2008 TE 250 Sputtering and Stalling After a Couple Miles

[MFGamesta]

OK. I thought I got all the gremlins out of my TE 250 (athena 300 kit). I was wrong. Here are the symptoms and what I have done.

Starts up fine. Battery and starter are good and it kicks good too. When it's cold... I will usually go about 4 or five miles and then it starts acting like shit. Sputtering and stalling. I think it's electrical but I would think the symptoms would be happening as soon as I start up.

I just put in a new CA cycle works fuel filter today and I also replaced the temp sensor as I've heard those can go bad. Bike has power up so no O2 sensor hooked up.

I haven't gapped and replaced the spark plug yet and I'm wondering if that would be the issue after it warms up. I've tried to check the connections and looked for frayed wires and I can't find any.

I really think it's electrical but I don't know what to check.

 

[ghte]

Could it be fuel related?

 

[Trenchcoat85]

If you truly think it's electrical, it sounds heat-related. The most common heat-related electrical problems are with the coil and the ignition pickup. ...and maybe the fuel pump (1st year of injection IIRC)

on any suspected electrical problem, the first move is to measure battery voltage- bike off, & then running. (12.6v & then 14.3v)

good luck.

 

[MFGamesta]

If you truly think it's electrical, it sounds heat-related. The most common heat-related electrical problems are with the coil and the ignition pickup. ...and maybe the fuel pump (1st year of injection IIRC)

on any suspected electrical problem, the first move is to measure battery voltage- bike off, & then running. (12.6v & then 14.3v)

good luck.

Thanks for the tip. Like I said, I just replaced fuel pump and it has new gas. I'm pretty sure the other fuel pump I just replaced is fine but I wanted to eliminate that. Got a back up now.

The bike started up just fine today. I do have a volt meter so I think I should measure the voltage as you prescribed above. I'm assuming those are easy to replace. I know a bad stator would contribute to ignition problems but how would a battery voltage test show anything if the coil or ignition pickup are bad? Just trying to understand.


I really like this bike and don't want to replace it.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

the voltage test just tells you right away if you have either a battery problem or a charging system problem. You can't diagnose any other electrical problems easily if either of those conditions exists. And since it is a fast 10 second test(s), you should always do it first thing.

A lot of times people will habitually put their bike on the charger when they're not riding (and there's nothing wrong with that) which can actually mask a charging problem- until the battery starts to totally fail. A lot of bikes will run a full day or two on a good charged battery. In college, I had a VW with a shot generator. I charged it up about once per week- no shit.

this is semi-unrelated to the failed coil or pickup tests; it's just that these two problems can be more heat-sensitive then others. BTW, the coil test: plug a grounded spark plug into your spark plug cap.... hit the starter and look for consistent blue (whiter in daylight) sparks at the electrode. if it passes this test, your coil is good and so is your pickup (at least when cold- try it during a failure.) BTW, I suppose an injector could have a heat-related issue (as could any electrical component) but I haven't had any experience.

I'm not convinced you have an electrical problem- but possibly.

 

[MFGamesta]

the voltage test just tells you right away if you have either a battery problem or a charging system problem. You can't diagnose any other electrical problems easily if either of those conditions exists. And since it is a fast 10 second test(s), you should always do it first thing.

A lot of times people will habitually put their bike on the charger when they're not riding (and there's nothing wrong with that) which masks charging problems till the battery starts to fail. A lot of bikes will run a full day or two on a charged battery. In college, I had a VW with a shot generator. I charged it up about once per week- no shit.

this is semi-unrelated to the failed coil or pickup tests; it's just that these two problems can be more heat-sensitive then others. BTW, the coil test: plug a grounded spark plug into your spark plug cap.... hit the starter and look for consistent blue (whiter in daylight) sparks at the electrode. if it passes this test, your coil is good and so is your pickup (at least when cold- try it during a failure.) BTW, I suppose an injector could have a heat-related issue (as could any electrical component) but I haven't had any experience.

I'm not convinced you have an electrical problem- but possibly.

Thanks for the advice. I'm pretty good at some of the mechanical stuff and replacing stuff but I just don't know much about the electrical side.

Maybe I should swallow my pride and ask Up-tite to fix it.

