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  1. 2 Stroke Husqvarna Motorcycles Made In Italy - About 1989 to 2014
    WR = 2st Enduro & CR = 2st Cross

All 2st Direct injection 2T is here... but when will we get it!

Discussion in '2 Stroke' started by Sandgroper, Dec 24, 2010.

  1. Sandgroper Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Dubai
  2. Johnnymannen Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Sweden
    It will be very intresting to see when it arrives and who will be first! The only thing i probably won´t like is the possibility to laborate and to change the engine character by myself. I am not so pleased with to being "forced" to not be able to make changes to my bike if i want to! Just like with cars and their traction controls, ABS braking, anti skid function etc. But maybe the make the mapping possibility easy to do for us all?

    Johnny.:sweden:
  3. LawnDartMike Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Salem, OR USA
    I applaud OSSA for putting EFI on a 2t engine but in no way is that considered "direct injection". That EFI bike has been around over a year now. The only thing it does is remove the jetting and add complexity which either is or isn't a bad thing depending on what you want. Direct injection is an entirely different animal and is even more complex but gives much more benefit then EFI.

    You can see that the OSSA head does not contain the needed components for direct injection as does the heads of the Ski-Doo powerplant in this article:
    http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/MotoRelated,20/Why-2Stroke-Direct-Injection-is-a-Big-Deal,727601

    Supposedly KTM has it ready to go but are waiting for the economies to improve since they will be more expensive then traditional two stroke bikes.

    Aprilla has been using direct injected 2 strokes for a while in their mopeds:
    http://www.speed-sports.com/motorscooters/scooter_models/aprilia_scooters/ditech.html

    The technology is there it just needs to be applied.
  4. Sandgroper Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Dubai
    Thanks for the heads up LDM, some nice info there.
    I dont like the idea of paying even more for a smoker :S
  5. fran...k. Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    eastern ct
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    88te 98wr125 2004wr250 others
    Other Motorcycles:
    1993 yam gts (ball joint front end)
    I couldn't figure out why the ossa got calld direct injection by looking at the pictures. It kind of seemed an advertisment to get issue #4. Not sure where a definition is but I think so long as the scavange portion of the stroke is with air only it counts as direct injection. A two cycle diesel is as far away from conventional two stoke dirt bike type engine (and the purest form of direct injection) as I can imagine but injection into the head isn't necessary to meet the definition I propose.

    Fran
  6. LawnDartMike Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Salem, OR USA
    If that is the case then all 4t EFI engines could be call DI. But the automotive industry uses the term DI only for the engines where the fuel charge is injected directly into the combustion chamber, not the intake tract.
  7. Motosportz CH Sponsor

    Location:
    Vancouver WA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    WR165 / CR250 / TE511 / 83 XC500
    Other Motorcycles:
    many
    Nope, still air/fuel charge coming in. If the 4 strokes did not inject the gas until the valves were completely closed and right into the cylinder than it would be direct injection.
  8. LawnDartMike Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Salem, OR USA
    I thought that is what I said? :excuseme: I was replying to Fran's post. Maybe I misunderstood Fran.
  9. fran...k. Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    eastern ct
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    88te 98wr125 2004wr250 others
    Other Motorcycles:
    1993 yam gts (ball joint front end)
    With the automotive or pick up truck stuff I deal with there is throtle body or an injector for each port. Wandering around the internet on some discussion group there was a guy with some form of Mazda with direct injection and it had two fuel pumps and the direct injection one cost like $1300 but it is just talk.

    I think some of the new two stroke gasoline engine designs or designs which could be put on a motorcycle involve essentially running normal two stroke engine with no carburetor and once the exhaust is closed off forcing in air/fuel mix which kind of stays on top perhaps termed stratified charge maybe and most likely not through the head but through the cylinder. I think this is what the aprilla scooter link describes.

    I am quite frustrated with the term geothermal heat. I have to listen to radio ads describing what was a heat pump but now is geothermal heat.

    Fran
  10. rasputin Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Bavaria
    it is still not as simple as it sounds. basically, "the technology" is known since decades. but the necessary parts (injectors, ecu) are still not as advanced as they need to be. i am speaking about racing two-stroke engines here, not about the low-rpm engines like the 50cc aprilia engine.

    r
  11. LawnDartMike Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Salem, OR USA
    A few short years ago there was the problem of getting EFI bikes to operate at 12,000 RPM. They solved that in short order. It seems that if one of the large MC manufacturers wanted to put the research dollars into making it work it would happen. Currently though the economy hasn't recovered so I don't see any of the manufacturers having the extra money to get'r done. I'm not a KTM fan but I'm hoping they manage to do it and send a wake-up call to the Asian companies.

    I think getting a small (500cc twin?) street bike out there with DI as a proof of concept would be easier then adapting the current tech to a dirt bike. It would show the advantages of the 2t DI engines to the general public. Aprilia - are you listening?
  12. rasputin Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Bavaria
    you are speaking about port-fuel injection, right?

    r
  13. LawnDartMike Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Salem, OR USA
    Yup. The mags were saying that the 4t 450's FI was easier to develop then the 4t 250's because the RPM range was lower and that caused the longer wait for the FI 250's. I don't know if that were true or not but it seems all the manufacturers had a 450 going before their 250 and they all had FI street bikes operating in that RPM range so who knows the real story.

    Apply the 4t injector to a small bore 12,000 RPM 2t and you would have to double the speed of the injectors since it fires every revolution. Now we are talking Formula 1 or Moto GP injector speeds. And that doesn't address air induction issues for DI. I wonder if the final DI product will have much in common with the current 2t design when you look at all it will take to get it done.

    (I'll shut up now since I'm probably preaching to the choir...)