13,14/50 gearing, chain length (links), axle placement- effecting chasis?

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

I am doing some maintenance and a few upgrades to my 09TE450:

I recently purchased a 50 tooth sprocket and a 13 and 14 tooth counter sprockets. The new chain I have was a 120- which I have taken down to a 116. (stock was 13/47 with a 112 link). I haven’t tested/ridden since the new chain/sprockets and am still doing other maintenance in prep for the rest of the fall season- 3 dual sports left: KMSR dual sport- West bend WI, “The Bucky” dual sport Madison WI, and LAB2V- district 37 dual sport.

I know the 2010’s have a shorter swing arm so they are probably no comparison to my old or new set up.

Here’s my question- How many links are people using with 14/50 and 13/50- 114 links or 116 links? and Is it possible to run 114 links with 13/50 and 14/50 with a 2008 or 2009 (250-510)? I ask because right now 116 seems as though it will work just fine in terms of clearance and range of adjustment. But my axle is further back on the swing arm then it was before {slightly like 3/8”} (tire is further from the mudflap) thus lengthening the wheelbase. When I swap to 13/50 for tight woods it will further lengthen the wheel base. This is good for gearing BUT does the opposite to the dynamics of the chassis one would want in tight woods. Maybe I will not notice, or will adapt to the slight difference. Maybe adding some preload in the rear would balance this out…. thanks for any input- even if its just to tell me I am over thinking some of this

 

[pvduke]

another bike i had, i kept on hand two sets of wheels, chains and front sprockets. one set for gnarly tight stuff and one for more open stuff.

the main thing is making sure your tire dont eat the mudflap.

the axle moving up or back will have a minor effect on your handling, if at all that youll notice and the gearing will make the biggest difference.

and i wouldnt adjust my suspension trying to compensate for the wheelbase difference unless the sag is grossly affected, which it never was on mine as i ran my axle approx in the same place in the slots for both set ups.

get two chains and mate them to the sprockets youll be using and keep them oriented.

the lentgh of chain is dictated by where youll want your wheel in the axle slots. i tired to run them in the middle'sih to compensate for wear so i'd have some adjustment/in case ya need a trail side repair.

 

[ray_ray]

The rear axle position and sprockets will make a difference on the handling \ traction \ feel of the bike .... I was reading this stuff on the web ... sprocket sizes change the angle of the forces that hold the tire to the ground if my memory is correct ... I'm not sure if any suspension changes are necessary if your sag and stuff are already correct ... squat \ anti-squat play a big role in traction apparently ...

I run a 13t/14t \ 50t configuration now with one chain ... the 14t really helped open up the CR spacing on the faster trails \ roads ... Feels very different than the 13t ...ESP on tracks... Changes up greatly what gear I go over a jump in ...

A 13t/47t combination sounds like it might be a good combination to me ... but you'll have to get it on and see how it actually feels ...

I'm going to a 15t front to speed things up on the road more...

PS -- Here is an article on some of these forces and it explains the aspects on different sprocket sizes... Nothing here about mounting a FS on the axle pivot ... Not sure why that aspect was not covered...

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0404_motorcycle_traction_geometry/index.html

This one is a little funky with hand drawn pics

http://www.tootechracing.com/Engine torque - Suspension.htm

 

[RLW]

My '05 came stock with 14/50, but I can (& do) switch between 13-14-15 tooth front using stock chain.
Not sure of length, or that that matters in this case, but with 14/50 it is in middle of adjustment range.

Dropping down to 13T front does push it back some but I have not noticed any tight trail handling or turning changes. If anything I thing it might actually help weight the front end a tiny bit more or better bite, and not quite as light in the front end on steep climbs in a positive way.

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

thanks guys I apprieciate the comments and experiences,

I don't know if the 2005 and 2009 have the same length swingarm either- but with 14/50 and 116 links I am more towards the rear of adjustment (not in the middle). I will look at it again and see if going to 114 is possible- I will most likely primarily use 13 and 14 counter sprockets probably won't use a 15 ever.

I may not notice the difference in wheel base I see now- however I am also counting on this chain lengthening (stretching) after it is broken in and when I use the 13 tooth.

I see now the advantage of changing rear sproockets with the same chain for tight woods theoretically- since then the wheelbase will shrten versus lengthen when going with a smaller counter sprocket to achieve the same gear ratio.

Generally, Wheel base- effects turning and stability: shorter improves turning, longer imporves stability, much like the effect of trail in the front end. If the difference is due to length of the swingarm- axel to swing arm pivot, this also has an effect on your rear shock's tuning because it effects the leverage applied. However big or small. Like I said I may not notice, but I really like how my bike has been so I am reluctant to accept any changes no matter how small.

