What exactly are the TE510's meant to be used for?

Looks like a gimmick but the slow cam (blue) will help smooth the low end grunt out. I had one on my TXC510 (carby). Worked well.



http://www.g2ergo.com/store/g2-throttle-cam-system/

I am in the middle of patching up (more like piecing together) a 510. The gears are the exact same spread as my 250 (which is silly imho). The one I got had a blown up engine and I put one in from an SMR (with counter balancer), hopefully that tames the vibrations. Also I have a used Rekluse I'm going to install, hopefully that and gearing it taller than stock will help tame this beast of an engine.

A steering dampener should help w/ high speed twitch, the bike has very aggressive geometry.

Finally for dual sport use, I am thinking multiple countershaft sprockets as they are fairly easy to swap out.

If I still can't tame the beast I'll just sumo it and learn to be a hooligan.

Close ratio sort of limits the bike.

My wide ratio Beta 350 RS is more fun overall.

That's about it.

Yes I see your point you can change the gearing on either bike to what you want, the only difference is the 510 will actually have the power to pull it.

You can't change the gearing without silly amounts of money and labor.
You can change the drive ratio, that is not the same thing at all. If I want the bike to do well on the road with room to stretch its legs I have to put something retarded like 16/42 on it, but then 1st gear effectively becomes what 4th is now and its completely pointless offroad. Likewise I can gear it to work at a snails pace but then you are extremely busy with the gears and and time it opens up it's just revving its tits off in 6th keeping pace

A wide ratio gearbox accomplishes the best of both worlds by making it useable in tight technical terrain and also have plenty of spread for high speed terrain. Hence why even my 300exc is a hell of a lot more versatile than this bike by being able to lug around the bush and then immediately hit the highway without having to swap sprockets. It should be exactly the opposite with the 500 being a better overall bike, but its gearbox hampers rather than helps it

Big engines don't benefit from close ratio gearboxes because as you say - they have the power to pull larger gearing - hence you can shift this bike from 1st to 3rd/4th to 6th without any issue whatsoever. I'd say the close ratio probably isn't much if any faster either because you are just wasting time changing through more gears. It still goes warp speed starting off in 3rd and holding it to the rev limitter

Anyway, I took the bike out today on some decent trails, or at least part way through a decent trail when it died on me, thats for another thread. Bottom line is i'll fix this up and sell it, because while it was running I thought yeah sure its kinda fun but its still really hard to get on the throttle, there's way more there than can be used. Attempts to really get on the throttle just resulted in me dodging imminent death and burning energy without actually going any faster.
It seems the 510 was made to show off and give huge smiles, but it doesn't feel very well thought out to me. A 300/350/450 engine would make a lot more sense with this chassis. Still plenty of power and you wouldn't lose any speed, just makes it a lot easier to handle

For 4.5 years, riding many different terrains, I found that the funnest, best fit for the handling, power, and gearbox was on fast to bad forest roads, between 10mph up to 60mph, the gearbox in this range always had a perfect gear for roosting over ruts and other road hazards. All other riding was a compromise, but in its element, the TE450 was the super enjoyable.

Nice pics! Some of us know life is a compromise on all about all fronts ...

Ride Safe Amigos

It's not the starting ratio that matters, it's the space or change in ratios between gears. There is a 7.3% difference across the entire 6 speeds. Changing one tooth bigger on the front sprocket or going smaller on the rear sprocket would widen that out even more. So in fact they are not the same although they may seem the same because the 510 pulls the ratio with such ease.

I said that in the post, you can change the sprockets to shift a 125/150SX to more or less match up with the 1st gear of the TE's, the spread will be very close. I can't believe your exacting like that is perfectly normal, like hey what 500 doesn't run such incredibly tight gear ratios... right?

I got a bloody rude shock when I first rode this bike, and I still hate the gearbox. The fact its so very close to that of a 125cc 2 stroke is just retarded
The 510 pulls that ratio with such ease that its RETARDED. I highly suggest you go ride any of the other big bores out there that actually have a sensible wide ratio gearbox. They are so much better in that department and there's still no need to downshift for anything

And no, I can't go higher in drive ratio to space things out more because then 1st becomes way too tall to actually be useful, it's already too tall at 13/47 and 6th is way too short. I can't get the gear ratios in a good position, it's always crap in one way or another. And thats just not acceptable IMO, one of the main purposes of a big bore bike is to NOT have this problem, plenty of power to copy with wide gear ratio's. The only way I could see this gearbox being of any benefit whatsoever to this engine is if it came with 10 gears

I've all but given up trying to mold my TE511 into a do all machine. It suffers the same close ratio box as yours. I've decided that I'll run slightly lower gearing than stock for better off road. But I know I'll be putt-putting at 50 MPH max on the road to and from the trails. I'm okay with that now. I just plan trips that don't involve any freeway/highway travel. Which is fine since, when I'm on the 511, I'm usually loaded down a bit with fly fishing gear and full day's worth of food and water.

