2010 TE450 Electrical

[Dustdevil]

In the limited time I've had to work with the TE, I've got the fuel/air mix about right. It runs great. But lately, it has been blowing the 20 amp fuse behind the right side panel next to the battery. I was concerned, after reading some threads here, that I had one of those ghost in the machine type problems. Might still have one. but I stripped down the plastic and tank to get a look at the wiring loom. I found a lot of tight bends in the larger trunks of the loom, and a few questionable points where a wire was up against the sharp edge of the frame or a bolt head. Specifically, I did find that the wires and connector for the fuel pump and "fuel empty" sensor had rubbed themselves bare against the frame. Took care to insulate that much better. Re-routed some of the wiring, and took out the sharp kinks in the trunks of multiple wires. Zip-tied away from sharp edges, and disconnected and re-connected most of the electrical quick connectors to ensure they are actually making contact and aren't corroded. The bike only has 1350 miles on it, but it's almost 10 years old.
My symptoms were: Nothing associated with the left control perch would work. No headlight, no horn, no turn signals. No tail light. No brake light. It would kick start, and the electric starter would crank the engine, but virtually none of the other electricals were working. After a bit, the engine would begin to run a bit rough, re-introducing a sharp hesitation as the throttle was rolled open to accel from below about 2k rpm. Rode home in near darkness with no lights a few weeks ago. Only a couple miles, but I'll start carrying fuses with me. Lights went out again yesterday on a very short ride to the store, and ran rough again. After re-routing some wiring and insulating the fuel pump connector, it seems to operate just fine. I'll find out when I jump on it hard on an open road nearby, as that seems to bring on whatever short circuit has been blowing that fuse. Hopefully, I've corrected the problem.
Just wanted to post here for any comments in case someone else has had the same problem with a 2009 or 2010 TE model, as wiring seems very similar. Comments welcome, and personal experiences encouraged. Keeping my fingers crossed that the problem is solved. I'll test tomorrow and post results.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

Check all dark blue ground wires. There is a collection of 4 ground wires that meet up to 1 single consolidator ring, under the tank near the coil, I had a pic, but photobucket sucks.....my 2010, this ring broke and all 4 grounds were lost.

 

[Dustdevil]

I'll take that advice and go looking for that ground point.

 

[Dustdevil]

Update: I tried insulating and harnessing the connector and associated wiring for the fuel pump and sensor. That did not do the trick. It all seems fine until I accelerate real hard a few times, then lights out. So, I just took loose the grounding of several wires with terminals at one end of the coil, and cleaned all that up with a bit of sandpaper just to ensure it's all making good contact. No corrosion. It actually looked pretty good, but no harm in dressing it up a bit. I also removed and ensured good contact with the rectifier/voltage regulator. A theory: At high rpm on hard accel, the alternator/generator actually produces very high ac voltage (at least, higher than 12volts), which the rectifier is supposed to convert to DC 12v, and simultaneously limit voltage to the system. If that is not grounded, is there a chance this voltage regulation function can't shunt excess power to ground, and therefore the system operates on much higher voltage until the weak link is found? I don't notice lights getting suddenly brighter. But then, I'm not usually paying much attention to that, and I'm testing this before it actually gets dark. Blew a fuse this evening after I insulated the fuel pump connector, but before I cleaned up the ground point and re-mounted the voltage regulator. It's dark now, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow after work to do more testing, as I don't want to find myself ripping down the boulevard after dark with no lights. Does this voltage regulator work by shunting off excess system voltage to ground? Is it possible? I've checked other wires and harnesses where they touch anything sharp, and isolated them out of harm's way.
My next idea, after testing, is to check grounds/negative connections within the area of the stator just to ensure that is properly grounded as well. I'm doing these one at a time to settle on the actual cause so I can keep an eye on it and don't have to troubleshoot all over again if the trouble returns. I have very limited time to ride right now, as life is extremely busy and daylight hours are short here in the states. Any additional ideas are welcome!

 

[Dustdevil]

The more I read about it the more I think my theory above isn't all that plausible. Besides, I tested the charging system. Without recent charge, the batt was about 12.4v. While engine is running, it's 14.2 pretty steady. When I whack the throttle, it drops to 14.1, but recovers quickly. Sounds like the stator, regulator, charging system are OK. But I have a simultaneous problem. My new(er) Battery Tender AGM battery is dying. It's 3 months old. Just wondering if it's possible that a short in the battery could cause this? It's been happening for very roughly the same time frame as the point where I noticed my battery no longer will crank the starter fast enough to actually start the engine. Kick starts fine. Just won't crank electrically. I suspect a short circuit within the battery. I've inspected pretty much all the other wiring, and I'm not finding any short circuits there beyond the fuel pump connector, which I fixed.
So, anyone with any ideas feel free to comment. Otherwise, this will just serve as a document for the problem and hopefully a quick fix.

