125-200cc 09 Wr 125 Bog/Performance Solved?

[gsxr1000user]

Little R

Have you checked the head to see if it was machined to match the larger bore size or machined at all? Mistakes happen and if it was not machined so that the squish band matches the larger bore your compression is too high and two steps in the band? Just a thought I dont know much. Brainstorming with you.
plug
_====_
__--- ---__
Pisssssssssstoon
| |
| |
| |
larger boooore

 

[wallybean]

EG machines all the BB heads to mimick stock compression if you are going to use pump gas. He will do the same but with less squish room if you are going to run AV gas. This was well done on mine. Now a lot of other details were completely screwed up so you have to take the good with the bad when dealing with someone that deals with that kind of volume.

 

[R_Little]

Have you checked the head to see if it was machined to match the larger bore size or machined at all? Mistakes happen and if it was not machined so that the squish band matches the larger bore your compression is too high and two steps in the band? Just a thought I dont know much. Brainstorming with you.
plug
_====_
__--- ---__
Pisssssssssstoon
| |
| |
| |
larger boooore

The head on my EG 144 came back machined.

Funny, the head on my FBF135 appears to be just a stock head and it does not ping at all on pump gas.

 

[NWRider]

What about us guys who already have a PWK? dartyppyt makes it sound like the TMX can be better. Has anyone else tried the RM needle and found it to be as good or better then a PWK? I don't ride on the top end much so I don't know if I would like the TMX but I really don't like the fit of the PWK so I will give it a try if I hear some more good reports.

 

[crille74]

What about us guys who already have a PWK? dartyppyt makes it sound like the TMX can be better. Has anyone else tried the RM needle and found it to be as good or better then a PWK? I don't ride on the top end much so I don't know if I would like the TMX but I really don't like the fit of the PWK so I will give it a try if I hear some more good reports.

I have the rm needle and it works great, no way i gonna spend some money on a Pwk as its work now, it pulls real hard from bottom to topp, amazing mid power.

 

[gsxr1000user]

What A Shame

People question those that do when they are doing nothing. Great work Darty.

 

[rockdancer]

I wouldnt have bought the PWK either but I still dont think the Mikuni is a proven perfromer in the low end - for technical tracks.
I would also like to see whether the Mikuni can match the PWK in the low to mid range . After shelling out for the PWK I cant see myself buying a bigger slide and a richer needle - thats more like $250 . I am not even sure if this fix is the same for the TMX which I have - not TMXX
I want to ride the bike with both carbs on the same day on same hill/track- but till someone can show otherwise Id stick with the PWK for trail riding . It may need a bit of work to dial in the PWK for top end as well though.
I was going to get my bike dynoed but to the average Joe access to a dyno for long periods of time is very expensive . I may do this when I get the Keihn running perfect. So a true comparison can be made.

 

[NWRider]

The old TMX is not as good as the PWK. The Honda guys also swap to a keihin. But the newer one is used on bikes where people do not complain about the carb so it makes me wonder if it just needs the right needle.

 

[crille74]

The old TMX is not as good as the PWK. The Honda guys also swap to a keihin. But the newer one is used on bikes where people do not complain about the carb so it makes me wonder if it just needs the right needle.

Exaktly, right needle and it works great.

 

[gsxr1000user]

I dont't think this thread is really about which is better, just how to get what you already have working. If my 09 wr125 that I bought in 9/10 had a PWK that had this problem I would not change carbs before I even made the first payment on my bike. Truth is I think Husky should have included another needle with the update kit or were they testing at 3000+ ft with Euro grade gas? My KTM 300 has a PWK and it works fine and I don't care if it would have had another BRAND of carb as long as it runs well. But I buy bikes to ride not fu--k with. In a perfect would we would not be doing this crap. So, if you have already taken care of any complaint carb wise and like the way your bike runs go ride it. This is not a competition about which carb is better it is about how to get what we purchased running correctley. And dyno test PWK vs. TMX would not show much anyway I think(but am willing to try). Again, my 05 yz125 runs great in WV single track with a TMX bring your anything carbed 125 and see my rear fender-thats competition.

 

[pahusky]

My key thought here is...again, for what it's worth.

If this bike had been delivered off the floor with anything close to darty's setup it would have been considered right. The bike would have had a great baseline setup to be tweaked by the buyer for the buyer's location.

It would have been nice if it ran this good when Dirt Rider tested it!

No need for carb changes, etc. Just standard small jetting changes, normal stuff...

I, for one, would have been ecstatic to have bought the bike running this good. Time could have been better spent working on other areas and riding.:ride:

I do understand and appreciate the seat of the pants and guts intuition as to whether or not the bike is performing up to expectations. I also understand the desire to see this on paper. It seems the lack of a good range of Mikuni needles put someone in the hay stack looking for the proverbial needle…

Andy has had the chance to run the snot out of this bike the last 2 days. His collarbone is doing better and he finally feels some confidence in the power delivery. We are going to attribute this to the 'RM' needle recommendation.

