I have serious doubts about these plugs for our bikes. I have never been a fan of multiple ground electrode plugs. View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HikB3eXBb78 I looked around for a suitable single ground electrode spark plug, and so far found this, which may not physically fit as the wrench size is 5/8ths. http://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9688 But even according to ngk comparing them to the mar9a-j, it is a better plug. So who says we have to use the crap plugs? The ecu on our bikes is constantly monitoring and changing according to conditions. I do believe it has the ability to change the spark curve also. So if the plug is firing off one side then the other, and the ecu tries to adapt to the varying burn patterns within the combustion chamber, I could see this as a problem. I think I can get this plug at the local parts store. These are the plugs from my bike. One on the right is from the center. The open side on the top was facing the intake. (top photo)
Never had any trouble whatsoever with twin-electrode plugs (usually NGK's) in the 650 V-Stroms since 2007. My current DL still has the original NGK's from new (now 38.000km)...and looking fine. My once-only set of iridium-plugs some years ago didn't do anything different to what the stockers did... I never wasted $$ on those again.
NGK list are plugs low on the durability chart. I found a Brisk plug that matches or specs, but I know nothing about the European brand.
Brisk is a top notch product from what I have recently learned. The AR10ZS is the recommended plug. I just got off the phone with the USA distributer in Texas. I'm going to order one up for the center hole. It has a 5/8 wrench size, and will fit. It does not need indexing, and is more like an igniter on a jet engine, me likey. Downside is they last about 5,000 miles. They're about $17 plus shipping. You may have a dealer near you and save shipping. http://www.briskusa.com/products/spark-plugs/multispark/
I have a hunch that if our motor were to burn the fuel better, the "lean stumble" and hesitations we experience with stock bikes may improve or abate completely. New research is showing that adding fuel to the issue, may cause long term damage, and severe damage. The amount and severity of any long term effect would depend on driving style, maintenance and fuel used. But make no mistake, our engine are higher performance than many engines referenced, and are a bit more finicky. https://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceTips/detonation_and_preignition.htm This is just one of the tech articles that pushes me toward other solutions, or at least try other ideas.
Thank you for the run down Mag00. Let us know how you like it. I hope they really make a difference. I know the closer to 14.7 air fuel ratio the harder the mixture is to unite. I think if we actually have a performance plug they will run better. Like you already stated we are running a race motor.
You're welcome Baddrapp. I have a hunch, I really can't explain why, that a bigger injector, with a better spark plug will do the trick. Not so much for more fuel, but a better delivery of it at the proper time. I read someone post about the injector being maxed out on the Terra. I have not checked, heck I don't know what injector we really run. I have to pull my airbox to get it out. If I get lucky, I may be able to pry it enough to get at the screws, too bad I didn't hog out more around the throttle body like some did. The EJK and similar, seem to be panning out well, and it is easy and cheap. Would love to see the plugs after a few hundred miles.
Your right a larger injector will work as long as our fuel pump will keep up with it. It would be cool if someone could hookup a fuel pressure gauge and see what happens. It could be the fuel pump and not the injector. The stock plugs are nothing special. Just a stock plug with two electrodes. Hopefully you can tell the difference with the plug.
I haven't even begun to look into injector and pump pressures etc. I found it curious as no return line/pressure regulator on our bikes. Must be built in. When I unhooked my fuel line from the injector and back up, I never bled any air off, and yet it started. Wonder where the air went. It's all uphill from the tank. I had to go out the injector nozzle.
There is only a pressure feed line external of the fuel tank. The pump, regulator amd bypass is all inside the tank. We know that the engine is capable of making the advertised ouput by the dyno charts people have shown. Knowing this I can say that the injector size is not an issue. It would be nice to see max injector duty cycle on a dyno run.