The 2010 has a 15mm shorter swingarm than the earlier models such as my 2009- this is to improve the turning abilities. To improve tight cornering where the bike may feel like it wants to stand up in the middle of a turn too early rather than smoothly sweep and stand at the end of the turn (in theory). With that 15mm (equivalend to about 5/8") they still have the same range of adjustment of where the rear axel sits in the swingarm. Some may set up their axel closer or further back within the range of adjustment from center to achieve different outcomes. OR some may get ramdom placement depending on what chain and sprocket combos they have and only thinking about achieving the proper gearing- not also the other factors I am such as wheel base and leverage on the shock.

I will test this out- once my maintenence is done, to see if I notice an effect. I guess part of me believes 114 might get me to the point of hitting the mud flap with 14/50 now. but might not once the chain stretches. I think next time I buy sprockets I will get a 51 rear spocket to draw the axel a little closer to the swing arm pivot.

This is all preliminary though, I am just in set up mode and excited for my upcomming rides. Ultimately, my bike is very stable and if I could spend some of the stability in adjustment on steering (in terms of wheel base) I would. Right now this chain and sprocket set up will add more stability.

So if anyone has a 114 link chain and 14/50 sprocket combo and does not eat mudflaps weekly let me know- I'll take 2 links out now without any testing.

 

[bbcmat]

I ran 13 / 50 and 14 / 50 with the 114 links and stock tire - no mudflap issues.

My fav gearing was 14/50 for all but the tightest BMX style hillside stuff.

I now run 13/45 and 15/45 on a 112 chain with a Pirelli m43 tire. No mudflap issues. The small countershaft is a little taller than the 14/50, while the 15/45 is very nice for the under 120kms/h street running i do. One chain - both styles of riding. I notice the rear suspension does not extend as much under short bursts of power, or squat as much under engine breaking with the small sprocket combination.

MAT

MAT

 

[ray_ray]

Thats an interesting sprocket combination (13/45) ... This should still pull 1st gear pretty good? And is taller than 14/50? Never tried the 12/45 gearing?

I'm digging the 14/50 setup also ... but on tracks, I'm gonna go back to a 13/50 and try that one again ...

From what I gathered from the articles above, the swingarm is sort of a lever and the chain sort of exerts force on it using the sprockets ... the smaller sprockets may be taking some of the leverage angle out of chain so the rear end movements are less (<-- not too educated of a guess ... please correct as needed)

This is the power \ versatility of these CR 6-speeds that is over looked by most out here complaining about too low a top-end speed.

 

[husky bom]

09 te 450 i run 13/51 this has brought the rear wheel forward thus giving it a shorter drive an yes it dose make a difference to how the bike handles better in the tight stuff

 

[andy1103]

HUSKYnXJnWI,

Not on topic but I couldn't help but notice the rides you have coming up. I am new Husky owner (first Husky & first post here). I'll be riding the Kewaskum ride this weekend and looking to meet some people. I just got back from a weekend of some of the gnarlyest single track I've ever seen and love my Husky! 2006 TE450. Can't wait for this weekend!

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

Thanks guys- I did take it down to 114 links- It clears the mudflap with the proper tension on the chain- but that 50 tooth is close to the guard as well. I will run the 13 for the first hundred miles or so which will give more clearance while the chain stretches. Its fine though. I also have a new chain guard on the way- TM designs.

Hey Andy- I'll be there and I am sure I'll see ya, its a fun ride.

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

Figured I'd come back and throw up some pics... 114 links is ideal for me and 13/50 14/50 sprockets.... thought I'd put that to rest- I put on 150 miles or so of mixxed offroad/ ds works great.

taking links off is easy- I grind the swedge off the rivet and then press off with a chain press- you could get away with just grinding- or a chain press- but I make life easy for my chain press...

Ok here's what 14/50 with 116 links looks like on a 09TE450- brand new chain and sprockets- with manual/ proper chain slack (135mm)

Ok here's what 14/50 with 114 links looks like on a 09TE450- brand new chain and sprockets- with manual/ proper chain slack (135mm)

and {just thought I'd through this inhere...} here's a standard pliers I modded to become a "master link pliers" I just ground down one side of the pliers face so it is narrow like a needle nose and it is used to grab the pin. If you have ever struggled with an array of screw drivers or pliers and results were unsatisfactory- this thing worked like it was "made for it" seriously line it up and squeeze- easy on and off master links.... I expected it to work but not that good!

and yea... that sprocket is from MOTOSPORTZ

 

[Dave19]

I just had my first taste of a 510 TXC in the tight woods... WOW**************************************** I'm running stock with a 12/50, and 1st gear is on launch mode. At least I think it's stock.... Would going up to a 13/50 make it better? I was thinking about going down to give it more top end (54/56mph) and hopefully give me more room to play in first. 3rd is a good gear but it tends to get away from ya if your're not ready for it!!! Any helpfull hints?