1984 510 TE Aussie resto

[SA63]

http://picasaweb.google.com.au/100223000876682121078/510?authkey=Gv1sRgCPmAwd66qe6oyAE#


This is the bike I have done this year . I don’t know how to put photos into the thread so have used the link above. Maybe I got it. will have to see once its posted.
Bike not cleaned since last ride!

The bike was pretty sad and my gut feeling was saying walk away, but these bikes are very rare in Australia – so what can you do!
Some bits and pieces of this discussed on other threads.
Here is is:
Chassis:
Frame sanded down and spray canned.. cheap and nasty I know but thats my choice..maybe Ill change the colour some time.. Frame was in good condition overall.
Wheels – new excel rims + stainless spokes, hubs painted ,relaced
All steel parts and fasteners rezinc’ed apart from the usual bits that didn’t make it silver paint..)

Swing arm was a CR ( I think)so I had to fabricate the mount for the torque arm . There is a photo showing the start of making the bits on a borrowed swingarm to copy .

Husky footpegs , after a few slippery experiences... I took the easy way out and put extenders on, but still allowing folding and kickstart to clear.

I had already replaced the butchered sidestand mount& painted the swing arm before I noticed the torque arm mount wasn’t there!!! %^**%^!!! Also had no brake rod so I made up a stainless one ( On RHS Photo of swingarm)

Forks standard, rebuilt (15w oil), disc mounts had been welded on, now cut off- I will be adding emulators + harder springs when they arrive. Used straight bar mounts and modified fork caps.
I tried motor oil and found it too harsh.

Shocks – see 510 ITC damping thread!


The original tank is huge and was very stained so I went for the Clarke tank, I cut some foam out the front on the seat where it rests on the tank so it can sit nicely against the hump of the tank. the new seat cover material stretches nicely so no problem. Close up photo shows the fit.

Graphics and seat cover direct from MXM and cables were from venhill direct- a bargain

Engine
Where to start?
The head on it had had a really hard life, broken fins, a pushed in brass spark plug mount, exhaust valves had let go at some stage and had been poorly welded up and redrilled badly.. to cut a long story short I got another used head (thanks Rik Smit)and the seats/r& D springs kibblewhite black diamond valves valve seats etc finished it.
Barrel – Apart from being worn out and having some monkey try and remove it with a cold chisel in the past it was fine! Rik Smit came to the rescue with a 93 mm piston.
Bottom end:
Clutch side: ok apart from a smashed clutch cover , no gearshift or starting mech.
Used a 2 stroke cover that needed rebushing on k/start shaft but was other wise in good condition. Took a while to get it to fit properly (photo with kick start stuck)
Its a flimsy cover! Maybe one of the remanufactured alloy ones one day.

Crank was fine, gears – some had lost hardening, were replaced – also clutch shaft replaced.
All bearings replaced.
Nice gearbox – easy to work on, and shifts really nicely. Tritrophy on ebay was really good to deal with
The centre gasket being sold are from from a 610te and you need to be careful when assembling as the crank tends to pull it in. (I know because my first effort had more oil spurting out at the bottom of the crank than the valdez. I trimmed the second gasket after splitting the motor again!

Quite a few parts and gaskets are common the 610.

Carby was from a husaberg. It would run fine but only bump starting so I combined a used 510 dellorto PHM and used the best parts from both to make 1. It has the later brass husaberg slide ground the same as the original alloy 510 slide which was pretty worn. I kept the husaberg choke ( hanging off the head on LHS)

Plastic filler cap was broken so aluminium one made by my dad (outside my skill level!)on LHS engine photo. I turned up the muffler ends as it didn’t have any(my skill level!!).

Photo shows aluminium pipe to make new mufflers..I want to do oval ones though so still thinking on this.

Carby boot from svensbike (thanks) took a while to arrive but worked out. Airfilter – 81 Maico.. no backfire mesh yet..
SEM Ignition was good...

Would have taken me a lot longer if not for borrowing a lot of parts and knowledge from Grant McLennan who’d done his one up earlier. Thanks Grant!

Riding pics last weekend were taken by my 12 y.O daughter..

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Slmk1-PVJ-Y/TGyksgbYQRI/AAAAAAAAAFo/7aPbwttFndY/s400/100_0691.JPG

More photos here of the track by the pro photographer ( Harrisville)

http://vmxshotz.com/site/#/gallery/harrisville-aug-2010/



Great bike to ride – suspension has some issues and the carb took some sorting out. Starts easily when cold, and is bearable when hot but not great. I will try a 38mmVM mikuni carby as i have one lying around and I have jetting specs for a tt500 to start with , but I am happy with the Dellorto performance wise. !

Its fast enough although grant has a cam from the day for more mid range to try
Any words of wisdom on starting and jetting gratefully received. It is standard jetted now.
I am quite keen on the homemade hot strart mod covered in the single cam forum for the 610.

I Would like to know if anyone out is using a flatslide mikuni and what jetting they are using.

I suspect the SEM ignition is partly to blame for the reluctant hot starting, but the later 610 ducati ignition is a bit away, or has anyone used the electrex world unit? Again would like to hear what ignitions are being used. I have several ignition covers so will weld in some vents to try and feed the cool(er) air into it

So suspension to finish , mufflers and will vent an ignition cover to and from airbox then its done!

