250-500cc WR300 motards

[empiredownhc]

Hi all,

I've had my 09 WR300 since new and love it to bits. Recently I acquired a set of wheels, forks and triple clamps off a SMR510 and intend to put them on as soon as possible.
I have a few questions though, firstly, the 4 stroke SMR which the wheels came off is left hand drive, and the WR is right hand drive, is it as simple as flipping the rear wheel over? I measured the width of both hubs and they seem the same.
Secondly, before I cut down a brand new chain to suit the geared down motard sprocket, I was going to put the 48 tooth rear sprocket and the chain on the motard wheel and see how that goes....obviously i'm not doing any serious road riding, I only intend on taking it around the local industrial area for a few wheelies!
Anything else i should know before I take the two stroke out on the tar?

Cheers,
Scotty.

 

[Motosportz]

I think the rear wheel will work flipped over.

 

[Johnnymannen]

Hello! If i´m not wrong, i think there is 5mm difference in width of the 4-stroke wheels compared to the 2-stroke, measured from sprocket to disc. I have motardwheels on mine, but they are from Yamaha. I have used my bike on the streets now and then the whole summer with great success! I use 38/15 gearing, JD red needle in 1st clip, 40 pilot and 175 main at about 20 degrees C at sealevel, and it works perfect. 165/55 rear tire and 120/70 front, cut slicks. 5,25 inch rear rim. Tight fit, but works fine! It´s very tight at the chainguide, but i use the BRP which gives more room(shorter).

Johnny:sweden:

 

[empiredownhc]

Johnny,
Thanks for the info! I put the wheels and forks in last night and they fit straight in. It looks as though the rear sprocket may sit slightly further out than it should though, becasue like you said it is close to the chain guide (actually touches it). So I might double check the alignment of the front / rear sprockets before riding. I'll put the 50 tooth rear off the dirt wheel onto the motard to check the alignment also.
Other things to note:
The rear disc size is different, but easy enough to swap the dirt one onto the motard wheel.
The 510 triple clamps don't have a steering stop the same as the WR, so effectively there is nothing preventing the triple clamp banging all the way into the frame.
Also realised the stock handlebars run the full oversided thickness all the way to the end of the handlebar tube - the new barkbusters i purchased dont fit in the end?!
The 510 forks are actually shorter than the WRs. The bike now sits more biased to the front end. I'll see how this affects the handling.

Cheers for the help, I'll try post up some pics when it all back together.

Scott.

 

[Johnnymannen]

No problemos! maybe you can make some adjustments to the spacers that goes into the bearing sealers and that way move the wheel slightly sideways to make the sprockets align better+ i did that on mineas i have Yamaha wheels=). The only thing to watch out for is that the reardisc doesnt stick to the piston in the rear caliper as you compress it more, but a few millimeters should work!

Johnny

Johnny,
Thanks for the info! I put the wheels and forks in last night and they fit straight in. It looks as though the rear sprocket may sit slightly further out than it should though, becasue like you said it is close to the chain guide (actually touches it). So I might double check the alignment of the front / rear sprockets before riding. I'll put the 50 tooth rear off the dirt wheel onto the motard to check the alignment also.
Other things to note:
The rear disc size is different, but easy enough to swap the dirt one onto the motard wheel.
The 510 triple clamps don't have a steering stop the same as the WR, so effectively there is nothing preventing the triple clamp banging all the way into the frame.
Also realised the stock handlebars run the full oversided thickness all the way to the end of the handlebar tube - the new barkbusters i purchased dont fit in the end?!
The 510 forks are actually shorter than the WRs. The bike now sits more biased to the front end. I'll see how this affects the handling.

Cheers for the help, I'll try post up some pics when it all back together.

Scott.

 

[empiredownhc]

More fidding on the weekend and more sprocket and alignment issues.
The rear wheel fits perfectly into the swingarm at the hub. The disc sits nicely within the rear caliper too. The spacers fit fine and don't need any modifications. However, the rear sprocket sits too far out. I think the difference is where the sprocket bolts to the hub, those "legs" where the bolt goes into are sticking further out than on the dirt wheel. It means the rear sprocket rubs on the metal bracket that holds the chain guide. Therefore the chain guide cannot be installed and the alignment of the front to rear sprockets is approx 5mm out.
I figure i can either machine down those "legs" or get an offset sprocket made. I'd prefer to do the sprocket as the idea of taking away material from an item that receives a fair amount of stress concerns me.
Would an offset sprocket have any negative effects?
What do you guys think?

 

[Johnnymannen]

have you measured what happens if you make new spacers for the wheelbearings where the axle goes through? How much can you move the wheel to the side with new spacers without the disc rubbing the bracket for the caliper?