Once at a friend's hare scramble type farm track and once at a friends private moto track.

Current setup… '09 WR125, the update kit and Mikuni with…
470m, 45p, air screw out 1 1/2 turns, CHY - middle clip, #5 slide, stock/silver PV springs, FMF combo pipe/silencer, 40:1, Maxima Super M

Pulls hard and consistent bottom to top, will work great on trail/track.
Plug looks a little dark, safe range for sure. Even after the higher rev moto runs.

Its real close...Andy would be happy leaving it just the way it is.

Watching and listening, and my seat of the pants need to tweak. I still have a few options to consider…
- Lowering the needle 1 notch, all else the same?
- 460m with everything the same as above?
- might end up? 460m, 47.5 pilot, CHY 2nd clip down and watch the plug.

I have the PWK, a pile of jets/needles and the Power Now insert; in a box.
I was all over the place and could not find the spot…I'm sure there is a spot, but where? And now that I have a ''Carb'' working I'm going to run with it…

The bike has a sprocket combo of 13/50; we will be getting the 52 rear to try out. I am also contemplating going to a good standard chain in lieu of the o-ring.

The east coast is currently getting hammered with rain. We planned on hitting a local hare scramble on Sunday, we'll see. The bikes cleaned up, IMS tank, Cycra hand guards, Motosportz Stabilizer and Andy's new graphics. I'm going to work on some air box mods for the mud. I'll try to post a picture this weekend.

And by the way; it's Friday... Everyone have a great weekend…

 

[dartyppyt]

Guys your turning this into a oil or tire thread!

Here are the facts:

I buy an 09 WR125 from Hall's jetted perfect.

I get it home it bogs after it gets warmer out during the day.

I race it, and during the race the temps outside rise. It starts bogging, I get stuck on a hill because of the bog, and I lose 3 places. Okay, I have to adjust my airscrew all the time? What's up with this? Carry a screw driver while racing? Heck Dirt Rider was on the money.

I took everyone's advise, bought Walt's spring kit, bought PWK 38 with JD needles.

I had to buy extra main jets and pilots but the PWK runs perfect, as others.

I put a new ring and piston in my son's RM 125. I broke it in and the thing shreds my Husky. Now, I am on a mission.

This started as a father/son challenge, RM versus Husky. Not a PWK vs TMXX.

I bought his RM125 in 04 or 05. Thing is jetted too rich, fouls plugs, terrible throttle response.

I tuned it with needles, jets, pilots. It rips, shim his powervalve spring and get the FMF pipe!

I sit there scratching my head why RM outperforms Husky with a TMXX on it. Same carbs?

I put my carb with his jets/pilot on RM. RM runs like Husky?

I put my carb back on with my jets and use his needle and slide. More low end, more mid, more top but running lean, but it's off.

I buy a 5.0 Slide and all the RM needles and tons of pilots/mains.

I work all summer in my off hours screwing with a bike that runs good but is an underperformer. I have been working up to 60 hours a week/travelin with work, putting up 1200 ft of horse fencing, residing/re-roofing a building, for more horse stalls.

Finally, in August, I hit the mother load. I found the right RM needle/slide/main/pilot/powervalve spring combo.

I used the jetting and slide combo, so if I want to share my knowledge with anyone else, you basically use the parts from your power up kits,buy a $10 needle and Walt's $60 spring kit. And of course, you might have to jet to your elevation.

Husky performs like RM but RM is quicker out of the hole because of the flywheel affect. But for Harescrambles, I'll take the flywheel affect.

I let son ride Husky. He says what the heck did you do to your bike, dad! I just laughed. The Husky now beats the RM after 3rd gear!

Several of us get criticized for sharing this work thru PM's, getting great results and not sharing it? But hey, we are getting ripping bikes for $10 plus some fine tuning with mains and pilots to our elevations. Actually, there are a couple good guys beyond the needle doing more work. I am now learning from them! These are all great things.

So we post the fix and now it turns into an oil and tire thread? That's why I didn't post it in the first place, cause I knew this would happen.

I get PM's of guys not happy with the PWK and now want help to go with the TMXX and RM needle? I say give it a shot! If you have the parts what's $10?

They are both great carbs, period! I just went the easier route because I was alot closer to tune the TMXX plus I could use the RM carb for the next setting on deck.

Why don't someone, take $450 bucks out of their pockets and 3 mos of their time to fix the PWK for the 125? This includes getting rid of that little trials riding/throttle wack bog/more mid and a heck of alot more top end. I think there is power yet to be found in that PWK.

