to order spares for the rebuild..... I dont race in competition other than the once a year Finke Desert Race, the bike is used mainly for enduro type riding around where we live and is geared via the rear sprocket as too not be revving its guts out all the time.......A replacement crankshaft comes complete with conrod attached, you cant buy seperate.....Just based on that alone at a replacement cost of $600-$700, plus a full engine strip down,. full gasket set and seals, rings for top end etc etc, assuming you can't complete these tasks on your own and require a shop to assist , it would make maintaining a tc449 a quite expensive habit at 25 hr RECOMMENDED crank replacement time schedule........Like I said, no probs just gotta fix and ride again, hopefully I am this isolated case and it wont or doesn't repeat itself again in the next 25-50 hrs that I intend to complete on the bike once fixed. =)

 

[banda]

Clearly what people do with their cranks and what manufacturers recommend are two different things - I get that. But I've replaced a few cranks on Yamahas, once for a big end failure, and once because the play in the con rod was out of spec. Those cranks don't last for ever, and the harder you run them (Hi Comp psiton, shaved head, aggressive valve timing) the sooner they die.

I'm not saying this to castigate you, Alvsey. I say it because too many people don't realistically consider the differences between a MX motor and an enduro motor when they buy a bike. You, sir, know this all too well now.

 

[Alvsey]

True mate and no probs at all. I may of sounded as though I was ERR grumpy, well sorry if that was the perception but, not the case at alll.....I ran a TE 310 09 last year with no major mechanical problems at all during my normal riding while training, pre-run of the event or the actual race. I replaced the piston prior to racing the event just as a safety precaution but, basically once removed it was nor really required.....This year I decided that I wanted some more punch from the bike and better standard suspension to start with before any fettling with the suspenders took place. I was offered a good deal on a run out 2011 tc which I purchased. Either way the TC449 for me was a step in the right direction, Fit all the normal accessories, bars steering dampner etc and off we go training. Suspension fettled to good results( which I have to share with another post on the cafe) and its getting closer to race day... Feeling pretty confident with the whole package compared to the previous year, the thought of an engine failure never even crossed my mind, coming off at high speed was something I considered but, not an engine failure.....Oh well the rest is history now, 80 kays from home she came to an untimely halt, BUGGER ****************************************......It was should I say dissapointing, after all the training, riding expense etc etc not to mention all the lads who came along and manned the fuel stops along the track, you feel like you let them down !!!But thats racing hey..... Looks like my trip next year to Europe to watch the Isle of Man TT races will be postponed until 2014, as I have unfinished business with the Finke Track in Alice Springs....Regardless of recomended replacement intervals, I don't know of anyone who isn't sponsored to ride, who would replace crankshafts at 25-50 or even higher intervals on their MX bikes. I've had a few YZ's and like I said, mates who all ride at national level MX and enduro who basically get a full years riding out of the bottom end and sell them off or keep as a practice bike for next year. Fix it and ride it, she'll be right ********************************************************************************

 

[ray_ray]

Too bad on your bike and you certainly seem to be taking it well ... I think it was bad luck or whatever you wanna so about your breakdown ... Its just a mechanical device ... All mechanical devices break ...Even your can-opener ... And please, JAP bikes blow every day ...

Can you actually, really and truly, imagine someone building a bike engine that really, really, and truly lasted < 2 work weeks? ... Two work weeks? The bike engine that lasts < 2 work weeks, does not exist ... Nor does that company exist... Nothing short of a childs' toy can last that short of a duration and last to see too many quarterly reports.

It's be like this on the work line: "Hey Bill ...I put forth my best work, to date, today ... This crank will last 2 work weeks and an extra 6 hrs ... I'm going home early and I'll be getting a big pay raise for my excellent work ... I'm also a VP candidate now ..."

It would be like this for riders: "I'd go riding today on my new ~$8,000++, $8,000 USD bike but the crank is weak after 2 weeks ... I gotta replace before it blows apart and does real damage" ...

Its has to be liability issue with companies on these low ball numbers ... I only worked at one big company ... What little bit of data I had access to that was released to the public, they always undershoot their products because they did not want to cover all the possibilities out there ...