 

[Dustdevil]

Just took another very short ride. Beginning to suspect this has nothing to do with rpm. Seems to take place at about the 10 minute mark. Already know this is a bad battery, and I’ll have a new one on the way soon. I have noticed the seat base presses hard enough on the top front edge of this battery to leave an indentation. Wondering if this has anything to do with it? Will find out soon enough when a new one shows up.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

How old is the fuel pump in this bike? How many miles on the bike?

 

[Eoin]

10 minutes in, then something is likely getting hot. I had a bad connector on the ignition circuit on a car that did exactly the same thing - started and ran OK, but high resistance made the connector hot, resistance goes up more and the misfire keeps getting worse.

 

[Dustdevil]

How old is the fuel pump in this bike? How many miles on the bike?

Bike has 1375 miles total. Fuel pump is new. I am suspecting the battery more all the time. This all started around the same time the battery began losing its ability to hold a charge. Could certainly be a dead short elsewhere, but that would also drag down the system voltage with the engine running. If the battery is on the load side of the 20 amp fuse, it’s entirely plausible.

 

[Dustdevil]

Rode it for about 15 minutes at dusk yesterday. Was careful not to rev beyond about 4500 rpm or accelerate hard. Fuse held up, same battery. I may be able to take a longer ride this afternoon to see if that changes or confirms anything.

 

[Dustdevil]

So, while I'm waiting for Battery Tender to ship my new battery, I took it for a ride again today, hoping to see if the fuse will actually hold up again. It did, oddly enough. But some other issues that leave me scratching my head. Everything was fine for about 15-20 minutes. Then I started to get a sudden loss of all engine power. Like somebody hit the kill switch for half a second. Stalled completely once. Then again the sudden abrupt hiccup. Each time that happened, the dashboard went blank, then came back up again. Few minutes more, it really started running crappy at low throttle settings, and when I accelerated. Sputtering, popping, jerking, sudden loss of power for 1/2 second. Kick it up a gear and roll the throttle way up to the top 1/3 and the sputtering and popping would stop. Then it would happen all the time, then suddenly work fine again. All the way home on back streets to avoid traffic. Once again checked system voltage at the battery, and it was 13.3v with engine shut down, and 14.2-14.3 with engine running. Revving the engine would change it to 14.15- 14.35, and steady rpm at 4500-5000 would stabilize at 14.35. What was really weird is that if I had the turn signal on while revving the engine, the frequency of the flasher would suddenly speed up to about double speed. That tells me the voltage rose and forced the flasher module to speed up and trip sooner at a higher voltage. No? Am I chasing the wrong problem? Hoping this is truly a defective battery, and it's making the whole system misbehave in different ways. My theory is that there is a shorted cell in this AGM battery, and it's shunting system voltage to ground when the battery gets hot, raising the amperage and blowing the fuse. I am a bit suspicious of the voltage regulator/rectifier, and wondering if that is one reason a nearly new battery would suddenly short between a positive cell and a negative one. If so, I'll likely destroy a new battery shortly after it arrives.

 

[Dustdevil]

Really strange now. Took another short ride with a brand new battery. The battery isn't the problem. Ran perfectly. No popping, stuttering, or spitting. BUT, Fuse blew at about 4-5 minutes. Replaced it, started the bike, and the fuse blew immediately. Got it home and started taking the whole wiring harness loose from the frame, took all the wiring apart back at the tail light/brake light/turn signal area. Found one wire skinned and possibly touching, but it is a turn signal, not anything that's on all the time. Pulled all wiring away from anything metal, left the tail light and turn signals unplugged, and started it again with another brand new fuse. Blew immediately. I'm not finding any wiring that's rubbing on metal anywhere, and it's all loose from the frame or other components. Unplugged and re-inserted a few connectors that pertain to items always "ON" when the engine is running, such as headlight, left handlebar switch assembly, clutch switch, front brake switch, and re-wired and insulated the skinned wire in the tail light assembly that's ostensibly for the SX (left) side. So, it's not the wiring in the tail light, and certainly doesn't appear to have anything to do with any of the wires around the headlight/instrument cluster. I'm not ready to strip all the jacketing from the wiring harnesses throughout the entire system, because the motorcycle only has 1350 miles on it. The chances that one of those wires has skinned itself within the tight wrap of electrical tape along the entire harness is very slim. I'm beginning to suspect a component failure.
So, it's starting to look like whatever is going wrong, it has to do with the Yellow/Black wire exiting the 20a fuse, which leads directly to the DC Relay, where it then exits as the Green/Black wire. Now the turn signals acting strangely, speeding up the frequency of the blinker, are starting to make more sense. I'll need to pull that assembly apart and see if maybe a wire is loose or if there is a strand bridging to ground or some other component switch within the assembly. Just don't have time to do it right now, but I"ll report results when I do get a chance to get it apart.