Looking at the components and drawings, the whole thing looks to be pretty much identical to the Zook V-Stroms and indeed, almost all other EFI bikes). Fuel pumps deliver ~1000- 1200cc (1-1.2l) per minute. Actually needed by the EFI are around 250-400cc/ minute during normal running , up to 800cc during hard acceleration. Any backpressure in the system will be bled off by the fuel pump pressure regulator by jettisoning the excess fuel back into the tank. No air has to be bled, no fancy stuff whatsoever is needed...fuel is pumped at a maximum rate and whatever "hits the wall" (and isn't needced at the time) is re-routed back into the tank, very easy, very efficient. If there's air in the fuel lines, the sucker just won't fire up...same as a carb, no magic there. A larger injector will allow more fuel to be injected, but the pressure is the same as before. If the system can make use of the extra fuel, is a different story (and a very doubtful one!)
Hi Ogre , your plugs look pretty good! Hope you put new plugs back in and is it running better now? Had my TR mossed (Vers14)(2nd time @ 12k klm) and new plugs also, 1 week ago and it hasn't stalled once since! mazing. Driveability isn't as good as the old BP days tho with plenty of popping going on, on the over run. I remember back in my old mad V8 days (30 years back) we had a deal going on with C_-_-_-_ spark plugs, and we found when we machine bench tested, 1 in 4 plugs would break down above 5g's. So I guess the moral is Looks can be deceiving, hence my question Is it running better now? Thanks Baddrapp & Mag00 for finding the Brisk AR10ZS, are you going to try a couple or just one? Eager to learn more thanks pc apologies, when I hit reply et don't do it
Paul, Long story, but short version is I don't know yet. The day my new plugs showed up I had some health issues and did not touch the bike for at least a week. I just installed the new plugs, but I have not been able to ride the bike.
My plug hopefully shows up today. I am just going to use one. There is some mention of spark plug operating voltage, and also of using a capacitive plug, not these fancy ones. I like these for the indexing (lack of). I fired up my bike yesterday with the pipes just hanging on loosely. Lots of sputtering. Two new stocker plugs. I won't change a thing and try the Brisk and see if it sounds any different. Ogre, from that angle your plugs look fine. I don't know why it didn't register about adapting and the all or none theory. The adaptions could happen in a million different ways depending on as many factors, so ... why couldn't the ecu adapt out the added fuel at higher rpm and still leave a bit extra in the places needed? There is wiggle room on these bikes. In other words, it is possible that the ait spoof can work perfectly. It does not have to adapt out completely. Looking at plugs and looking at economy numbers can tell a different story than theory and conjecture. I forget which fueling solution you have Ogre?
I am going to install new plugs and not reset the bike. This should eliminate the variables Ogre-fl and I are trying to weed out. whether what we have experienced helping the bad vibrations was spark plugs, bad connections or possibly just resetting the ecu. I do believe that our ecu's can compensate for the bad spark plugs and retard the engine causing bad vibrations let you guys know tomorrow. Mag- The last spark plug in the video (VTA 3d) I believe is used in airplanes correct?
OK, I am finally back on the bike again. My wonderful smooth bike is back. Did new plugs fix it? I still don't know. Now for the longer story. When I pulled the spark plugs the first time I found the gap on one side of each plug to be very tight. I opened the gaps and re-installed the plugs. Unfortunately (for the sake of the scientific method) I also disconnected the wuka spoofer and did a ECU reset at the same time. Unlike the previous time I did a reset, I left the wuka disconnected. It is running the stock AIT. The week following doing this my bike was pretty much smooth again. Today, with new plugs, it did seem even smoother but its very hard to tell. So what was it that has made it better? Did gaping the original plugs fix it? Did I fix a possible connection problem when I pulled/re-installed the plugs? Is it because I am running without the wuka? FWIW, last summer when it was this hot/humid I did not have the wuka plug installed yet. I installed it late September for my first trip to the GA mountains. I am going to run it for a few more days without the wuka, then re-connect it.
I installed the new plugs and bike is smoother and seems to have fixed the vibrations. I did not reset the ecu this time. I installed the new plugs started the bike and let it run until the fan kicked on to possibly relearn the new plugs. Jumped on the bike rode 30 miles to work. The only thoughts I have is our bikes are very sensitive to spark plug gap. The dual electrode plugs warp the grounds quickly if you ride it hard. So for me I guess as soon as it start to vibe put new plugs in. Could be 5k-15k miles.