 

[MFGamesta]

Just an update in hopes that someone has any other suggestions or so they can learn.

I called Up-tite and he had a couple of suggestions but he was in the process of moving so I decide to try a few more things until he gets his new shop squared away.

So far I have:
--replaced the fuel pump when while I had the tank off, I insulated it on the bottom as well with that reflective tape stuf.
--removed and cleaned the ECU and connections.
--added new gas
--replaced and gapped new spark plug

Here are the symptons:
--Bike starts up fine cold with button or kicker. Fires right up.
--battery is over 12v after a week sitting off charger.
--bike idles. The fan dose turn on and off to regulate the temperature after I let it idle for 15 minutes.
--When I take bike out for a ride, it usually goes for about 2 miles and then sputters and stalls.
--Bike WILL fire back up if I let it sit and cool down for about 15 minutes and then it stalls again after a mile or 2.

I ordered a new coil and spark plug wire as the price was right since many have said this may be the culprit as well.

Like I said earlier, I replaced the water temp sensor. Is there an air temp sensor? I couldn't find one on any parts list.

 

[TXC310 Chad]

That sure sounds like a heat related electrical problem. Likely pickup coil as was mentioned by Trenchcoat.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

this still doesn't' sound *that* electrical (but still, get a voltage reading while the bike is idling and let us know). OTOH, the ignition pickup can act weird too- it's part of the stator but sometimes can be replaced separately. typically a good pickup will have around 100ohms resistance; yours works when cold so it'd be hard to test for this. also, let us know if the new coil helps or not.

BTW, a battery being above 12volts does not eliminate anything- if it was above 12.6v after a week, you might feel a little more confident about it, but not much. the fact that it button-starts fine is a solid test for the battery.... but not the charging system. take the voltage of the battery when the bike is running.

sounds more like a fueling problem: vent/cap, flow? was the internal filter baggy clogged or are did you add an external filter?

the air temp sensor on my xlite is in the airbox, maybe yours is too.

you seem to be at the point of tossing money at it, hoping for a fix. I think you need to look at it from another perspective- maybe have a buddy look at it or wait 'till George gets the new diggs setup (where's that going to be, btw?)

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Chad- if you're wondering why these posts sound out of sequence... I believe it's because you're still on probation. so while you posted before me, it did not show up until after it was approved.

 

[268fords]

Has the fuel filter ever been changed? If you search for olderhuskyriders posts, he has pictures and part numbers of the fuel filter he found at an automotive store that worked.

 

[TXC310 Chad]

Chad- if you're wondering why these posts sound out of sequence... I believe it's because you're still on probation. so while you posted before me, it did not show up until after it was approved.

I know. Hopefully the probation ends soon.

 

[rancher1]

Have you tried putting the old fuel pump back in, I would try it to eliminate the fuel pump.

 

[MFGamesta]

No success yet.

• I ended up ordering the wrong (TXC) coil so it's different as it has less wire terminals on it. Could I still use it some how?
• I don't know what or where the pickup coil is.
• The battery, cold in the garage, is at12.3v so can't be that.
• I did put an after-market fuel filter in it the first time I replaced the fuel pump last year. Could that be it? It's one of those in-tank/in-line things. Not sure how I'd get these symptoms from that where it starts right up after cooling down.

I did go by Up-tite to order a Beta 5000 RR-S and he's still in the middle of moving so he can't get to the bike until next year and after several Baja trips. He knows my saga and thinks it might be down to a faulty ignition coil or ECU. His new shop is only a couple miles from his current shop. Too bad I didn't get the wrong ignition coil in until after I went to his shop last week.

@Trenchcoat85 is right and I should just wait until George gets squared away but I can't resist working on it.

This thing runs like a CHAMP for 3 miles! LoL.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

....

• The battery, cold in the garage, is at12.3v so can't be that...

Your battery is failing or has failed. You want 12.6 volts minimum ...and it should hold at that level for days/weeks- without a charging.

I know you are charging it, but that is just hiding the symptoms from you. And you may also have a charging system problem.

please (please?) take a voltage reading while the bike has been idling for a bit and report back. 30 second effort.

