All 2st 2 Strokes in Cycle News

[ajaxauto]

Times are changing Just look at Cycle News this week as there is a full page storie about the Yamama YZ 144 at a cost of over 10,000
Maybe they are afraid of the Husky CR 144 Then there is a multi page storie about KTM In the storie they talk about how much it cost to Race a 4 stroke compaired to a 2 stroke and how the 2 stroke is so much lighter and easier to work on .Plus how the future of the 2 stroke looks good with the idea of a Dual Sport 2 stroke in the works
Thing are sure looking good for the 2 stroke
Now we need a heads up test between the all the little 2 strokes

 

[BadMotoWeazal]

Times are changing Just look at Cycle News this week as there is a full page storie about the Yamama YZ 144 at a cost of over 10,000
Maybe they are afraid of the Husky CR 144 Then there is a multi page story about KTM In the story they talk about how much it cost to Race a 4 stroke compared to a 2 stroke and how the 2 stroke is so much lighter and easier to work on .Plus how the future of the 2 stroke looks good with the idea of a Dual Sport 2 stroke in the works
Thing are sure looking good for the 2 stroke
Now we need a heads up test between the all the little 2 strokes

I'm sure the battle of the 144/150 will be coming. I noticed Dirt Bike had a small article on small bore MXer's & the Zip Ty Husky was in there with complementing words. Somebody needs to get out the old Bimota VDue plans & get that direct injection thing going again. It will work & the 2 stroke will live forever****************************************!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bimota_V_Due

The one that Barbers museum has belonged to a friend of mine. He had plenty of money to buy one at the time, it had some minor problems, but playing with 500cc smoker (or a non-smoker in this case) on the street/track was a lot of fun. I would love to have a fuel injected, direct oil injected WR 250/300, wouldn't you????

 

[ray_ray]

10Gs? usa money? That bike will get dusty on the showroom floor ...

That DI \ EFI stuff should be right around the corner ... 2t aren't going any where ... and if for no other reason, the 4t cost too much to overhaul ... They are just pumping money in the companies pocket for now ...

 

[ajaxauto]

10Gs? usa money? That bike will get dusty on the showroom floor ...

That DI \ EFI stuff should be right around the corner ... 2t aren't going any where ... and if for no other reason, the 4t cost too much to overhaul ... They are just pumping money in the companies pocket for now ...

The list of mods done to the YZ 125 had a price of over 5,000
then you add the cost of a YZ 125 and then you have over 10,000
Just to try and beat a CR 144
I want to see a 144 shoot out

 

[LawnDartMike]

It will probably take a company like Rotax or KTM to get the DI going. The Japanese companies are just too happy to keep selling overpriced 4t bikes.

 

[ghte]

KTM has been spending some R&D bucks on efi and would probably have had one for 2011 if not for their financial situation. Look for it in 2012, Husaberg will also most likely be there for 2012. It is now seriously time for Husky to get onto the 2 bangers and update with new gear box, clutch, electric leg and efi. When that is done they will be great as the basic motors are excellent, tough and reliable.

 

[ajaxauto]

KTM has been spending some R&D bucks on efi and would probably have had one for 2011 if not for their financial situation. Look for it in 2012, Husaberg will also most likely be there for 2012. It is now seriously time for Husky to get onto the 2 bangers and update with new gear box, clutch, electric leg and efi. When that is done they will be great as the basic motors are excellent, tough and reliable.

Gear Box What could be better or stronger then the one they use now
Have you ever heard of some one having problems with a 2 stroke gear box
Clutch How could it be better or last longer i have over 2 years of racing on a CR 125 clutch and over 4 years on both a 250 and 125 clutch basket with only i clutch change in 4 years If you want a lighter pull on the 250 shorten the cable a few inches like the Zip Ty Racing team does PLEASE no Hydrilic clutch
Please no e button no need for it the bike is almost imposable to stall
Maybe EFI but only if it means we can get a green sticker or a plate on it other wise
The 125/144 is almost a perfect bike The 250 could go on a diet

 

[tony_dt]

Amen, not even sure I would want EFI. A keihin carb would be nice.
On the 250/300 if they could just lighten it a little without sacrificing reliability.

