Worn countershaft, & worn crank stub

[rsmell@sbcglobal.net]

Hello,

I have an 87 430 XC, with a loose countershaft in the bearing, a loose rear case bushing, and a worn ignition side crank stub. I have had cases apart in my youth, with a 75 250 CR, when I was 19. I'm now 57, and would appreciate some suggestions.

I have a used gear cluster, with a good countershaft. If I take it apart myself, I probably want to check and replace the shift forks. Where could a get the tools, to split the cases, or should I make them myself?

Is there a better solution, to the countershaft seal? Does any body make an oversize bushing?

I think I saw a new ignition side crank stub, on HVA's website; however, if the ignition side is worn enough, to let grunge (oil residue), part the seal, the clutch side is probably worn too. Any suggestions to get the crank rebuilt? I have had good experiences with Stahl's.

Thanks in advance,

Bob

 

[suprize]

Seriously bob, find a good bike shop and get them to strip it down then you can sort out what is actually needed to get it freshened up.

if $$ are the issue, if you have to split it 2 or three times before its right, the shop will seem cheap

if your a must DIYer, then there is lots of help here on what you will need and what to do.

look back through the posts and you will find plenty of advice on crank splitting and repairing stuff.

great bike, well worth the effort to get it right

 

[ruwfo]

I have had good experiences with Stahl's.

Yes either Forest or his Son can help you with everything you'll need.

 

[fran...k.]

If what you call a rear case bushing is what I call a swingarm pivot bolt insert is loose the inserts themselves may be worn larger on the inside, the swingarm pivot bolt may be worn and the frame plates the swingarm pivot bolt goes through may be worn both at the hole and on the sides of the plates. Put the bolt through the holes and see if it is satisfactory for your purposes. I have been making new inserts and installing them with epoxy.

You mean to say the shaft is loose in the bearing not the bearing loose in the case? If that is the case chances are it is similar on the other end of that shaft. I am not sure what to do with the loose fit shaft to bearing. There is a loctite product for cylindrical fit, the bearing to case fit is most likely a bit loose.

Just a new two rubber seal bearing with the seal pryed off is what I do at the countershaft upon re-assembly. I have made my own adapters to standard puller of the type with two an three slots. and made other things which I could point to pictures if you really want.

The crank stub is worn at the seal seating surface not the taper less than ideal. The seal on the other side is kind of different in that it doesn't seal against air. Unfortunately the whole think can kind of wear out at sort of similar usage and the rod bearing may not be too far from failure, Look at the starting gears on the rear of the clutch and look closely at the third gear on the input shaft on your spare cluster.

 

[rsmell@sbcglobal.net]

If what you call a rear case bushing is what I call a swingarm pivot bolt insert is loose the inserts themselves may be worn larger on the inside, the swingarm pivot bolt may be worn and the frame plates the swingarm pivot bolt goes through may be worn both at the hole and on the sides of the plates. Put the bolt through the holes and see if it is satisfactory for your purposes. I have been making new inserts and installing them with epoxy.

You mean to say the shaft is loose in the bearing not the bearing loose in the case? If that is the case chances are it is similar on the other end of that shaft. I am not sure what to do with the loose fit shaft to bearing. There is a loctite product for cylindrical fit, the bearing to case fit is most likely a bit loose.

Just a new two rubber seal bearing with the seal pryed off is what I do at the countershaft upon re-assembly. I have made my own adapters to standard puller of the type with two an three slots. and made other things which I could point to pictures if you really want.

The crank stub is worn at the seal seating surface not the taper less than ideal. The seal on the other side is kind of different in that it doesn't seal against air. Unfortunately the whole think can kind of wear out at sort of similar usage and the rod bearing may not be too far from failure, Look at the starting gears on the rear of the clutch and look closely at the third gear on the input shaft on your spare cluster.

Yes, I'll check the frame, for worn bolt holes. The countershaft, is very loose, in the ID of bearing. This is the second time, I had trouble with a loose shaft. Forrest put a new shaft in, about seven years ago.

 

[rsmell@sbcglobal.net]

Due to various issues, I delayed taking the cases apart; however, they are apart now. I made a case puller, and it worked fine. I'm using a countershaft, bought from a Café Husky member awhile back (thank you), and I now need a source, for this countershaft bearing: 6205 RD. Additionally, does any one have a source, for a crank gear puller? While the cases are apart, I thought I would put in a new clutch side seal.