I don't know but all I can tell you is, I have great bottom, mid and top end. Heck, I don't know, what we'd pick up? 3+ hp? No bog, don't have to mess with the airscrew! Yeah!

Guy's, we are good guys trying to get these 125's better!

All my past bikes/cars were great performers, they always will be. I have been playing with bikes since I was 12.

I ported, polished and carbed a Husky 390cr that would pass a KTM 500 like he was sitting still.

Dungey would of loved my RMZ 250. It kick over like a 500 and would blow your ball cap off your head clear across the garage.

And I had a Suzuki TM 100 with a 125 piston in it, but no one ever knew!

Darin

Thank's to guys like GSXR1000, CRILLE74 and PAKTM for all their work and support.

 

[gsxr1000user]

PaKTM, thanks for backing me up. Exactly the point we are trying to get across-to Husky for selling it like this and all our troubles. I did not even ride my bike with the o-ring on it. Still have the new take off. 125's need help and friction does not help. Miss the longevity and few adjustment on the chain though.

 

[Motosportz]

Darty, I for one really appreciate your hard work and info. I could care less if i sell one more PWK, it was and is a good solution but it looks as if you might have come up with a better solution for the stock carb, good on you. I will buy and try the needle. Thank you.

 

[dartyppyt]

Kelly,

I plan on working, as soon as time permits on the PWK. I think it will still outperform the TMXX some day. I just need a break to get some racing in.

However, do you have the resources to put a TMXX kit together? Maybe with someone making needles for us (They're always on backorder)? We need a range of 3 needles, the 5.0 slide (we all have the 4.0 slide), and a handful of pilots and mains? Would be helpful if Walt's spring kit was included.

Would be nice to have a one stop shopping place!

More pioneers are needed out there for tuning these needles to 144kits/vs the PWK. I think Walt is on board for that and you'd be perfect, as well.

Darin

 

[mac37]

dartyppyt,
Am I missing something? Why did you delete your post? Please put up your info so we can read it without going through 20+ consecutive posts and piece together the information. One thing I know for sure is you don't need that little white spacer that's between the throttle cable and slide. As far as jetting, any help is appreciated.

Removed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by dartyppyt; 09-29-2010 at 07:00 PM..

 

[pvduke]

It would have been nice if it ran this good when Dirt Rider tested it!

the WR delivered to DR was perfect, when it was delivered to them...THEY screwed with the jetting and PV and made it run like sht, so bad it was barely ridable. i called them out on this in another thread & on their web-site and this issue was put to bed.

*

my '09 WR is rock stock, sans an FMF sparky. totally rock stock. it flat rips and all i had to do was jet it. bike came with jets (mains way too small admitedly), needles and two slides in a box. see jetting thread for more info. will the Kehin work better? maybe. never tried one on this bike so i can't knock it. the Mik works ok so far so....

 

[BillO]

One thing I know for sure is you don't need that little white spacer that's between the throttle cable and slide. As far as jetting, any help is appreciated.

My feeling would be, yes you do! Imagine a hard landing from a drop or jump, or hitting a square edged obstacle or a log at speed and with the gas at least partially on. The slide could get jolted upward an compress the spring. Without that little white 'spacer' (actually, it's a retainer that keeps the cable in the slot) there is a very good chance the cable will release from the slide. If your next obstacle is a jump face or ledge climb, that could hurt a lot - physically. If you were racing, it would almost certainly cause a DNF or at best seriously hurt your results.

 

[Motosportz]

My feeling would be, yes you do! Imagine a hard landing from a drop or jump, or hitting a square edged obstacle or a log at speed and with the gas at least partially on. The slide could get jolted upward an compress the spring. Without that little white 'spacer' (actually, it's a retainer that keeps the cable in the slot) there is a very good chance the cable will release from the slide. If your next obstacle is a jump face or ledge climb, that could hurt a lot - physically. If you were racing, it would almost certainly cause a DNF or at best seriously hurt your results.

The spacer, like the main jet, slide and pilot jet are all to restrict the bike and get it through emissions for Europe. It needs removed or you loose haft the throttle. No issues removing it, it was meant to be removed. It is a throttle limiter.

 

[BillO]

The spacer, like the main jet, slide and pilot jet are all to restrict the bike and get it through emissions for Europe. It needs removed or you loose haft the throttle. No issues removing it, it was meant to be removed. It is a throttle limiter.

We must be talking about a different thing then... The only white thing I have in my carb does not limit how far the throttle opens. If you have something in there that limits throttle opening, then yes, I agree, take it out. Be sure though, that it is not acting as the cable retainer too. If it is, maybe you could cut it down.


Edit: Is this only on European bikes, or are you seeing this in the US too? Does someone have a picture of the offending widget?