08 TE450 Fouling Plugs?

[racer514]

Yep, 08 TE450, Power Up, sensor removed, etc. Fouling plugs like an old 2 stroke. Started happening more as the weather got cooler. Tried to get out today (32 degrees F) and only made it 2 miles before it started sputtering and stalling. Took her back home, changed the plug and she ran better. Ran aroudn the neighborhood for a while and in less than 2 miles, I started feeling the stumble again. Brought her back home, saw the plug look like it was starting to foul and went back to my pajamas.

I had it at the dealer at the end of the season. Told him what was happening and he said it was a little too lean on the bottom and I think went up two points (not up to date on the lingo but ther are three numbers near 100?) Anyway, apparently its a lot worse now. The more legit dealer (Ferracci) is about 2.5 hours away and I am thinking I should just take it to someone with more expertise in the matter.

I guess I am looking for feedback and also have a few questions like... would running the o2 sensor, although lose power, make it run any better (considering reliability over power)? Also, would a Power Commander with auto tune help me from having to go the dealer to deal with this?

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

1st yes a PCV and Auto Tune will help find the right fueling for your needs. You of course need to learn that system and work with it. I think the 2008 benefits more than the 09/10 simply because you can't adjust CO1, CO2, CO3 with the 08.

But as to your Problem now: I don't understand the exchange with the dealer who hooked it up to Ibeat and the current problem. What did you tell them that inspired them to enrichen it then? Or what were they basing the thought of it being lean from (the numbers) (performance) (air fuel meter)? Seems now you are actually having a fueling issue- making me think you werent' Lean then as guessed. Every bike is going to have different ideal Fb settings or CO settings- they can't just give everyone the same numbers cause it works great on 1 or 2 bikes (I am assuming that's what happened- sorry if I am Way off base). If they will work with you and correct it take it back- If you don't have confidence in who your dealing with- it might be worth the trip to Ferracci's. IBeat will indicate if there's another issue as well.

If you put the Lambda sensor back in it probably won't resolve your issues or make it a more reliable system- but it might lean it out at certain times and possibly decrease some fouling- but that would be a bandaid effect to the issue and you'd probably have poor response and performance.

Other thoughts: make sure your fuel and airfilter are in good shape.

 

[racer514]

1st yes a PCV and Auto Tune will help find the right fueling for your needs. You of course need to learn that system and work with it. I think the 2008 benefits more than the 09/10 simply because you can't adjust CO1, CO2, CO3 with the 08.

But as to your Problem now: I don't understand the exchange with the dealer who hooked it up to Ibeat and the current problem. What did you tell them that inspired them to enrichen it then? Or what were they basing the thought of it being lean from (the numbers) (performance) (air fuel meter)? Seems now you are actually having a fueling issue- making me think you werent' Lean then as guessed. Every bike is going to have different ideal Fb settings or CO settings- they can't just give everyone the same numbers cause it works great on 1 or 2 bikes (I am assuming that's what happened- sorry if I am Way off base). If they will work with you and correct it take it back- If you don't have confidence in who your dealing with- it might be worth the trip to Ferracci's. IBeat will indicate if there's another issue as well.

If you put the Lambda sensor back in it probably won't resolve your issues or make it a more reliable system- but it might lean it out at certain times and possibly decrease some fouling- but that would be a bandaid effect to the issue and you'd probably have poor response and performance.

Other thoughts: make sure your fuel and airfilter are in good shape.

IF I can't adjust the CO1, 2, or 3 on my 08, what were the three numbers that he was able to adjust on my 08?

I don't understand the exchange either and I do think he was just setting my bike to what the numbers he has adjusted other bikes to and not listening to my needs (I told him about the fouling when it wasn't as bad as it is now after he adjusted it). I'va always been a carburator guy and do my own work and if I were adjusting it, I would have leaned it but since he is the dealer, I just went along with it (second guessing the whole time). So I think you were right on base, thus the reason I will take it elsewhere this time.

Air filter is fresh every two rides (new filter was put in for this ride) and where is the fuel filter? I checked the fuel pump and it did not have the problem others have had so I am confident that is not the problem. Either way, a dirty or clogged fuel filter or even the fuel pump problem would not have caused plugs to "rich" foul.

 

[huskyte310]

Don't forget the 08 don't have a thermostate. If you ride it on the road and it's cold out it's on enrichment mode.