Gear Box What could be better or stronger then the one they use now
Have you ever heard of some one having problems with a 2 stroke gear box
Clutch How could it be better or last longer i have over 2 years of racing on a CR 125 clutch and over 4 years on both a 250 and 125 clutch basket with only i clutch change in 4 years If you want a lighter pull on the 250 shorten the cable a few inches like the Zip Ty Racing team does PLEASE no Hydrilic clutch
Please no e button no need for it the bike is almost imposable to stall
Maybe EFI but only if it means we can get a green sticker or a plate on it other wise
The 125/144 is almost a perfect bike The 250 could go on a diet

 

[LawnDartMike]

EFI = more power and you can tune the power any way you want it. No need for an expansion chamber either. I'd be there in a heartbeat - you get to keep all the advantages of the 2t with the tunability of the new 4t efi bikes.

 

[Vinduro]

Now why do you think you wouldn't need an expansion chamber ? There will still be fuel spillage into the exhaust wouldn't there ?

 

[BadMotoWeazal]

Now why do you think you wouldn't need an expansion chamber ? There will still be fuel spillage into the exhaust wouldn't there ?

Wouldn't you still need the back pressure too?

 

[LawnDartMike]

From the designs I have seen the fuel is injected and burned while all the ports are closed so there is no unburnt fuel expelled out the exhaust port. The intake air (no fuel in it) is inducted which scavenges the exhaust out of the cylinder. I guess you could still use an expansion chamber pipe to help pressurize the air charge in the cylinder.

I have lost the good links I used to have that went into great detail.

http://www.synerject.com/di.html
http://www.sae.org/mags/AEI/POWER/8157

 

[ray_ray]

EFI will be a big big selling point ...too big for magazines to overlook and it should help to some degree on emissions ... all the tree huggers will have to stay up nights to figure out a new 'bad' angle on dirt biking ... don't kid yourself ...bmw has the husky bucks to put this technology out in 2012 .... question is, do they want to? Something like this is right up bmws alley ... they have always pushed out there on different technology ...

A 2T without an expansion chamber? That would be weird and weird looking maybe but it would be another expensive item we do not need for tuning the bike ....

 

[speedkills]

Whatever new technology comes to two strokes the sleds and boats will see it first so keep an eye in that direction if you're interested.

http://www.snowgoer.com/output.cfm?id=1836523

I'm far from an expert but from what has been explained to me the expansion chamber has next to nothing to do with actual fuel delivery or the form it takes and is all about cramming more air into the cylinder so I doubt expansion chambers are going away until we have external charging of the cylinders and since I have a hard time picturing a supercharger or turbo charger on a dirt bike anytime soon (I don't want to hear from you crazy hillclimbers!) we're probably stuck with dented pipes for a while. Now it would be pretty cool if at least that design could be advanced, maybe turned around backwards with the expansion chamber hidden in the subframe somewhere to protect it from dents but it doesn't really look like there is room for that. That and some form of internal volume shaping could be pretty awesome, something like a powervalve but for the pipe that could change the free volume of the pipe with rpm to vary the powerband. Hell, even if you had to adjust it by hand in the first iteration with a wrench at least you'd have one more knob to turn to adjust your powerband for various conditions.

Direct injection (with varying oil rate by load/rpm) is the enhancement I am most looking forward to but it always feels like one of those things that will be "just around the corner" for another decade or two. It could mean no more smoke which doesn't help our image any but more importantly for those of us with newer WR125/144s it would mean we could bum straight gas off of our four stroke friends when we run out

 

[Last Lap]

I thought KTM's direct injection 2 stroke would need a air pump for it to work. That means someting else to go wrong.

If fuel injection requires a battery, sensors, fuel pump, computer and a wiring harness forget it. Nothing but extra weight and expense. Direct injection usually requires high fuel psi like a fuel rail. Unlike the current throttle body. I bought one fuel injected four stroke(TE310) and I was not impressed. That bike would have ran just the same with a carb and without all the extra weight. My 310 almost left me stranded because of a bad coolant temp switch.