 

[Oldscool]

Check the operation of all components that run from that fuse. For example, I've seen a siezed cooling fan blow a fuse in similar circumstances to yours, only blew when the fan was being switched on.

 

[Dustdevil]

Check the operation of all components that run from that fuse. For example, I've seen a siezed cooling fan blow a fuse in similar circumstances to yours, only blew when the fan was being switched on.

Yep, started doing that. Unplugged the fan and a new fuse popped immediately. Traced the headlight wiring, and all looks good with that. Horn is next, then turn signals. Still have a hunch it’s in the switch cluster on the left handlebar. But I’ll check the lot of them.

 

[Dustdevil]

Ok, got to dig into this much deeper today. Sat and traced through the wiring diagram a lot this morning. This short circuit affected the 20a fuse, which shut down the headlight, tail light, brake light, turn signals, horn, dashboard. Appears that the fuse protects the Yellow/Black wire and everything connected to that. But as it enters the DC Relay, the Y/Bk turns to G/Bk (Green Black) when that relay closes the circuit upon engine startup. The short was not evident until the engine was started. So, I started to trace that through to see where it might be grounding/cut/abraded. But it also appears that all these devices are on G/Bk except the Dashboard, and it's on Y/Bk, which feeds G/Bk. That would mean the short is not downstream at G/Bk, but upstream along Y/Bk somewhere. So, everything attached to, or close to, Y/Bk got tested. All the relays, keyswitch, I even stripped back the outer wrap of electrical tape along most of the wire harness just to be certain nothing inside was skinned, cracked, or damaged insulation. It's starting to look like the horn. I was putting everything back together with a strong desire to avoid any sharp edges or tight bends, wrapped it all up, and I got a hunch. Unplugged the horn, and when I started it up, it ran for several minutes with no issue whatsoever. It's been raining hard here all day, so I did not completely button everything up. But maybe tomorrow I can do that and take it for a ride without the horn connected. Doesn't mean the horn itself is the issue. Could still be the left handlebar switch cluster. I tested all those, but with limited actual runtime on the bike with the engine running, my diagnosis was limited. I'll test the switch in place tomorrow to see if I can identify anything fishy. Could actually be the horn itself, though. Because it's been hit a few times, with a broken bracket. I grafted a new hand-made bracket for it, but after getting tossed around for 9 years, it's entirely possible there is a short circuit there. I'll know more tomorrow. But looks promising so far. While I was at it, I tidied up the wiring harness and relieved some sharp bends and secured everything a little better. Still have a few sharp edges I'd like to buffer with some hard plastic or really heavy insulation. Bu the wire harness is now zip-tied away from those metal edges. Keeping my fingers crossed that this is the issue, as everything else on this iron horse seems to work really well. Can't wait to get it out into the desert.

 

[Dustdevil]

Took it for a ride for about 20 minutes today. Works perfectly as long as I leave the horn unplugged. Either the horn is bad, or the switch is bad. Not sure which yet. But I'll find it now. Re-wrapped and re-installed the wiring harness along the frame, being careful to avoid any sharp edges. Wiring inside looks amazingly good. I was sort of hoping to find a skinned wire or three, but as it turns out, just unplugging and testing all the components in that circuit ended up being the solution. I'm pretty sure it's robust now, and if it does come down to the horn itself, I'll just order another one and get this finished. If it's the switch, I will likely have to order a new entire left hand switch assembly.

 

[Bugsinteeth]

Dustdevil,
Sounds like you battled your way to a solution without giving up. Well done!
Wish I possessed the electrical diagnostic skills to do similar if the need presented itself.
I learned a little bit along the way with your well reasoned approach and excellent descriptive postings. Thanks for that!
You will enjoy that beast....they go well in the desert! (TXC 450 owner here).
Cheers,
Bugs

 

[Dustdevil]

Dustdevil,
Sounds like you battled your way to a solution without giving up. Well done!
Wish I possessed the electrical diagnostic skills to do similar if the need presented itself.
I learned a little bit along the way with your well reasoned approach and excellent descriptive postings. Thanks for that!
You will enjoy that beast....they go well in the desert! (TXC 450 owner here).
Cheers,
Bugs