 

[racer514]

Don't forget the 08 don't have a thermostate. If you ride it on the road and it's cold out it's on enrichment mode.

No thermostat? Enrichment mode?

 

[huskyte310]

I think thay started with thermostat in 2010. With the efi bikes when you first start the bike the fuel is in enrichment mode until you get the coolant hot the thermostat keeps it hot in cold wether. I would take it to the person who knows his stuff.

 

[moto66]

Hi. For what it's worth - and my knowledge of EFI is real limited as my first EFI bike - but I had the PU fitted to my 09 SMR and ran it for some 300 miles after that. Garaged up for this winter, pulled the plug recently and it was jet black. Now I've also gutted the cans and esp the RHS one was also real black. And dripping with condensation. The cat was also real black in this can esp. My thoughts were the PU is flawed unless you either fit a free-flowing pipe or modify the OE items. It just runs too rich, unable to exhaust the fuel gases and fouls up. Sorry prob a shitty guess but have you recently fitted the PU? and are running the stock can?

 

[racer514]

Arrow exhaust and the PU was done before I took delivery. It was never really right and seems to have gotten worse since I had it "adjusted".

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

IF I can't adjust the CO1, 2, or 3 on my 08, what were the three numbers that he was able to adjust on my 08?

They adjusted "FB" number(s)...with Ibeat: forgive me for my explanation but I don't have an 08 and my understanding of the 08's are only from reading: Basically FB1 can be enrichended or leaned and when adjusted it adjusts the whole throttle range- think of a fuel map on a graph like a HorsePower dyno readout- then just add fuel or take away fuel with a line that parallels the 1st one. (you can’t lean out the bottom and enrichen the top) SO you can't focus on lower mid or open throttle like you can with The 09-10s. I have read over and over that while it is possible to change the FB2 and FB3 settings it has questionable results if any. SO this is why I say the 08s benefit from the PCV w/ AT more than the 09-10s- least with them you can adjust CO1 (“like” a pilot jet) CO2 (“like” a needle) and CO3 (“like” a main jet)

No thermostat? Enrichment mode?

For clarification, 08-10 TE’s do not have Thermostats- There is no technical term “enrichment mode” other than to explain EFI self adjusting capabilities. The closest thing that seems to match those topics is that these bikes do have “coolant temp sensors” which are variable resistors that tell the ECU a number which indicates whether the coolant is hot or cold. If its cold or hot it will adjust the fuel mixture to match the needs taking other variables into consideration as well.

That said- the coolant sensor can go bad- I beat will be able to tell you pretty quickly- the reason I did not mention is because it was recently hooked up to Ibeat. Generally- If the bike starts normal and the fan is off then when the bike reaches ~ normal operating temps- the fan comes on. Its probably not a problem. Though, many have been found to go bad randomly and prematurely- I haven’t had issues but keep a spare. You can test this with an ohmmeter- (thread in tech section explains)

MOTO66- Yes its strange that for the SM- powerup is done with Cats installed. Generally- I’d expect the cats to get clogged with carbon and the more that happens the "richer" the AF will become until its so rich of a mixture you go through plugs and poor running. The powerup mode fuel settings are set up more rich- counting on an exhaust that lets the motor breath without the cat- So I agree- SM’s were given mismatched settings/equipment to a degree. Cats just don't work great with Perfomance bikes- but you could lean it out with a PCV-AT or with Ibeat to a point where it has less effect and the Cat can keep up and cause less of a problem- but you'll never see the same performance from a bike with a cat as the same bike without. Racer514 fortunately is on a TE- so that should be fine- as he has the Arrow Power up pipe not the stock one.

Racer514- Yea- I'd just take it to another shop- Ferraccis' or somewhere good- tell them everything- they should be able to set you up.

 

[moto66]

HUSKYnXJnWI, you're a handy guy to know when it comes to EFI!

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

HUSKYnXJnWI, you're a handy guy to know when it comes to EFI!

Thanks for the kind words Moto66 - I try to help if I can/ short of speculation (hopefully). I am only reporting/answering basic stuff that I have read or come to understand from reading other's experiences and inferring from and reporting my own experiences. I would consider myself more of a librarian than knowledgeable. Cafe Husky has had many people making great contributions from dealers to very knowledgeable owners. Many new owners of the 2008s explored EFI successfully and sometimes painfully paved the way to where we are now at understanding and gaining confidence in EFI.