 

[Michel Dufayard]

Yeah ! A lot of work, and a lot of parts to find.
Looks like a Benetton 510 ( parts from several countries in the world).
Here two pics of Australian 510.

 

[HuskyT]

I like the Yosh Silencer on the second one. Both look Great! I'm partial to Blue and Yellow...

T

 

[SA63]

the black one is in north queensland, but not ridden(much) and the other one was for sale earlier this year. It has jumped between australia and new zealand betwen various owners - both look great!

 

[Ambo84]

Hi
I'm building up one of these bikes at the moment and I'm wondering how I can get in contact with these guys so they can point me in the right direction when it comes to finding parts and tricks to modifying them.
Dose anyone have e-mail or number ?

 

[Michel Dufayard]

Welcome in the 510 world !
Click on the name, and you can send a private message !

 

[SA63]

I am in Brisbane - pm me and Ill be happy to help if i can.

 

[SA63]

So I made up the mufflers.. taken a few months.. I nearly went with chinese cheapies but wanted a retro look on the end caps to go with the era..
Its 80 mm x 3mm tube, machined down to 2mm for weight and the bit I used was pretty knocked about, so needed to clean it up.
Cut at 320mm, and squashed between two bits of wood. I used a press but a vice would do the job. I surprised myself how easy it was and how well it worked. I wasnt perfect but the endplate hides that ..


The inner core rolled and tacked from perforated sheet and diameter is 31-32mm same as headers (up 6 mm from std muffler). A mate has a big sheet of it so I traded an airfilter for the sheet and 80mm pipe.

I copied the dimension from a 87 510 which goes very nicely with 320 mm muffler with the same size core.

So the ends are 4mm plate (cut/drilled finished on a linisher), welded at the back where you cant see my welding!! I am very much an amateur with aluminium - has to be 2 passes with the tig - see all the dead parts in one photo!! (more aluminium and more beer!!)
This photo shows how I attached the steel to the alloy, tapped and bolted with a stainless sleeve on the outside over a spigot pipe spot welded . Not ideal, but less work than turning it from aluminium..

The end cap was the hardest thing to made because of my poor welding abilities! but is plate with tabs welded and tapped. the pipe outlet is turned on the lathe and welded in.
I tried to copy the standard rubber mount style, but it was beyond my welding skills..
What I have is ok, maybe not quite as meaty as id like, but as they are much lighterthey should be fine.

And the result! 1.05 kg vs 2.7kg, a very nice surprise!! (3.2 kg weight saving for both)
A little louder and throatier but not at all offensive, and more punch in the mid range and up. Oh and sand blasted as a finish (easy and quick!!)

Many hours of work though, mainly due to my welding ability (lack of that is)

 

[ruwfo]

SA63,
Did you try the Mikuni carb yet?, as my 510 (86) has the same
problems starting, & i usually have to jump it too.

My bike came with a flat slide Mikuni carb, but because it was
such a basket case, i figured i'd go with the stock type dellorto.

My motors full rebuilt & runs good once i bump start it, except
it pops on deceleration, but i'll be damned, it usually never wants
to kick start.

I'd like to get it to kick start before i drop my motor into a
81 250CR frame.

Husky John

 

[SA63]

my bike is starting very well cold, usually 2nd kick, 1 kick with choke then no choke. I must turn up the idle by 2 1/4 turns though.

Hot- No probs if within 5 mins of stopping. After that it can get ugly...I always need to turn up the idle..If you get it right straight away its ok, but you can flood it easily, then need to clear it (throttle wfo)... by then Im im swearing, the race on the line is ready to go and $%%@^%!!! there is a lot to be said for technique

My mates bike kicks over and starts at very low revs no problem . All is the same except he has a SEM that is strippped of all plastic and rewound I assume.
My stator cover has no hole for timing so i havent put a light on it, but it is almost fully clockwise in the cover (so retarded)
I found the needle position is sensitive too. runs like crap if not in the middle.
I have no pops or anything like that.
Havent tried the mikuni but I have a spare vm 38 and the specs(and jets) to suit an xl 500 as a starting point. Ill try this one day as there is no cost..
Two race meetings back my bike died just before a 4th gear jump, feet off the the pegs and a big nut slap (ouch!!) -couldnt start it so I parked it and the next day it just started so dont quite trust the electrics so i am keen on trying an alternative ignition as the bikes performance is great with the dellorto.
A guy in spain can rewind the sems and promises they are improved, ($E 190)and Michel Dufayards Ducati ignition method is a good way to go as well, but apparently the flywheel has a different crank taper, so need to recut it which means splitting the crank..or use a later crank.. headache..

Its just not quite bad enough for me to have done anything about it.. have been playing with rear shocks and pretty pretty stuff like the mufflers, but our off season is coming up and Ill keep playing..

Would be great to hear from anyone out there who is running alternative carburetion or ignition? And old timer here to me the lectron flatslides worked well (no jets! - just a screw thing)

 

[fran...k.]