I get that you don't like it, I'm only trying to be helpful and I'm in no way defending the 510. You have some good suggestions in this thread like G2 throttle, Recluse, run it a gear high, re-map it, or how about sell it because you don't like it.

I'm out of this thread, see ya.

At the risk of causing hate and discontent. It is and has been my opinion (one mans opinion) that all the talk about the science of gear ratios on this and other bikes is kind of silly interesting but silly. yes do your final drive where you like it but heck the internals are what they are, learn to ride the thing as they are. ride these things in the heart of the torque range just keep banging gears. these are relatively short stroke motors with modern style CR trans. It really is a strong engine and once sorted will work great. I have many hours of fun and racing on 3 models of the 450cc engine of this series. TC450 5 speed, TE450 6 speed and TXC450 six speed, I don't remember what final drive I used on my 450s 6 speeds but I raced these things in Nat H&H as well as the tightest West Chec and Tecate Enduro and HS. Get out and ride the crap out of it, learn to exploit how its designed, it was designed as a racing enduro (WEC) bike. Good bike have fun with it. keep an eye on your clutch hydro system, for me this took some time to get bullet proofed, slave was problem child but I also had a master fail as well.

Today I was with a much slower rider on his Berg, he's still a beginner and we stuck to the fairly easy stuff and I kept my pacing way down. Little bit of fire roads here n there but yep in that speed range, and this seemed to be where it was its happiest so far, it worked EXTREMELY well for that where its fairly flat flowing track, not stupidly tough and slow technical terrain, and not open enough to wrap the throttle way on. Take it easy and the gearbox works VERY well, always that perfect gear to slog along with, engine is very well behaved in the 3000-6000rpm range and could even be ridden by a beginner. Handling very sharp so you could swing around obstacles and up and over logs that don't bring you to a complete halt. It was very smooth and easy and took very little effort. I really enjoyed it like that it worked better than any other bike i've had

But then it still begs the question, why a 510? cause a 250 would have done pretty much just as well. My impression there was that in the flowing woods sort of riding, the 510 felt like a pretty damn good beginner to intermediate bike for those who don't want to stress the engine - I even gave my friend a go on it and he said yeah its really plush and nice for his pace of riding where you don't really break past 30% throttle much - yet you could also hand the bike straight over to an expert/godlike rider who can hold it at full tap blasting the crap out of anything in their way almost never letting off and they would also love it. But that gap in between seems problematic. It works to an extent, like I can push this thing fast and have it singing along, but it beats me up something shocking just trying to keep it under control and not overshoot into a tree or off a cliff. In 20 minutes of pushing hard I am completely shattered. I can keep a faster pace on my 300 2t for over an hour and still not be as tired

Anyone have an 09-10 510 with under 1000 miles they would like to sell? All this talk of these bikes makes be want buy up as many of them as I can

Because when the terrain opens up, you can haul azz like no tomorrow, that rush of brute 450/510 power is like an aphrodisiac to me, and I cant get that from a 250, the sound, the torque, the feel of a big bore thumper just does alot for me.

At this point, I'd pay some serious bucks for a 2010 TE450 in the crate......

there it is.
http://www.swm-motorcycles.it/en/models/enduro/rs-500-r/

I had an 06 TE510, which was geared for desert racing when I got it. That thing pulled way past 100mph. I geared it down and ran a lot of single track - and it never seemed to care what gear it was in - just happily torqued itself up everything. I did have some overheating problems in slow, technical terrain, especially when running with the oversized gas tank. Anyway, I rode it everywhere and loved it... sold it and got my current TE450 (also carb).

I think the 450 is actually better for me in every way - probably because it was a pristine, low-hour bike with lots of aftermarket goodies, as opposed to my previously raced 510, which was a little more, shall we say, "broken-in." All I miss from the 510 is the occasional rush from WOT that only the 510 can give - but I can get that on the Guzzi.

SWM looks really good...... I'l be eager to visit the first dealer that pops up in San Diego.