 

[MFGamesta]

Good catch Trenchcoat85. I put a perfectly good battery (12.7 volts) in it from my 450 but got the same results.

I also did a charging system test and it was steady at 14.1 volts at 3000 rpm.

George also told me he has NEVER heard of the air temp sensor (in the FI throttle body) going bad. He thinks it may be the coil or the ECU. My problem is the coil I ordered is for the TC/TXC (carbed) and it doesn't have the same connections so I don't know if I can even try to use it.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

ok- great (new battery, and it's not the charging system. btw, 14.1v is good, but not great) ...but you're still dealing with the 3-miles-and-then-it-runs-crappy problem right?

yeah, I've never heard of a bad air temp sensor either (otoh- i have way less experience than George with FI) and it seems to me that even so the bike would still run okay, because the difference in air density at different temps is not hugely radical in the temps we ride at... but who knows? maybe our maps go from -200° to +200° air temperature.

coil- coils are pretty simple so if you wanted to mickey-mouse it, it should be no problem (post a picture of your stock coil and the TC coil along with the connectors and I'll give some hints).

But once you use electrical parts.... they're yours. you've been dealing with this for a while- why don't you take the time to exchange it? Besides if it's a heat-related electrical problem, the coil is a prime suspect.

The coil you want is 8000H0276 (although 8000B0825 is listed and I can't find it) and you got 800091976, right?

(hey, I just thought of something... if the '08 coil is "no longer available", maybe they had problems and replaced it with the '09 [the 8000h0276]... if so, this would be a good reason to suspect your coil)

BTW, the "pick-up coil" is usually wired into you stator even though it's a different component. It basically tells an electronic ignition (or in your case- ECU) what position the crank/piston is at for timing/firing purposes. AKA pulse coil, crank position sensor, trigger coil, pluser and a couple more that I always forget. It's the other electrical component that is (even more) famous for heat-related failures. It can be replaced individually (using the same stator) by using an aftermarket pickup and soldering it in; otherwise you have to buy a new stator- expensive for guessing at a problem.

I'm now wondering if the fine filter in your injector has an intermittent clog. speaking of which, your problem most likely is heat-related; but it could also be time-related or even g-force related- something to think about.

 

[MFGamesta]

Thanks for giving me great suggestions, Trenchcoat85. True, the original part, 8000B0825, is discontinued. I wasn't sure if the 2009 part would work. I think I'll return the 800091976 coil as I know I can get the 2009 coil, 8000H0276. the '09 part at least has the same number of connections. and it's basically hooking up to a very similar ECU and engine.

I did take the injector out and clean it as best I could.

I know George won't be able to look at it until Feb and we need another bike so I don't mind throwing another 40 bucks at it as I have some time off in Jan and we want it running!

I don't believe it's the ECU as I've heard of them dieing but not dieing and coming back to life after the engine cools down.

 

[MFGamesta]

Hopefully a final update!!!

I was finally able to install the 2009 coil along with a new spark plug wire and cap. The new coil was made better with some plastic locking plugs instead of the 2008 radio shack connections. I had to cut that nice plug off and make it radio shack compatible. While I had the coil and voltage regulator off, I cleaned all of that too.

I took it for a 40 minute ride around town. I even stopped and let it idle until the fan turned on to make sure it was reaching max temp. The bike performed perfectly with no degradation in performance. Didn't sputter once from idle to WOT. It just runs better. (placebo effect...)

It does have a couple of low-rpm issues that I think I can clean up with ibeat (thank you alternate ibeat cable thread) and I think I need to tweak the TPS but that's for another thread after I do some more research.

So I can only think one or a combination of the following resolved my issue:

• New coil
• New spark plug wire
• New spark plug cap
• cleaning the surfaces for the voltage regulator
• cleaning up and tidying the wires underneath the gas tank (probably this)

Anyways it runs great and I will run it more this week as we're preparing to hit the dez this weekend.
Hope someone learns from this. The 2009 TE 250 voltage regulator DOES work on a 2008 TE 250.
Thanks everyone who gave me great suggestions. I learned a lot.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

congratulations. sounds like the coil did it (& the new plug cap and wire certainly didn't hurt).

It's good to come back a give other folks, reading this 5 years from now, your solution.