I'm back in the Husky fold (bought a Strada last weekend- been out since I sold my TE610 a while back). I'm looking at this Wiseco thing, because on the test ride, it stalled a couple times. Seems like a fueling issue, and I don't know squat about FI (my previous FI bikes were flawless). From the little I've read, I'm guessing the EJK is the best solution to the problem, because the spoofers don't work after a while? Also, I don't want to hook up my bike to a laptop, if I can avoid it. This is [hopefully] my low-maintenance bike!
Make sure you read through this thread as it will answer a lot of your questions: http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24352468&postcount=4293
True, but it's a good use of a week or two reading through it all and trying to digest before jumping for any of the solutions. EJK essentially removes the automatic adjustment out of the picture. You can make manual adjustments, as if by jetting it. I'm OK with trying this approach. AFXied spoofs the O2 sensor into adding fuel throughout the range. This should not get cancelled out by the ECU as the O2 sensor should be given the final decision on adjustments. The only thing that seems to be final in the matter (for some of us) is that the AIT spoofers will get corrected out by the O2 sensor detecting the rich burn. Some are reporting continued good results with the Wukaking/eruption/boost plug, but I for sure do not have that experience.
One might think the o2 is the final word, but that is not entirely correct. Our ecu monitors the system. It checks resistance, temps, tps settings, and I'm not sure, but maybe even map. So consider this. If your o2 goes bad, what happens? Bike starts running like garbage. The ecu will do what it can to bring the bike back around, but if not, will default to programmed settings. Before this happens, nobody knows how an ignition map is altered, no one knows how the self diagnosis works and alters the bike. The final say comes from the ecu. Both the EJK and AFxied, have an external ground. The ejk is installed AFTER the ecu, the AFxied is installed BEFORE the ecu. Since the ecu monitors ALL the system, it could quite easily alter other things to compensate for the o2 spoof. The ecu takes info from things such as temperature, TPS angles, knock sensors, and continually measures the resistance in every circuit. We know how the EJK and similar work, Dobeck explains it well. We do not know how the AFxied works, and the fellows selling and promoting it will not explain it. My opinion is that the AFxied was designed for a wideband o2 operation and was tried on the TR650, and made some performance changes. But not knowing how the AFxied works with the narrow band o2 in altering the signal INTO the ecu, we have no idea what other consequences may occur. Remember, it is affecting how the computer responds, vs the ejk that just changes the final signal to the injector. This may or may not be relevant, but the first person to run the AFxied, is having MAJOR engine troubles. The second person to run the AFxied, has been paying close attention to how it performs and documenting it, and that is in another thread. Time will tell. As far as the ait spoofers getting learned out, there is discussion on this also. My hunch, and only a hunch is that because no two bikes are set up exactly the same and running the exact climate, the spoof may get compensated for in different ways depending on driving style. So with the ait spoof, at first the ecu thinks it's cold and sends more fuel. As the bike learns it does not need all the fuel, it can compensate in the ranges and TPS angles to self correct that. Thus, some still love their wuka and eruption and booster plugs. And upon further contemplation on this, because of the concern of carbon fouling the engine, it makes sense that the adaptation to bring the bike back to the programmed values of the ecu will have lesser long term buildup of carbon, but not necessarily change/adapt the idle too much, leaving the problem solved. In the spark plug thread I am hoping to confirm or dispel the theory by seeing plugs in action. Then there is one final thing, maybe the fuel mapping is spot on perfect and it is something else that needs to be looked at. Something as simple as turning the idle screw, or changing the spark plug. Or a combination of both, or a fuel injector that can deliver a larger pulse when the throttle demands it. Think like a small hose and a large hose, one gallon of water in 5 seconds or 1 second, even though the tap is fully open. Or maybe it is the fuel pressure? The EJK seems to be the best band aid for the money so far. Enough of my blathering.
The AF-XIED has been explained ad infinitum on various ADV threads. It simply works by sampling the same signals from the o2 sensor that the ECU does. It then sends an altered signal by shifting 70-200 mv more than the o2 sensor to the ECU. This shift in turn tells the ECU to provide more fuel in increments of 1.8%-2% (average) per available setting (seven usable settings) on the XIED. However, instead of ending the richening in closed loop (cold start) it continues the same richening in open loop thus causing increased fuel consumption across the board. IMHO this doesn't make it a bad device it makes it another choice. AIT (temperature sensor) spoofers will eventually be negated by the ECU as it learns that it is trying to be tricked into thinking the ambient temperatures are cooler (20* cooler) than the actual temperature causing richening in closed loop. The Wuka King has been (so far) the exception to this rule.