More fidding on the weekend and more sprocket and alignment issues.
The rear wheel fits perfectly into the swingarm at the hub. The disc sits nicely within the rear caliper too. The spacers fit fine and don't need any modifications. However, the rear sprocket sits too far out. I think the difference is where the sprocket bolts to the hub, those "legs" where the bolt goes into are sticking further out than on the dirt wheel. It means the rear sprocket rubs on the metal bracket that holds the chain guide. Therefore the chain guide cannot be installed and the alignment of the front to rear sprockets is approx 5mm out.
I figure i can either machine down those "legs" or get an offset sprocket made. I'd prefer to do the sprocket as the idea of taking away material from an item that receives a fair amount of stress concerns me.
Would an offset sprocket have any negative effects?
What do you guys think?

 

[lookin4trails]

You could either machine the 4T hub, or find a (new / used) 2T hub and re-lace. I paid about $300.00 CAD for a Husky replacement 2T hub back in 2008 (it came complete with bearings).

I guess you could machine / buy an offset sprocket, but strength may be compromised.

I have pictures of the two hubs side by side, PM me with your email address if you want the photos. From the photos it can be clearly seen (from the casting line) that the 4T hub is a "built-up" version of the 2T hub.

 

[Johnnymannen]

I would machine it down 5mm as it´s reliable on the 2-strokes with 5mm less material already, if you can´t move the wheel 5mm to the side.

Johnny

You could either machine the 4T hub, or find a (new / used) 2T hub and re-lace. I paid about $300.00 CAD for a Husky replacement 2T hub back in 2008 (it came complete with bearings).

I guess you could machine / buy an offset sprocket, but strength may be compromised.

I have pictures of the two hubs side by side, PM me with your email address if you want the photos. From the photos it can be clearly seen (from the casting line) that the 4T hub is a "built-up" version of the 2T hub.

 

[Twatty]

Hi guys, my first post here.
I currently ride an 09 TE450 with SM Pro/ Talon motard wheels, but I have been thinking about getting a WR300 next year and also running the 17's on that. I wasn't sure about the wheels fitting in the 2T swingarm, but the other week I noticed a WR300 in the shop that had talon hubs so I asked the guy about it, he said they are TE450 wheels just flipped over on the rear, the only modification needed was a 3mm longer spacer on the sprocket side, as the swingarm was being pulled in to far towards the hub and causing the chain to rub on the guide. A 3mm longer spacer and it all lines up perfect, you could even try a couple of washers to test it out, hope this helps.
Would love to see some pics of 2T Husky sumo's!

 

[empiredownhc]

Twatty,

That sounds pretty reasonable. I'm not sure of the difference between the factory hub and the Talon ones. Surely they wouldn't vary too much. I picked my factory ones up (second hand) fairly cheaply, otherwise I would have loved to get some trick Talon hubs especially for the WR model.

I've got my hub machined down this week, picking it up on saturday and should have it all together this weekend. I'll try and post up some photos when its complete, and also a few I have taken in the build up.

I'm pretty excited to get the 2 stroke on the road and go suprise a few sportsbikes on Sunday morning!

 

[Johnnymannen]

I really like my 300 in supermoto setting. I use standard suspension, but adjusted hard quite much. I run on the street with soft cut slicks which works good when it´s warm outside, and with a good jetting on the Keihin PWK i get great fueleconomy too! I have 15/38 gearing on the street. I use the same brake caliper relocation plate as the KTM has on their 300 2008. same shit!

 

[Twatty]

empiredownhc, why did you get your hub machined? surely not for sprocket alignment! The WR I was looking at had perfect sprocket/chain line up, just the 450 spacer was letting the swingarm (and therefore the chain guide) get pulled in towards the wheel to far. Good luck with it. If you want more local supermoto info check out supermotoaus.com

Johnny, PICS PLEASE********************************************************************************!

 

[Johnnymannen]

empiredownhc, why did you get your hub machined? surely not for sprocket alignment! The WR I was looking at had perfect sprocket/chain line up, just the 450 spacer was letting the swingarm (and therefore the chain guide) get pulled in towards the wheel to far. Good luck with it. If you want more local supermoto info check out supermotoaus.com

Johnny, PICS PLEASE********************************************************************************!

I´ll see what i can do! Don´t have so many pics, but i´ll check!

 

[Johnnymannen]

I´ll see what i can do! Don´t have so many pics, but i´ll check!

Here is 2 pics: One with icetyres and one with Supermoto tyres.

 

[Twatty]

Very nice Johnny!
I have read that the WR's have a very short 5th gear, how does the 15/38 go in terms of top speed and how useable is 1st with this gearing? When you say you get good fuel economy, how many km are you getting out of a tank?
Sorry for all the Q's, but some of this info is very hard to find by searching, I don't think enough people have discovered the joy of riding a 2T on the road!