I still have the case's countershaft side, rear bushing/insert problem. The cases are egg-shaped, and the major OD is 0.830". I live, about an hour-and-a-half, form Forest Stahl. I could take this problem there; however, I would like to fix it myself. I know how I can fix it, buy a 2016 TE 300! At ready-to-turn 58, time is running out.

 

[fran...k.]

6205 RD If that is what is originally there,
Is essentially just a 2 rubber sealed bearing with one seal pried off. Just a 6205 2rs in whatever brand and country of origin you feel like. (A C3 rated one) There are two of them on the crank drive side with no seals or shields, one we are discussing, and one (no seals) with a ring cut into the outer diameter behind the clutch.

Leaving that inner seal on and packing the bearing with grease could be a topic for discussion. I have commented lately about the rear inserts.

 

[rsmell@sbcglobal.net]

The CS bearing, which had been in there for about 7 years of Ohio trail riding, had both seals in it. The CS, was replaced by Forest, at his shop in Indiana. I found a 6205 2RS C3, at this place: intechbearing.com/products/6205-2rs-skf-sealed-radial-ball-bearing, and the cost is $8.50.

 

[2premo]

Due to various issues, I delayed taking the cases apart; however, they are apart now. I made a case puller, and it worked fine. I'm using a countershaft, bought from a Café Husky member awhile back (thank you), and I now need a source, for this countershaft bearing: 6205 RD. Additionally, does any one have a source, for a crank gear puller? While the cases are apart, I thought I would put in a new clutch side seal.

I still have the case's countershaft side, rear bushing/insert problem. The cases are egg-shaped, and the major OD is 0.830". I live, about an hour-and-a-half, form Forest Stahl. I could take this problem there; however, I would like to fix it myself. I know how I can fix it, buy a 2016 TE 300! At ready-to-turn 58, time is running out.

when you say egg shaped you mean where the bushings go in to support the swing arm pivot
as in the bushings are loose

 

[rsmell@sbcglobal.net]

Yes, it's egg-shaped, with the major dia. at 0.830 (front to back), and the minor dia. at 0.805 (up & down). The bushing's OD is 0.783. Boring and reaming, would fix it; however, it can't be bored all the way though, due the case locating dowel. I should have more time this coming week, to call Forest Stahl. And a reminder, that the first Supercross, is tomorrow night!

 

[2premo]

I would recommend replacing the cases

 

[Up-tite]

Yes, it's egg-shaped, with the major dia. at 0.830 (front to back), and the minor dia. at 0.805 (up & down). The bushing's OD is 0.783. Boring and reaming, would fix it; however, it can't be bored all the way though, due the case locating dowel. I should have more time this coming week, to call Forest Stahl. And a reminder, that the first Supercross, is tomorrow night!

Case locating dowel comes out.
Make holes round.
Make new case sleeves.
Simple.
Later George

 

[2premo]

Case locating dowel comes out.
Make holes round.
Make new case sleeves.
Simple.
Later George

hahahaha
that's too easy
leave the dowel in an do some elaborate thing instead,,,,NOT
George is right,,, oh yeah he has been there and done that
there was another thread recently on this subject

 

[rsmell@sbcglobal.net]

hahahaha

that's too easy

leave the dowel in an do some elaborate thing instead,,,,NOT

George is right,,, oh yeah he has been there and done that

there was another thread recently on this subject

The case locating dowel, is in the clutch side case, and the bushing/insert is tight. I don't believe, that this case needs any rework.

I'm going to ask Forrest, if the ignition side case, can be bored almost to the center, to leave the original dia., for the case locating bushing. The case should then be bored, until the hole is round, then a new bushing, can be made.

 

[Up-tite]

The CS bearing, which had been in there for about 7 years of Ohio trail riding, had both seals in it. The CS, was replaced by Forest, at his shop in Indiana. I found a 6205 2RS C3, at this place: intechbearing.com/products/6205-2rs-skf-sealed-radial-ball-bearing, and the cost is $8.50.

Why would you put a bearing that is that cheap in your motor.
85% of the bearings sold in this are counterfit Chinese.
A true skf 6205/2rs 30 years ago wasn't that cheap.
Later George

 

[2premo]

Why would you put a bearing that is that cheap in your motor.
85% of the bearings sold in this are counterfit Chinese.
A true skf 6205/2rs 30 years ago wasn't that cheap.
Later George

it is true in that you get what you pay for