CafeHusky rocks the casbahh!

 

[moto66]

Thanks for the kind words Moto66 - I try to help if I can/ short of speculation (hopefully). I am only reporting/answering basic stuff that I have read or come to understand from reading other's experiences and inferring from and reporting my own experiences. I would consider myself more of a librarian than knowledgeable. Cafe Husky has had many people making great contributions from dealers to very knowledgeable owners. Many new owners of the 2008s explored EFI successfully and sometimes painfully paved the way to where we are now at understanding and gaining confidence in EFI.

CafeHusky rocks the casbahh!

I agree! Excellent site and users

 

[racer514]

Talked to Ferraci today. Said they could tune it. Also started pushing the power commander right away. Also said it may be there a few weeks because Eraldo is leaving for Daytona next Thursday. If he is going to go the route of the PC, should I just get that first and try myself. I roadrace and am comfortable installing the PCs and I wont have to wait a few weeks. I looked on DJ's website and there is no listing for PCV with autotune. Only PCIII? Is this correct for an 08?

 

[racer514]

Looks like 09 offers the PCV.

 

[seymore]

Looks like 09 offers the PCV.

Dynojet only list PCV for bikes that they have actually dyno tested and they don't test prior year bikes after a product is released. Since the PCV came out in 2009, there are no 2008 model listed.

There is no problem with using the PCV & AT on 08 Husky's, it work great. You can load the Dynojet tested base map for a 08TE450 into the PCV as a starting point and let Auto-tune do the rest.

I ride a 08TE450 with a PCV and found that it added a substantial amount of overall power, especially in the mid range. I can easily lift the front wheel in 4th gear. After I got auto-tune to create a good map, I removed the O2 sensor to prevent sensor damage from getting water in the exhaust. I also found that under very aggressive riding, I could confuse the Auto-tune.

I stock all of the PCV & AT for the husky and can pre-load the 08TE450 map to make the install easier. If you're interest, you can contact me at info@semcodesigns.com

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

1- I would take the bike to get hooked up to Ibeat and properly adjusted (ferracci's would inspire confidence) for the following reasons:

You would have your TPS set Properly​

You would have a solid baseline on your settings:​

PCV&AT would not have to correct as much​

if PCV&AT ever needed to be disabled for diagnosis or otherwise you'd still have a fair running bike​

Ibeat hook up would confirm there are no other issues going on​

2- At that point- I would ride the bike and see how well it does- if its fine- and you are happy with what you have don't change a thing and don't buy any thing. At this point Feracci set up your TPS so I would take a voltage reading off the MAQS for the TPS voltage- that way you can always adjust with the hardstop- to keep your TPS accurate: AT HOME without Ibeat. If you find some specific areas you want to imporve or simply want more- get the PCV with Autotune as suggested by Scott ((Seymore)SemcoDesigns) (who's been here from the beginning and has helped everyone who has had questions and needed solutions with EFI from the start (thanks Scott). The only thing you would need Ibeat hook up for if you have the PCV is 1)TPS adjustment (covered if you write down your Closed Throttle Voltage after it was tuned by ferracci) 2) error codes and diagnostics beyond what you can figure out on your own.

This link<post #13 of "My (BBCmat's) DIYEFI tweak"> specifically explains how to check tps voltage with a voltmeter (bbcmat)

 

[racer514]

I did the tps voltage check and it was almost perfect. There Is another dealer in new York that said he can tune It while I wait (about 2 hours). I prefer Ferraci as they are a little closer and I know them better but really dont want to leave my bike for a possible 3 weeks. The name Is Rockwell Cycles. Anyone know them?

 

[racer514]

The guy from Rockwell seemed to be knowedgeable and said he has had a Few that needed to drip the bottom number Into the 80s or 90s in order to get rid of the rich condition. He said when he does that it still leans the upper part of the power band too much and he ends up using the higher two numbers to richer the top. Makes sense. He uses a exhaust gas analyzer to tune with.

 

[huskyte310]

Thats where i got my 09 te310 from. They are good people . If they can't help you or if you are not happy with them pm me. I have i-beat.

 

[racer514]

Good to hear. Shooting up there early in the am. Wanted to go today but down-pouring rain and 60mph rains with the bike in a pickup truck didnt appeal to me.