I can see these air cooled four strokers are rather popular here. I have a fair amount of experience with the 1988 te510 which probably has the starting characteristics. I find it wonderfully easy to start cold. If you forget to turn the gas on and run it dry it is extremely hard to start, If you stall out it might be hard to start if you stall out three times in a particurlarly nasty spot it almost cetainly will be very hard to start. If you fall over or get it totally upside down you might wish it was a two stroke. I had a 1999 te410 to ride for a while it is the same brand of carb but has an accellerator pump. That thing was worse, Eventually I found upon stalling the thing was just to wait patiently for about two minutes then it would start with only time and not energy lost. Probably the best thinng to do is go right to a real modern carb with the hot start button. I might also note that my 1988 of a number of occasions backfired and blew the carb off. If you don't have a screwdriver just put the clamp in your pocket and you can get it back on and continue. I really doubt the issue is related to the ignition. Just this year I filed off the ridge on the kickstarter which makes a hole in your boot, (The one on the end which sticks up more than the rest) maybe we can have a hole in the boot thread some day, I wish I had done that a long time ago and might do it to some of my others next time I ride them.

Fran

 

[SA63]

A couple of minor mentions:

As far as I know the k& ns paper elements are not available so I have been using a maico 80/81 filter and cage which is a pretty good fit, but are reaadily available and cheap (and conventional- foam & oil). I never worried about wire mesh/gauze but this was my answer as the u tube of the 510 back firing and catching on fire was at the back of my mind! So maybe the aluminium flywire is a bit coarse, but easy enough to change later..(hopefully not after the fire..!)

The other mod over the summer..(apart from revalving shocks again..aaarrgh)!!! was to pay attention to the dellorto as as it got warmer (28-30 degrees)the bike was getting harder to start slowly but surely... So what fixed it was carefull attention to the slide which is the heavy brass ktm/huasberg slide, rear was filed away a little more than standard and notch at the front of the slide opened up a little more than standard, and its back to within 3 kicks starting now.. It was too rich, but standard jetting.

So our vmx season kicks off again soon and looking forward to riding

fixed on by threading with fine copper wire

I also swapped some maico stuff for this..

.

 

[motortechniek]

I'm using the ducati ignition, latest version whit the blak ignition coil whit integrated cdi, start smooth and gives some extra power.
An 1981 Maico airfilter and cage will fit in the original airbox. I now run over 3 race seasuns (15 races each) and go regulary practicing and still the same conrod sercet: I use the 570 cranckshaf and engine cases from the 1996 model whit the exterior oil feed pipe to the conrod, and most important i change oil every time i have go riding the bike.

 

[motortechniek]

 

[tallone66]

I have the 38 flat slide on mine.... can be fussy on the cold start, but hot start is normally 1 kick****************************************!. was going to convert back to the dellorto for the resto, but judging from the comments in all post I have seen, I will not bother.
I will go and check the jetting, as it has been some time that I have done tuning. Runs great, popping took some time to get out though.
Pilot jet is a 35 for certain, I will check the main and needle put the info up asap. The needle will be changed though, 5th clip from top, meaning should be next one richer. Main was pretty good though, nice throttle response good burn on plug using throttle chop test.
Awesome job on your exaust, looks great, another project I will have to do as well.

Cheers

 

[tallone66]

Kewl pis.... dont think I will be doing much MX with mine, no VMX where I live. Might try some enduro if I can find some close. For most parts, fire roads and trail riding, with the occasiona drag against new 450's that are long enough so I can out top end them... WOOOOOHOOOOOO

 

[motortechniek]

I got the delorto carb on mine, needle in the middle position, main jet 180, smal jet 62, choke jet 60, i have to check the throtle slide, it has different types as wel and some off them are no good to start the engine, have to check the accelleratorpump jet as well.

 

[SA63]

what gearing are you running motortechniek? I have 14 /53 and 3rd gear starts are ok.
I have had some clutch issues after racing dirt track - hard on the the engine, lot of revving ( standard clutch)
So are you using 570/610 clutch as well?
I am building a motor now from the old one in the pics with later crank and case with 570 coil and 610 stator

 

[motortechniek]

I have the 5 speed gearbox from the 570/610 tc engine, compleet whit clutch, sprockets are 14/52 and 2e gear gives garanteed holeshot. i Have the cilinderhead flowed and have the camshaft regrinded to more race profile, the ducati ignition whit black cdi intigrated coil. The barel is bored to 91.5 mm and nicasilled, so i can drive a whole season whit the same piston and changing piston over wintertime, the bore still stays ok.
recently i build a second engine and have the cilinder resleeved to 98 mm ans also nicasiled, now i got a full 570 cc, the engine bottem i used for this engine is from a 2002 tc570 whit oil pump, the cranckshafte and flywheel lightened, to have quicker revving. I just had a fiew practising day whit the bike, and is is very powerfull, the sprockets on this engine are 14/52, whit a 4 speed gearbox starting goos very well in second gear, and neerly the hole circuit can be done in 3e gear.

cheers

 

[SA63]

Is your sleeve aluminium? I understand nikasil cannot stick to the steel liner?
Where did you get the aluminium liner if thats what it has?