 

[TCP]

We just did a sumo wheel conversion on a 2009 TE w/ SM Pro Wheels. Yes there are two hub widths used on variaous bikes 155mm and 151mm but even with same width as stock hub the SM Pro wheels (155 mm on this bike) we had the fitment issues on the rear wheel (sprocket too close to swingarm) you speak of. We had a new sprocket side spacer machined similar to the SM Pro spacer that came with the wheel set except made it .800" overall length and it looks like its going to work perfectly.

I would NOT machine material off the SM Pro hub at the sprocket tab area. There will not be enough material left to handle the abuse that 100% traction of supermoto use dishes out.

I had a few extra spacers made for our next job, if you need one just PM me.

Paul

 

[Johnnymannen]

Very nice Johnny!
I have read that the WR's have a very short 5th gear, how does the 15/38 go in terms of top speed and how useable is 1st with this gearing? When you say you get good fuel economy, how many km are you getting out of a tank?
Sorry for all the Q's, but some of this info is very hard to find by searching, I don't think enough people have discovered the joy of riding a 2T on the road!

Yes, the 5th gear is at least shorter than KTM´s 300, but i think it works good with this gearing. I prefer to have a closer gearing between all the other gears when you shift between corners as this gives less loss of traction and smoother downshifts when you release the clutch before a corner for example. Of course i have to slip on the clutch slightly on takeoff, but that´s no problem. I´ve had 176km /hour on the speedo with the Supermoto wheels, and when i count on it that would be around 150km/hour with the smaller diameter on the Supermoto wheels. (-15%). I think there is some more to get out of it if i want. I have no problems with start and stop when i go in to town with the bike. It´s so strong on the bottom. I have a good cruisingspeed on the road at around 100km/hour. One thing i have laborated with a lot is to find a jetting that works good on very light throttleopenings because that´s what is used a lot on the road and it´s very annoying when it bludders all the time at constant speed. The best i came up to is this: First i live at sealevel and the jetting works very good between 10-20 degrees Celsius. JD red needle in leanest clip position or EEL needle in 2nd pos. The EEL gives a harder hit when i open up the throttle, so it depends on what you want. 175 mainjet, 40 pilotjet, and airscrew about1,5 to 2 turns out. I get around 110 km out of a tank with this jetting, and i use 3% oilmix with almost no spooge. Runs very clean and crisp. I use the Keihin PWK 38 AS carb. I think this carb is almost necessary to get a good jetting for the streets. At least it´s not so sensitive as the Mikuni!

Johnny

 

[Twatty]

TCP, thats interesting information about the hubs, I'll have to measure mine when I get home in a couple of weeks. My wheels fitted up perfectly on my TE with the spacers that came with them. I agree about machining hubs too.

Johnny, you are a deadset legend! thanks heaps for the info, I reckon I'll start with the gearing you have, and just go taller for when I go road racing. I don't have to worry about constant RPM use very much as the roads around adelaide are tight, twisty and steep, perfect supermoto territory! I'll probably get myself a PWK and jet kit when I go over to the states next year, as I'll be buying the WR when I get back from that trip.
110km is pretty good fuel range, but I'm thinking I'll get a big tank just so I don't have to mix at the station mid ride, 150km is the longest we usually do on the road.

I wonder how empiredownhc is going with his conversion?

 

[Johnnymannen]

TCP, thats interesting information about the hubs, I'll have to measure mine when I get home in a couple of weeks. My wheels fitted up perfectly on my TE with the spacers that came with them. I agree about machining hubs too.

Johnny, you are a deadset legend! thanks heaps for the info, I reckon I'll start with the gearing you have, and just go taller for when I go road racing. I don't have to worry about constant RPM use very much as the roads around adelaide are tight, twisty and steep, perfect supermoto territory! I'll probably get myself a PWK and jet kit when I go over to the states next year, as I'll be buying the WR when I get back from that trip.
110km is pretty good fuel range, but I'm thinking I'll get a big tank just so I don't have to mix at the station mid ride, 150km is the longest we usually do on the road.


Haha! Thank you for the nice words my friend! Maybe you can find a smaller rear sprocket, but i couldn´t. And 15 is the biggest you can have at the front sprocket. I give you my suspension settings that i have as a basic guide! Fork: Comp 2 clicks out and rebound 4 clicks out
Rear:Low speed comp. 4 clicks out, high speed comp 2 clicks out and rebound 8 clicks out. This feels quite good for me on a totally standard 2010 suspension. Buy a PWK now! You won´t regret it as you get all the benefits of it. Stronger bottom, easier jetting, and the JD kit is also included if you order it from Motosportz! Buy it! NOW!!

Johnny