Doesn't Yamaha have a fuel injected four stroke MX bike that does not need a battery?

 

[speedkills]

Are you only a luddite when it concerns technologies you haven't tried yet or are you still running around on a XR200s because water cooling is just one more thing to go wrong? Most of us made the switch not because we like the fact that one wrong move and we could end up stranded with a busted radiator, but because it is reliable enough and makes enough of a performance improvement that we will risk it. And this coming from a guy who had to pour water in his radiator every 10 minutes to finish his last ride.

If there is no advantage in performance then of course I wouldn't risk something else going wrong but if there is the same advantages that the snowmobilers are seeing (which is to be expected IMHO) and the reliability is fairly good then I'll take the risk.

I've had a few bad experiences with fuel injection as well (I bought the 2000 Suzuki TL1000R, they should have stuck with carbs like Yamaha did that year) but I think they actually have more to offer two strokes than they do for four strokes. They can do some neat stuff with them, the new Evinrude direct injection motors automatically push more oil during the break-in period and keep track of the hours on the motor so that once you are broken in they can push a little less oil resulting in crisper running and less smoke. And who here on a two stroke couldn't use better fuel economy or one that could be putted around on all day when riding with a slow friend or the kids and then wound out for 5 minutes in the desert the next day with no loading up or seizing? Sign me up, but maybe not for the first year model.

You're comparing to four strokes which tend to carburate very well, I don't think use two strokers have it as good as we think. I felt like my bike was running perfectly last ride out, I managed 25mpg. The two four strokes I was with averaged over 40mpg, I'll admit it, I'm jealous. My handling with their efficiency.....

But yeah, you're right, and if there were more people who felt as strongly about it as you did we wouldn't be seeing so many e-start bikes sold with no kicker for backup but I don't think the average rider worries about it that much. They just trust that the manufacturer will make it reliable and then they take it out in the middle of nowhere and cross their fingers.

Or is that just me?

I'm not sure if it's Yamaha but I do recall one (or more) of the Japanese makers has a non-battery bike. I think they need a two kick to get it going starting technique though, one to build energy for the spark and the second to actually start it. Can anyone confirm or deny that? Too lazy to Google it right now. Actually seems like a good place to use a small capacitor, enough to hold the energy for just one spark to prevent needing a first priming kick.

 

[Last Lap]

I should have stated that I race these bikes. So weight is a factor and fuel injection adds more weight and expense to a bike that will run maybe better than a good jetted carb bike. Untill there is a fuel injection that does not weight more than a carb bike I'm not in. It would also need a map for each gear that the bike is in. For an advid trail rider the 310 was good. The enduro racers like it simple. Most of the two stroke riders that bought a e start ktm took them off because of all the problems. Just not needed.

 

[speedkills]

Ahhh....I getcha. I should have stated as well that I'm coming at it from a trail riders perspective. Just to get rid of some of the smoke.... man that makes us look bad to non-riders.

So you're the guy they designed that damned 1.8 gallon tank for :rant:

 

[Last Lap]

Were getting hit hard here too. I would also like a two stroke that doesn't somke up the enviorment. I think by the time they came up with fuel injection of two stroke dirtbikes the electric bikes will be here and I'll be riding one of them.

 

[DrZero]

I'm not sure if it's Yamaha but I do recall one (or more) of the Japanese makers has a non-battery bike. I think they need a two kick to get it going starting technique though, one to build energy for the spark and the second to actually start it. Can anyone confirm or deny that? Too lazy to Google it right now. Actually seems like a good place to use a small capacitor, enough to hold the energy for just one spark to prevent needing a first priming kick.

I have a 2007 YZ-450F. It has no battery. It will start with one kick if you are lucky. I usually prime it to get the piston where it will do the most good. It's an art, not a science. It has pissed me off. It has required 50 kicks to start.

It has never died and left me in the middle of nowhere, which is more important than lots of kicks, I think. Especially if you ride far far away from everything.