Thanks for the kudos. It was a long process, mostly because things are just crazy busy right now across the board. I documented all the head-scratching and thinking through this project, specifically so anyone can find this with the right search terms, if they have a similar problem. Some additional things I found:

1. This is a complicated wiring scheme with lots of chances for short circuits. With so many devices to make them street legal, it's necessary.
2. They did a pretty good job of getting the circuitry right from the factory, not such a good job of routing to avoid cuts, abrasions, and damaged insulation.
3. By necessity, there are separate circuits to supply power to various devices with key on only, with key and engine running, and with key off.
4. If the lighting circuit on its 20 amp fuse is overcurrent and blows the fuse, the engine continues to run on battery power, not the magneto. The battery will eventually run down and the engine will stutter, spit, cough, sneeze, etc.
5. Vibration from the lack of a balancer on the engine is a factor in electrical fatigue of connections and devices. Would be nice to have the time to tear down the engine and add the balancer that comes on the SMR version of this engine.
6. Unrelated to electrical, but.... the factory recommended settings for the Power Up setup suck. Their air screw adjustment on the Mikuni injection system is best set by trial and error to the most turns out from full closed that allow the engine to smoothly accelerate from throttle full-closed position. Mine is just under two turns. The fuel delivery settings in the CO section of the setup software from iBeat are different for every bike. But the dealer who first sold this bike to the original owner simply kept setting it at factory recommended settings, and it never ran right until adjusted in this manner. It's why this bike has a salvage California title. It was a lemon law buy-back because the dealer was primarily a Harley Davidson dealer, and didn't take the time to set it up right. It kept coming back with the same complaint under the warranty, and the owner just threw up his hands and made them buy it back. It now runs almost perfectly, albeit the thing does use a bit more fuel than I'd like. Eventually, I might be able to squeeze a few more miles per gallon out of it. For now, it runs like a champ.
7. My only complaint is the very small gas tank. The only ones that seem to be available are fugly. Not just ugly. Fugly. I'll deal with it for the time being.

Hope somebody else finds an easier way to solve any similar problems using this thread.

 

[Dustdevil]

Update over 2 years later: Bike still runs perfectly. Don't ride as much as I'd like, but probably will when I retire. The problem I experienced with electricals WAS the horn. I replaced it with one from a CRF450L a local Honda dealer took off to prepare the bike(s) for Baja adventures. They gave it to me for free, as it was eventually going to be thrown out. I bought some new goggles from them for being nice. A number of rides later, this bike really works well. Power is never lacking for the riding I do. Stock gearing. Stock suspension with painstaking adjustment for my particular style, speed, and terrain. It appears my only two choices for a larger gas tank are the Safari 4 gallon + monster, or a custom made aluminum welded one. I found a guy willing to do it, but it would be nearly $1000 US. I'll likely spring for a Safari tank before they go away. Clarke no longer makes one. Nor does IMS. I talked with IMS, and they stopped making theirs because they had way too many problems with leakage where the fuel injection system bolts in. They had a steel insert, but still would not seal well enough on many. Some are successful with this, and have tanks from when IMS still made them. A local SWM dealer said they had been told that Acerbis was working on a new larger tank for the SWM RS500. I communicated with someone in marketing at Acerbis in Italy, and he denied the rumor. Said they had no plans unless and until SWM was successful in selling many more bikes.

Stock gearing. Around town, and off-road, it's fine. For high speeds, or on the freeway, it's geared low. So, the engine is sometimes running in the 6000-7000 rpm range. At that rpm, it ends up running hot, and I lose clutch engagement due to overheating fluid in the slave cylinder. At least, according to George Erl. He has the orings. Somewhere. Someday, I'll get that done. But for the most part, it runs in acceptable temp ranges at normal speeds. Don't want to re-gear with higher final drive, because first gear is already high enough. Occasionally, our trail systems get really tight and there is some hard enduro-like short sections that would be miserable in a higher gear. Some, I modulate the clutch already.

I put a Shinko 3.25 fatty on the front, and a Kenda Equilibrium hybrid on the rear, and I love both. Where we live now, there is a lot of very tight singletrack. I've ridden some of it, with switchbacks that are insane. I have to re-learn how to ride with this bike, because the throttle response is very very quick. Torque right off the bottom, and more than enough of it. It wants to stand up a bit in those turns, so I just carry momentum and pull in the clutch so I don't get into trouble. Most of our trails are between 3500-6000 ft here, and everything works great. Fire roads and dirt roads, it's so easy I could ride a 50 year old street bike and be reasonably happy.

 

[Dustdevil]

For anyone interested in a thread I started regarding clutch slave cylinder, gearing, seat height issues, you can go here: http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/clutch-gearing-seat-height-issues.92647/