Charlie, that is wideband speak. Narrow band is switching. When I started in on this I assumed the TR650 used a wideband also. Makes sense as it is a more precise o2 and is for better performance. Three guys check in and get a room for $30 at 10 bucks a piece. Later the motel owner decides he charged too much for the room so gives the bellhop 5 bucks to return to the 3 guys. The bellhop keeps 2 bucks and hands back 1 dollar to each of the three guys. Effectively now they each paid $9 so 9x3=27 plus the 2 the bellhop kept bringing it up to $29. Where did the dollar go? Don't fall for that arguing. narrow band and wideband are two separate animals. We can argue all day long about where that dollar went, but the fact is, there are two separate math equations improperly merged. NO, he has not explained how the AFxied works on a narrow band o2. Dave
I'll not get in a pissing match with you because I like you and respect your opinion and your accumulated knowledge. But he has explained the offset signal and why it works. Never the less as you said it is a band aid. When I get back from my Great River Road tour I am going to purchase, install and log data on what our MM ECU is doing via the LC2 by Innovate Motor Sports. At least we will have a clue as to what it's trying to do in closed and open loop.
Yes the XIED shifts the entire curve by some whatever the amount the little dashpot determines. DRZCharlie said 70-200mV which sounds good to me. BUT it would shift the scale of the O2 signal LOWER, thus making the ECU think it's LEAN and adding more fuel. If we were talking wideband, which I can assure you (with an oscilliscope) the T650 does NOT have, we would be talking about a range of 0-5 VOLTS and not 0-1000 MILLIVOLTS. Narrowband 0-1000 mV going lean to rich. Wideband 0-5 V going from rich to lean.
Yes, are be right. I will go back and verify the voltages in the XIED threads and repost them once I find it. In any case it achieves this by shifting the voltages.
Truly and politely, I must have missed the detail regarding wide band and narrow band. I have absolute no knowledge of either my 1200 or the wifes 700 having a wideband lambda sensor. Can somebody explain more? I was thinking all 3 bikes used the exact same sensor. But the TR doesn't work exactly the same way either, Roger mentioned this early on with you Charlie but I don't remember much or any decent detail. Wideband sensor's would be more like for a PC-V Auto Tune or motorsports LC-2.
It doesn't work the same on start up. Our bikes only trigger the XIED into use when the engine has started. On most if not all other bikes the XIED turns on when the key goes on before starting. I am still poring through data to find where he told me the voltages. I know it was given but I'll be damned if I can find it. YET. I was talking with Roger earlier in the week and I am going to mount an LC2 when I get back from my trip. This should reveal a lot about the Magnetti Marelli ECU and how it fuels.
Hi Biff Malibu. I was going to PM you but not enough posts. I generally hang over at Adv. I'm keen on the EJK & was wondering where you got it? I'm in Newport, probably not far from you. Just did the airbox mod & trying to make the TR a bit more robust for some touring.
That's what I'd love to do after I have a good baseline understanding. But... I want to try it on a bike I don't care if I don't ride frequently so if it takes months to get it working properly I'm not bummed. But I'd really like to try my hand at starting from scratch and controlling both fuel and spark, though starting with fuel only, then adding in spark might be easier. Has there been any further development for a TR specific kit from EJK?
Many thanks to V8Astro and wferrari. W8Astro for his clear description of the EJK and how to deploy it. And wferrari for sharing the info of his settings and of the store where he bought is EJK (Jeroen van der Meer - www.dynojetvdmeer.nl). I bought my Strada in juni 2014 and was quickly disappointed by the stalling at every roundabout (of which there are a lot in Holland). Looking for info i found this thread and now i have back the joy in riding this bike.
Dillon Binstock from Dobeck Performance who manufacture the EJK has advised the following: The EJK is now available for the TR650. We recommend the EJK GEN 3 p/n 9110038 for your Husky TR650. The EJK comes preprogrammed with the recommended settings for stage 1 modifications (intake and exhaust). Cost of the EJK is $225 US and includes free shipping via US Mail to anywhere in the USA. Here is a link, http://www.electronicjetkit.com/DirtBike/viewproduct.asp?partnumber=9110038 If this does not work look dirt bike/dual sport/motard and the huskies are listed there.
I inquired Dobeck Performances about the possibility of updating my EJK unit to TR650 specs here in Europe, and they told me that Jeroen van der Meer is fully certified to perform such task. I've contacted him a few minutes ago, and I'm waiting for his feedback regarding what costs I should expect for the whole process.
Just wondering what people's opinions are. Which spoofer do you recommend. The EJK or the AF-XIED? I've doon the booster plug and my bike went to shit about 1000km after installing it. I'm all stock, never touched the airbox or exhaust except pulling the spark arresters out and the packing. Going to beat the guts out of them before spring riding season. I'd like to have a PC5 and auto tune but it's too expensive for my blood. Any feed back would be great.
